Questions Re House Pre-wiring For Audio/data

[Guest howie8599]

hi guys, i am currently building a new house and have a dedicated ht room as part of the plans. lamenting loose cabling and not wanting to get into extreme cable management, im looking at getting the house pre-wired for all my audio/data requirements and hopefully by doing so perhaps future proof and allow for home automation further down the track....

in the mean time though, i was just wondering what kind of prices i can expect and which businesses people have had experience with and can recommend? i am in melbourne and have had discussions with a few stores and am planning to use either a 2nd zone avr such as the 3808 or am even contemplating an entirely seperate system for the ht room and getting a pure audio system for the living areas. this would involve in roof speakers etc. ive also had advice to check out systems like sonos etc, but im wondering if the money spent there could be spent installing a hard-wired system that is just as flexible...

any thoughts would be much appreciated!! construction should be complete in march next year, cant wait!!

cheers

howard

[Spearmint]

First off congratulations on the new house and particularly a dedicated room, secondly I’d be checking with the builder to ensure they’ll allow other contractors on site during construction.

IMO you are far better off installing plenty of data, and RF cables during construction, this then allows a more flexible setup after you move in. In my experience you need to live in a house for some time to get the feel of what you want and are going to need for audio/video/data/phones etc. Covering as many bases up front makes the implementation of these devices easier once you decide on what it is you require. Sure if you have the dosh, install all the hardware upfront that you feel you’ll need and use, but in my experience some of it may not get used.

Another thing to consider when installing structured cabling is it’ll need terminating somewhere, and depending on where you decide and what you use this can cost a few pennies.

[brodricj]

I have a wireless network at home, you can DIY and that solves all your data requirements. Regarding HT, pre-wiring that will potentially cost you plenty and it will never be right first go. Just runs conduits to where they need to go and sort it out later. If you can afford the Kaleidescape system go for that, it all runs on cat5 and that is easy to do and very cheap to wire up. For the electrics have a dedicated 15 amp circuit to the HT room. If you want to do the smart wiring thing for home automation/lighting etc, CBUS is the way to go. That all runs on cat5 also and is easy to DIY wire up and much cheaper for wiring than the traditional way. But the CBUS hardware will cost you plenty if you buy at retail and will end up costing more than non-smart wired. But the power of CBUS for flexibility and convenience easily outweighs the additional cost. Your easiest and fail-safe wiring solution is a combination of wireless for internet, CBUS cat5 for automation and Kaleidescape cat5 for HT and zones, so basically you'll have one daisy chain of pink cat5 going around the house, and another of blue cat5. What you want to happen after that all becomes programmable in software. Very easy, and cheap.

[50mxe20]

hi guys, i am currently building a new house and have a dedicated ht room as part of the plans. lamenting loose

Just out of interest, what is the size of the dedicated HT?

Are you sound proofing?

Are you planning to have a PJ or just plasma, or both?

[byron1503559589]

cat5

I'd put in CAT5, I've 6 x CAT5e to each room.

1 for L+R audio + digital audio

1 for component

1 for data

3 for future things like HDMI and spare (in case I get a bad run).

B

[brodricj]

I'd put in CAT5, I've 6 x CAT5e to each room...

You might as well, it's just as quick and easy pulling 6 strings of cat5 off a roll/s as it is 1, and cheap, and there's no chance of ever running out of bandwidth!

[MACCA350]

Is there a reason not to use CAT6 cable?

cheers

[50mxe20]

Just more expensive?

[MACCA350]

Just more expensive?

Is there any useful bandwidth benefit?

Also roughly how much would one need for an average house? ie 300m, 1000m

cheers

[50mxe20]

Is there any useful bandwidth benefit?

Also roughly how much would one need for an average house? ie 300m, 1000m

cheers

Good questions?

Interested too.

[S2 13BT]

Is there a reason not to use CAT6 cable?

cheers

CAT6 is terminated to a much higher standard than CAT5e. I think technically, it needs to be done by trained people using very high quality tools, and to certain standards that are more stringent than lesser cable.

I don't think there's really a need in a home situation. It's good for structure cabling in a data center or something, but a bit overkill for sharing the broadband!

[Dogbert]

I read a while ago that it is a good idea to pay the extra to get 3 phase into your house and then dedicate one of the phases for the HT room so it is on its own circuit. That way it is isolated from the rest of the other electrical gear in the house. Not sure if this is just an urban myth but may be worth some investigation

[Shonky*]

At least go for Cat 5e rather than Cat 5 since although Gigabit ethernet (1000BASE-T) was designed for Cat 5, Cat 5e has better specs for crosstalk.

Cat 6 should also be suitable for 10Gigabit (10GBASE-T) if you want to look that far ahead.

[MACCA350]

At least go for Cat 5e rather than Cat 5 since although Gigabit ethernet (1000BASE-T) was designed for Cat 5, Cat 5e has better specs for crosstalk.

Cat 6 should also be suitable for 10Gigabit (10GBASE-T) if you want to look that far ahead.

How far ahead are we talking? Is there anything avaliable now or on the horizon that will require or use the extra bandwidth?

Any suggestions on this:

Also roughly how much would one need for an average house? ie 300m, 1000m

cheers

[Guest howie8599]

hi everyone, thanks heaps for your input. i will have a look into the kalediscope system as ive never heard of it. ive seen cbus in operation and its probably a bit much at the moment, but may be an option further down the road.

has anyone had any good experiences with installers in melbourne? ive been told not to use electricans as they aren't as up to speed with this sort of thing? im aware an electrician will be needed to complete the installation in terms of power, but is it best to use a specialist ht installer to do the data/audio wiring?

oh, im glad this cat 5/5e/6 has got people talking lol. good to see my noob questions being helpful to others lol

cheers

[Shonky*]

With respect to Cat6, it's merely said that Cat 6 *should* be OK for 10 GBASE-T. 10GBASE-T is only very new (2006 the standard was released). Only 1000BASE-T is starting to become the norm for home networking so there's probably 10 years of use in that.

The silicon (for 10GBASE-T) has only just become available i.e. routers/switches etc are pretty scare on the ground. 10GBASE-x is usually fibre. Consider that 1000BASE-T is capable of 50-100MB/sec of through put. That's >180GB an hour (think nearly 4 Blu-Ray dual layer discs)

Length is pretty dependent on the type of house you have of course. Also how many feeds per point starts to multiply things out a bit. Depends greatly on where your "centre" is. If designing a house from scratch consider a closet or something near the centre from the house and have your main switch there with a patch panel and a star arrangement out to each point in individual rooms.

Personally I think 2 or 3 runs per point is probably enough for most purposes. Maybe a few extra for the HT or office for things like phones etc (where Cat5e is plenty)

[50mxe20]

hi everyone, thanks heaps for your input.

Just out of interest, what is the size of the dedicated HT?

Are you sound proofing?

Are you planning to have a PJ or just plasma, or both?

[MACCA350]

With respect to Cat6, it's merely said that Cat 6 *should* be OK for 10 GBASE-T. 10GBASE-T is only very new (2006 the standard was released). Only 1000BASE-T is starting to become the norm for home networking so there's probably 10 years of use in that.

The silicon (for 10GBASE-T) has only just become available i.e. routers/switches etc are pretty scare on the ground. 10GBASE-x is usually fibre. Consider that 1000BASE-T is capable of 50-100MB/sec of through put. That's >180GB an hour (think nearly 4 Blu-Ray dual layer discs)

Length is pretty dependent on the type of house you have of course. Also how many feeds per point starts to multiply things out a bit. Depends greatly on where your "centre" is. If designing a house from scratch consider a closet or something near the centre from the house and have your main switch there with a patch panel and a star arrangement out to each point in individual rooms.

Personally I think 2 or 3 runs per point is probably enough for most purposes. Maybe a few extra for the HT or office for things like phones etc (where Cat5e is plenty)

So if one is planning to build a house to live in for the next 30+ years, would it be advisable to run Cat6?

I mean what kind of additional cost over Cat5e are we talking about here? $1000 extra for an average house?

cheers

[Shonky*]

Wouldn't be that nearly that much. In 30 years I'd say Cat 5/5e/6 would be obsolete anyway I'd say wireless will have largely taken over.

Here you go - Jaycar prices:

100m roll of Cat 5 at Jaycar $85

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=WB2022

100m roll of Cat 6 at Jaycar $135

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=WB2030

I'd say 2-300m for a house would be ample so it's only ~$150 extra

If you know someone in the business, you can probably get it cheaper. Wholesale price on the above is $65 and $96 respectively. You just need an account with Jaycar's wholesaler Electus.

For that kind of difference just get the Cat 6.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Shonky*

[MACCA350]

Thanks for that Shonky, there is also a guy on Ebay that sells a 305m roll of Cat6 for $227 shipped although I don't need it just yet. Can you get different coloured shielding?

Also anyone know of a site that runs though some good suggestions on the where and how to run the cables. I'm assuming a run to most rooms for Internet/Network connection(with probably an extra run(or two) for future use, ie HDMI), a run to all the light switches and heating/cooling for CBUS or similar. The more I think about it the more complex it becomes

cheers

[MACCA350]

hi everyone, thanks heaps for your input. i will have a look into the kalediscope system as ive never heard of it. ive seen cbus in operation and its probably a bit much at the moment, but may be an option further down the road.

has anyone had any good experiences with installers in melbourne? ive been told not to use electricans as they aren't as up to speed with this sort of thing? im aware an electrician will be needed to complete the installation in terms of power, but is it best to use a specialist ht installer to do the data/audio wiring?

oh, im glad this cat 5/5e/6 has got people talking lol. good to see my noob questions being helpful to others lol

cheers

Although I've never used their automation services, Clef HiFi do home automation and installation, not sure what system the use though

btw have you got a link for that kaleidoscope system....I can't find it through google

cheers

[tb1231503560936]

we just built a new house and put 500m of Cat5e into it, 2 points to most rooms and 4 to the HT and Study wired back to a patch panel and switch in our store room. Cost wasn't an issue as all hardware was sourced from work . We also have a wireless network that we use.

Whether it be Cat5e or Cat6, there are some pretty specific installation requirements and testing to be done before it can be "certified" as such. Most household installs being discussed on these forums (including mine) would be far from a certifiable installation and in most cases are just using the appropriate sockets, cable and terminations, in some cases not even that (mix and match etc) but it gets the job done.

who knows what will be adequate in a few years from now, you may as well just run optic fibre to each room....

[MACCA350]

who knows what will be adequate in a few years from now, you may as well just run optic fibre to each room....

How much would that cost? <------serious question

Even if it is cost effective to run fibre optic(or if one decided to do so), can any of the systems mentioned use it as a transmission medium?

Is it a viable option or not worth even thinking about?

cheers

[tb1231503560936]

re optic fibre- the comment was more tongue in cheek than anything.

I dont know what the cost would be, but fairly sure it would be prohibitive for most of us in a domestic environment, although anything is possible if you have the cash. Don't really know what you would be able to use all the bandwidth for at this point in time, although I'm sure something will come along down the track that may use it. Who knows, a terrabyte may be the equivalent of a kilobyte in todays terms as technology progresses.

Optic fibre is generally used as backbone transmission medium in larger corporate installations (between buildings or floors) to carry massive amounts of data.

I believe some new housing estates may be running optic fibre to each house to provide a range of broadband solutions including TV etc. I know there was a new "green" estate near us that was meant to be going down that path, not sure how it turned out though.

Other than that, it's generally in the realm of higher end data and telecommunication networks.

[MACCA350]

re optic fibre- the comment was more tongue in cheek than anything.

I dont know what the cost would be, but fairly sure it would be prohibitive for most of us in a domestic environment, although anything is possible if you have the cash. Don't really know what you would be able to use all the bandwidth for at this point in time, although I'm sure something will come along down the track that may use it. Who knows, a terrabyte may be the equivalent of a kilobyte in todays terms as technology progresses.

Optic fibre is generally used as backbone transmission medium in larger corporate installations (between buildings or floors) to carry massive amounts of data.

I believe some new housing estates may be running optic fibre to each house to provide a range of broadband solutions including TV etc. I know there was a new "green" estate near us that was meant to be going down that path, not sure how it turned out though.

Other than that, it's generally in the realm of higher end data and telecommunication networks.

I thought that may have been the case, but you never know if you don't ask the question

Just the other week we were looking at a new estate in Doreen which has Telstra Velocity that uses a Fibre Optic connection to every house in the estate which carries Internet/Telephone/Foxtel/FTA Digital TV. Only problem is that Telstra has a clause which apparently prohibits the developers from running any other cable into the estate, which means every house in there is stuck with using Telstra for all those hard wired utilities(unless they use wireless, ie 3G or similar)for life, and I've heard the connection goes down quite often and sometimes for 3-7days ...........as you can imagine I'm staying clear

cheers