Dtv Reception Issues?

[cliffo]

Hi All,

Is anyone else having reception issues from Sugarloaf atm?

I'm in Charlestown and all channels apart from Prime are breaking up.

cliffo

[ozymozzy]

I'm on the western side of the lake and have not experienced any reception problems from Sugarloaf over the last two to three hours.

[Arron]

i cant get abc

[RF Burns]

i cant get ABC

Arron,

You haven't answered my last post http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...t&p=1167409 yet, so I can't help you get the ABC any further.

As I've stated, if you're using the Wyong translator you probably won't be able to get ABC Digital because of the SFN issues I've mentioned (had a job at Warners Bay last week with this problem), but you shouldn't have any problems with ABC Analogue.

I think you have a problem with your Plasma's tuner.

There is definitely nothing wrong with any of the Mt Sugarloaf transmissions. Including the ABC digital or Analogue.

Cheers

GlennP.

[BigMat]

Ive got the same problem With my Plasma tuner, No ABC 1, ABC2, ABC HD or ABC Dig radio. works fine on the set top box with outside antenna. Plasma has indoor antenna, It was fine until last week. SBS has lost sound on all SBS channels on the set top box, works fine on plasma. In Mount Hutton, no line of site to Sugarloaf or Kotara

[mtv]

ABC has been making some transmission changes, which some tuners haven't worked with automatically.

Try doing a factory default reset on your tuner, then re-scan the channels.

[BigMat]

ABC has been making some transmission changes, which some tuners haven't worked with automatically.

Try doing a factory default reset on your tuner, then re-scan the channels.

Thanks Col, tried it and now both tvs are working perfectly

Mat

[lesftv]

ABC has been making some transmission changes, which some tuners haven't worked with automatically.

Try doing a factory default reset on your tuner, then re-scan the channels.

Sorry, but I thought is was SBS which changed its transport stream a week ago.

Edited November 1, 2008 by lesftv

[mtv]

Sorry, but I thought is was SBS which changed its transport stream a week ago.

Les,

Can't confirm what SBS did up your way, but ABC definitely made changes (in a lot of areas).

[Big AL]

Channels 7,9and now 10 having been breaking up ie. no signal for a second or two for ages now and I'm in Gorokan using two HD STBs on different HD tvs. The signal use to be perfect 6 months ago and is now getting worse. There is nothing wrong with STBs or the antennae as they have been good for the previous 18 months. Somethings wrong at Mt Sugarloaf.

Big AL

Les,

Can't confirm what SBS did up your way, but ABC definitely made changes (in a lot of areas).

[Rhys Palmer]

Hi guys ... I'm hoping someone out there can help me.

I live in a particularly bad area for digital reception ... Lambton Gardens because of the huge number of trees. My reception can be good sometimes and then other times it is constantly breaking up ... sometimes there is no signal at all (usually Ch.10) Now having lived here for some time I have noticed that with every STB I purchase it is OK for a while then progressively becomes more unreliable i.e. the disruption to the picture seems to become more frequent and more pronounced. Is it possible that this constant pixeling and breaking up of both video and audio has a degenerative effect on the STB components and over time affects its performance? Or am I crazy ... haha? I currently have a SD Phoenix JT3300A which was recommended for areas of poor reception. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Rhys.

[alanh]

Rhys,

You cannot be helped unless you describe your antenna system.

Scaled drawing including dimensions on page 1 will help.

Is your antenna designed to receive (NBN3 & ABHN5A analog)?

Do you have a masthead amplifier

Is your antenna pointed at Mt Sugarloaf or Centenary Lookout Kotara?

AlanH

[Rhys Palmer]

Rhys,

You cannot be helped unless you describe your antenna system.

Scaled drawing including dimensions on page 1 will help.

Is your antenna designed to receive (NBN3 & ABHN5A analog)?

Do you have a masthead amplifier

Is your antenna pointed at Mt Sugarloaf or Centenary Lookout Kotara?

AlanH

Alan,

The antenna is a phased array (relatively new installation ... about 18 months). There is a masthead amplifier and the antenna is pointed to Sugarloaf.

Rhys

Edited December 11, 2008 by Rhys Palmer

[alanh]

Rhys,

I would have suggested such an antenna and may be an amplifier.

Is the problem worst when the trees are wet? The problem may also vary from season to season.

I do not know the terrain from your place, to Kotara, but if it is tree free in may be worth a go.

The best option is to get one of the antenna installers who post on this site to check it out with a digital meter which can measure the signal errors. A small change in position or height may make all the difference.

AlanH

[Rhys Palmer]

Thanks Alan ... I will definitely get someone to check the antenna position - unfortunately pointing to Kotara is not an option due to a very large hill!. The line to Sugarloaf is a wall of trees - and yes sometimes dew, rain and at other times wind greatly affect the reception. But is it possible the constant breaking up of the digital signal damages the STB components and therefore contributes to the poor reception over time?

Thanks

Rhys

[alanh]

Rhys,

You need to to get the measurements done when reception is bad.

As for life, just ensure that the receiver has unblocked air flow. Does the case get hot? If so and particularly if it is in an enclosed space a small fan would be a good idea. Usually it is the heat which kills the electronics, and more is generated inside the ICs when there is lots of errors.

AlanH

[Guest DigiPeter]

Hi.

I live at Kurri and i've got a standard STB now SBS & ABC get a strong siganl around 88% ,Qly 97% but 3, prime and 10 are all low only getting 1% siganl, but Qly most times is 87%.

But they tend to brake up and the sound plays up now and then, so is there a problem with the signal coming from sugarloaf for 3, prime & 10.

My antenna is a hills TCX16WB about 2M above the roof with new coax no amp, pointed at sugarloaf.

Any ideas, do i need a bigger antenna or is it just the transmitters, or am i to far away.

pete.

Edited January 3, 2009 by DigiPeter

[alanh]

Peter,

You are only 8 km from the transmitters with a clear path. Your problem may be that the signal is too strong. Go to an electronics shop and buy an attenuator. Plug it into the antenna input of the receiver and the cable from the wall.

Alanh

[Guest DigiPeter]

Peter,

You are only 8 km from the transmitters with a clear path. Your problem may be that the signal is too strong. Go to an electronics shop and buy an attenuator. Plug it into the antenna input of the receiver and the cable from the wall.

Alanh

Hi Alanh.

That sounds strange when i'm only getting 1% signal strength on 3,7,10 but 80%+ on ABC & SBS.

But i'll have a look at Dicks to see if they have them next week.

thanks anyway.

pete.

[RF Burns]

Hi Alanh.

That sounds strange when i'm only getting 1% signal strength on 3,7,10 but 80%+ on ABC & SBS.

But i'll have a look at Dicks to see if they have them next week.

thanks anyway.

pete.

Pete,

It's hard to say without measuring the signals with a proper signal meter. The one you're using on the STB means absolutely nothing, they are a very rough guide, but a different STB will give you different readings (even one of the same brand & model).

With digital, too strong of a signal gives the same impression as too weak a signal, you're not alone most people don't know or understand this. There has been quite a few non-installers in these forums with similar readings/problems in the past, go out & get a bigger antenna & or amplifier only to find they've made it worse.

The thing that's strange to me & why I can't figure out is ABC on channel 37 & SBS on channel 38 are ok but you're having trouble with NBN on channel 36, these three all share the same TX antenna on the same tower at Mt Sugarloaf. Prime on channel 53 & SC10 on channel 51 share the same TX antenna on the other tower at Mt Sugarloaf, but again you shouldn't have a problem with this using a wide band antenna ch 28-69. A Hills TMX16WB antenna would possibly be better as these were made for digital & have a f-type balun connection, the TCX16WB antenna was the old analogue range & has a screw saddle type balun connection, that can corrode, get spiders living in it & generally make a poor connection inducing interference & signal loss after a bit of weathering.

Without having proper digital signal measurements & the problem with an adjacent channel & channels either side of 2 good ones, I'd say it's plausible there's a problem/fault with your STB.

With 1 wide band UHF antenna at Kurri, because all signals come from the same spot at the same transmitted power (Prime excluded as they are slightly lower power) your received signals should be quite balanced & be within 1-2 dBuV of each other, so if you had too strong a signal causing overloading you would have the same problems on all channels & in fact Prime would be your best channel with least problems not one of your worst.

Cheers

GlennP.

[alanh]

GlennP,

He is only 8 km from the transmitters with a path with no obstructions and a high gain antenna. I agree that measurement is the way go, however in the meantime I suggest that the receiver is overloaded.

AlanH

[RF Burns]

GlennP,

He is only 8 km from the transmitters with a path with no obstructions and a high gain antenna. I agree that measurement is the way go, however in the meantime I suggest that the receiver is overloaded.

AlanH

Alan,

As you're not from around here, I'll let you in on a few site details. Distance from Mt Sugarloaf is approx 10km (now I'm just being picky, 2km is neither here nor there). How do you know he has no obstructions? Kurri is a hilly area, the main street runs along the top of a hill.

You'd better go back & look at your Hills catalogue too, his antenna is the smallest & lowest gain antenna in the TCX range, he could go a smaller, lower gain antenna if he went to the TMX range (TMX12B4), but that's a band 4 antenna & isn't suitible for use at Kurri. For a UHF only antenna in the Hills range a TCX16WB (what he has) or a TMX16WB are the lowest gain antennas available, in the Matchmaster range a 02MM-DR12 (same gain as Hills TMX16WB) is the lowest available. If he wants lower gain, it's back to rabbit ears I'm afraid.

If the receiver is overloaded (which it may well be), why is he having problems with channels 36, 51 & 53, but not 37 & 38?

I guarantee you, the signals from Mt Sugarloaf are extremely well balanced & with no obstructions, direct line of site channels 36, 37, 38 & 51 will be identical in levels with Prime on channel 53 being 2dBuV lower because of their licence power restriction. If his receiver was overloaded wouldn't Prime on channel 53 be his best & possibly his only working channel?

Cheers

Glenn.

[alanh]

GlennP,

I did a path plot from the centre of Kurri to Mt Sugarloaf. This plot gives a cross section of the earth under the path or over it for that matter. It also gives the length and the direction.

If I had his address I could have been more accurate.

The ABC on channel 37 is supposed to be half the power of the commercials and SBS. I do not know if this is true. If it is and SBS is also half power it would explain it. After all we are talking about half a megawatt effective radiating power!

Please read Antenna info

AlanH

[RF Burns]

GlennP,

The ABC on channel 37 is supposed to be half the power of the commercials and SBS. I do not know if this is true. If it is and SBS is also half power it would explain it. After all we are talking about half a megawatt effective radiating power!

Please read Antenna info

AlanH

Alan,

Where do you keep coming up with these sort of details from?

You have been told numerous times by me & other local installers about our TX powers, directionality & various site details around town, yet you still know better, being on the other side of the country & never been to/seen many of the places you incorrectly comment about.

Here's the Mt Sugarloaf information again, print it out & put it in your file so you don't lose it.

Both UHF TX antenna's, 1 on the NBN tower & 1 on the Broadcast Australia tower are 5 sided horizontally polarised omni-directional arrays (made by RFS Melbourne if you really want to know), the one on the NBN tower is a Band 4 array for channels 36, 37, 38 & the one on the BA tower is a Band 5 array for channels 51, 53 & the UHF analogue channels (45, 48, 54 & 57).

I was there when they installed the new array on the NBN tower & have had these details (as well as following details) confirmed to me by NBN & Prime engineers. Lesftv can probably confirm these too from ABC & SBS engineers.

I'm unsure of the actual ERP but will confirm when I can, below are licence details & conditions.

NBN Channel 36 - 500 kW Directional, 250 kW in Sector 80-240 degrees

ABC Channel 37 - 250 Kw Omni-Directional

SBS Channel 38 - Same as NBN

SC Ten Channel 51 - Same as NBN

Prime Channel 53 - Same as NBN (temp licence restriction to 100 kW in sector 190-220 degrees to protect Illawarra service).

As the antenna arrays are omni-directional, directional licensed services are reduced to lowest licensed power in all directions.

i.e. NBN, SBS, SC Ten = 250 kW in all directions, Prime 100 kW in all directions.

Which makes all but Prime exactly the same in all directions. These licence details & conditions have been in place since they started broadcasting. This is what the local installers work with/to, as you can see reading details off the internet doesn't always give you the correct information, which then makes your theories wrong & you give others incorrect information that sometimes may make things worse than what they have.

As I said in my previous post, the Mt Sugarloaf signals are extremely well balanced, & from almost anywhere around Newcastle with no obstructions & a direct line of site to Mt Sugarloaf using a good quality wide band UHF antenna. A professional signal meter will give identical signal strength results across the board (except Prime which is 2-3dBuV lower), signal quality can vary due to local interferences.

Why do I have to read Antenna Info what new found wisdom am I going to find?

With that knowledge, why is Pete's ABC & SBS good & not the others?

Why if Pete's problem is in fact caused by tuner overload, is Prime one of his worst channels & not his best?

Cheers

Glenn.

[alanh]

GlennP,

Thanks for the info,

We will have to wait and see what happens when Pete inserts an attenuator and reposts.

How an overloaded receiver if it is that reacts. It may be determined by its PCB, AGC characteristics and how the RF transistors react to the effects of the bias across the transistor and internal capacitance.

So I suppose we will have to just wait and see.

AlanH