How Much Would You Pay For An Audio Cable

[AlxM]

No, I am not looking to start a debate about cables. Hoping you will laugh as much as I did.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tara-Labs-The-Zero-1-M...id=p3286.c0.m14

I was initially shocked but after finding more info (google) about the author of the 'review' I have been thoroughly entertained.

Edited September 11, 2008 by AlxM

[michaeljayc]

I would love to challenge the purchaser of that cable to a blind test.

I wonder if they could tell the difference between their $3K+ vacuum cable and a $20 Dick Smith one...

Michael.

[AndrewW]

lol

[jayweb]

I think I counted 6 fools in that bidding list........

[Juicester]

in answer to the original question - the most i'd spend is what i've spent already. About $180 - and that was for one interconnect (Chord Cobra 3) and 7metres of Chord Silver Screen speakers cable. The stereophile review is pretty convincing though.

"That one stupid interconnect had completely transformed not only the sound of that recording, but my expectations of how close the playback of recorded music could come to live music. I understand that all of the cable in the chain, from the recording gear in Kingsway Hall to Bernie Grundman's mastering room, was not this new interconnect. I understand any skepticism about how one piece of wire could so dramatically alter the sound of an audio system. But it did. "

He goes on to say it's a ridiculous expense - but for those that can afford it, it's worth it. I'll NEVER hear a system use these cables, so i don't really feel in a position to say that it's snake oil. More to the point, I'll never own a system that is good enough to make use of such a high end cable. But there may be more to this cable than we give credit.

Edited September 11, 2008 by jcjuice

[Jeffie1503561482]

He goes on to say it's a ridiculous expense - but for those that can afford it, it's worth it. I'll NEVER hear a system use these cables, so i don't really feel in a position to say that it's snake oil. More to the point, I'll never own a system that is good enough to make use of such a high end cable. But there may be more to this cable than we give credit.

Exactly. if you had components each worth 5 figures to hook up, you wouldnt think the price was that big a deal (what it went for that is)

[dantan]

Exactly. if you had components each worth 5 figures to hook up, you wouldnt think the price was that big a deal (what it went for that is)

Agree with you, mate.

I have always said that cables are like tyres for cars. Sure, any cable will do the job, as in pass signals through, etc, just like any tyre will go round, but when you have a high-performance car, you will need a high-performance tyre to maximise its potential, otherwise, the car will just end up wheel-spinning out of control each time you put your foot down on the throttle.

I have been able to pick fairly substantial improvements while using better cables. I have been extremely happy with cables from The Chord Company.

At the moment, I am waiting on 8 pairs of The Chord Company Epic Twin (RRP is $140.00 per metre, or thereabouts. I know many will laugh at me, and think I am an idiot for spending that much money on speaker cables, but I know they are considerably better than far cheaper cables), and I have the Epic Super Twin (bi-wire version of the Twin), The Chord Company Crimson interconnects from my A/V Receiver to my NAD M25 power amplifier, The Chord Company Cobra 3 analogue interconnect from my A/V Receiver to my CD Player, etc. My cables have cost me thousands of dollars, but I have no regrets because I have had a lot of the same equipment running on much cheaper cables and my system did not sound as good as it sounds now.

[Juicester]

you should buy a good preamp with all that money too dantan!

I'm sure $2000 of good preamp would make a better improvement than cables...

(by the way, you're upgrading your CD player... does that mean you're going to sell it? If it's black - I'm interested.)

[Adinfinitum]

I agree in having decent interconnects, particularly analogue audio but NOTHING can convince me, no matter how high-end my system, that 14K, even 3K wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. For that matter, 3K would buy an AAAWWWFUUUUULLLLL lot of CD's and DVDs to just enjoy the systems I have.

[dantan]

you should buy a good preamp with all that money too dantan!

I'm sure $2000 of good preamp would make a better improvement than cables...

(by the way, you're upgrading your CD player... does that mean you're going to sell it? If it's black - I'm interested.)

I am saving up and waiting on the new NAD M15HD, although it looks like it is going to retail for about US$4,500.00, which means I have to start saving now! Otherwise, maybe a Rotel RSP-1570.

I have ordered a Cyrus CD 8 SE, and it should hopefully arrive tomorrow, otherwise, early next week.

And, yes, I shall be looking to sell my BLACK Marantz CD6002, which I have owned for only about 10 weeks, and is in mint condition. Whereabouts are you?

Dan.

[Juicester]

I'm in Melbourne - judging by you're support of the dockers, i guess your a W.A man...

I'd still consider freight for the right price. Though since you're upgrading it makes me wonder wether i should save for the Cyrus too..... could it be that much better?! The marantz has had a pretty good wrap from all accounts.

[dantan]

I'm in Melbourne - judging by you're support of the dockers, i guess your a W.A man...

I'd still consider freight for the right price. Though since you're upgrading it makes me wonder wether i should save for the Cyrus too..... could it be that much better?! The marantz has had a pretty good wrap from all accounts.

The Marantz CD6002 is a really good CD Player for the money. RRP is $799.00. I paid $650.00 in cash after haggling heaps. I had to pay for it in cash, in order to get it at $650.00.

The Cyrus CD 8 SE is many leagues ahead. Saying that, it is a $3,500.00 CD Player against an $800.00 CD Player. Like most things hi-fi, it's a law of diminishing return, so it is not 4.375 times BETTER (it is not possibly to quantify mathematically sound quality or enjoyment level, anyway), but for me, it is that much better that I got blown away and thought, stuff it, bite the bullet, buy one.

Cyrus is a small specialist company based in England. As far as I am aware, all their amplifiers, CD Players, etc, are all built in England.

The new Servo Evolution (SE) range has their own in-house transport system. Cyrus uses die-cast magnesium for the chassis of its CD Players, amplifiers, etc.

Anyway, I do not know how much freight will cost to get to you, but I am willing to sell my CD6002 to you for $400.00, plus whatever the freight cost is.

[corza13]

Agree with you, mate.

I have always said that cables are like tyres for cars. Sure, any cable will do the job, as in pass signals through, etc, just like any tyre will go round, but when you have a high-performance car, you will need a high-performance tyre to maximise its potential, otherwise, the car will just end up wheel-spinning out of control each time you put your foot down on the throttle.

I have been able to pick fairly substantial improvements while using better cables. I have been extremely happy with cables from The Chord Company.

At the moment, I am waiting on 8 pairs of The Chord Company Epic Twin (RRP is $140.00 per metre, or thereabouts. I know many will laugh at me, and think I am an idiot for spending that much money on speaker cables, but I know they are considerably better than far cheaper cables), and I have the Epic Super Twin (bi-wire version of the Twin), The Chord Company Crimson interconnects from my A/V Receiver to my NAD M25 power amplifier, The Chord Company Cobra 3 analogue interconnect from my A/V Receiver to my CD Player, etc. My cables have cost me thousands of dollars, but I have no regrets because I have had a lot of the same equipment running on much cheaper cables and my system did not sound as good as it sounds now.

Dantan,

I have just installed Chord Company Chameleon Silver plus interconnects between Onkyo and Elektra, a very worthwhile upgrade I think you could consider over the Crimsons

[joz]

I wonder how many people would consider DIY for I/Cs.

I mean for between $50-200 very little comercial stuff competes..

And if you really want some bling connectors go further and get either Eichman or WBT Nextgens.

Chuck on some quality Beldon or Canare cable and Robs your dad bro

Sure there's maybe not much marketing spiel or lots of glossy text but!

But really <$50 should be ample.

Edited September 11, 2008 by the joz

[Guest Kim Jong II]

No, I am not looking to start a debate about cables. Hoping you will laugh as much as I did.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tara-Labs-The-Zero-1-M...id=p3286.c0.m14

I was initially shocked but after finding more info (google) about the author of the 'review' I have been thoroughly entertained.

Kim Jong II says "I buy this to run from mono VCR to mono TV, good quality cable hia"

Edited September 11, 2008 by Kim Jong II

[markus461503561824]

Check out this discussion of i/c's with a liquid conductor. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/teoaudio/liquid.html

"A 1-meter Liquid Cable interconnect pair is $2,398... By the time you need 3 meters as I do now from preamp to amp, the bell tolls at $6,714. Which, last time I checked, only got you a 1-meter Stealth Indra. The balanced version starts at $3,500/pr and a 3-meter run would be $9,800. Digital is $1,299 for a 1-meter, $3,639 for a 3-meter RCA, $1,850/$5,181 for XLR respectively. Now comes the accelerated section. A 2.5-meter speaker pair (close to the ubiquitous 8-footer run) is $14,990. A 4-meter pair goes for $23,990, the price of a very fine used car and a quite respectable brand new one."

Amazing!

[DrP]

I thought I'd seen it all, but I guess what they say is true, there's one born every minute.

I wonder if dat.nguyen85 is interested in a bridge I have for sale.

I don't know if its my PC or not, but have a read under the 'Tara Zero Review' heading on the product page. Looks like the 900.00 is struck, meaning it normally sells for $14.

This cable currently sells for $14,900.00 and is offered here with no reserve winner take all.

Edited September 11, 2008 by DrP

[pietro1503559499]

in answer to the original question - the most i'd spend is what i've spent already. About $180 - and that was for one interconnect (Chord Cobra 3) and 7metres of Chord Silver Screen speakers cable. The stereophile review is pretty convincing though.

"That one stupid interconnect had completely transformed not only the sound of that recording, but my expectations of how close the playback of recorded music could come to live music. I understand that all of the cable in the chain, from the recording gear in Kingsway Hall to Bernie Grundman's mastering room, was not this new interconnect. I understand any skepticism about how one piece of wire could so dramatically alter the sound of an audio system. But it did. "

He goes on to say it's a ridiculous expense - but for those that can afford it, it's worth it. I'll NEVER hear a system use these cables, so i don't really feel in a position to say that it's snake oil. More to the point, I'll never own a system that is good enough to make use of such a high end cable. But there may be more to this cable than we give credit.

I'm prepared to pay for a good quality analogue cable, within reason. The best I can find for the Chord Cobra 3 is $215 delivered at Wicked Digital but you seem to have done much better than this. Do you mind telling me where you bought it?

[SlawMan]

I'm prepared to pay for a good quality analogue cable, within reason. The best I can find for the Chord Cobra 3 is $215 delivered at Wicked Digital but you seem to have done much better than this. Do you mind telling me where you bought it?

I would have to hear the difference to decide how much to pay. To date, I have been able to (just) hear the difference between the RCA cables that come included in the box and $50 ones. I tried $250 ones (can't remember the brand), but i couldn't hear it, so I took the missus to dinner on the difference.

I have not been able to see or hear the difference on HDMI, they seem to either work or not. Same with optical.

I have never heard the difference between speaker cable as long as the gauge is suitable for the power.

I understand sometimes you might pay for shielding which can be worthwhile but again I have never had any problems.

Sometimes people just like to have something expensive, not really caring how well it works. I guess that's why someone spends 3k on a cable??

[AlxM]

As I said to start the thread I am not looking to debate or argue. I just want to share my thoughts and experience.

I do have some high end gear costing many thousands of $$$$ but I would NOT spend this kind of money on cables. My background is Engineering and IT and I know from experience that quality cables DO matter. However there is a limit to what can be improved. Here my simplest explanation to this:

Has anyone opened up the inside of the unit to see what kind of cables or wires carry the signal (sound, video or data) from the outside connector to the relevant chip or component inside the unit? Often these are thinner than 20 AWG wire. Having opened up and checked the inside of many of these units, lets say I am very skeptical. What can indeed make a difference is the shielding on cables that keep interference out of the signal. When someone says 'this cable made a noticeable improvement', I DO believe them and the reason may be the cable's interference rejection properties more than any other factor. At any price what we want is to be with happy with our system and the sound right?. So don't worry about what ANYONE else thinks as long as you are happy regardless of what you paid for them.

See the following links for some guidelines and bench tests. There are numerous articles about cables that are well worth a read on that site.

http://www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/h...dget-guidelines

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cable...ble-bench-tests

I wonder how many people would consider DIY for I/Cs.

...

Chuck on some quality Beldon or Canare cable and Robs your dad bro

Sure there's maybe not much marketing spiel or lots of glossy text but!

But really <$50 should be ample.

I totally agree with 'the joz' and considering doing this myself. I am looking to buy Belden 8422 or 8412 (for analog audio interconnects) and 1694a (video and coax digital audio). These have all the necessary and 'correct properties' according to their specification sheets and quite economical to buy. I think they are sold in 30m rolls but only need 6m. Anyone interested in DIY? We can split the costs.

Try getting the actual specifications from other so called 'wonder cables'. Even the most basic specifications such as capacitance or inductance or anything useful for that matter are NEVER mentioned. They just go on with marketing jargon that have nothing to do with the intended application. This will NOT until people stop to paying for their marketing hype... which is never I guess...

PS: I sent this link to a friend and he replied "Does it have beer flavoured nipples or something?"

Edited September 12, 2008 by AlxM

[dantan]

Dantan,

I have just installed Chord Company Chameleon Silver plus interconnects between Onkyo and Elektra, a very worthwhile upgrade I think you could consider over the Crimsons

Mate!

Are you trying to bankrupt me?!

Hee hee.

I might consider it; I know it will improve things, but if I do so, I shall want to match the analogue interconnects from my CD Player to my Integra DTR7.8 (here's to waiting for the new NAD M15HD surround sound processor).

[joz]

As I said to start the thread I am not looking to debate or argue. I just want to share my thoughts and experience.

I do have some high end gear costing many thousands of $$$$ but I would NOT spend this kind of money on cables. My background is Engineering and IT and I know from experience that quality cables DO matter. However there is a limit to what can be improved. Here my simplest explanation to this:

Has anyone opened up the inside of the unit to see what kind of cables or wires carry the signal (sound, video or data) from the outside connector to the relevant chip or component inside the unit? Often these are thinner than 20 AWG wire. Having opened up and checked the inside of many of these units, lets say I am very skeptical. What can indeed make a difference is the shielding on cables that keep interference out of the signal. When someone says 'this cable made a noticeable improvement', I DO believe them and the reason may be the cable's interference rejection properties more than any other factor. At any price what we want is to be with happy with our system and the sound right?. So don't worry about what ANYONE else thinks as long as you are happy regardless of what you paid for them.

See the following links for some guidelines and bench tests. There are numerous articles about cables that are well worth a read on that site.

http://www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/h...dget-guidelines

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cable...ble-bench-tests

I totally agree with 'the joz' and considering doing this myself. I am looking to buy Belden 8422 or 8412 (for analog audio interconnects) and 1694a (video and coax digital audio). These have all the necessary and 'correct properties' according to their specification sheets and quite economical to buy. I think they are sold in 30m rolls but only need 6m. Anyone interested in DIY? We can split the costs.

Try getting the actual specifications from other so called 'wonder cables'. Even the most basic specifications such as capacitance or inductance or anything useful for that matter are NEVER mentioned. They just go on with marketing jargon that have nothing to do with the intended application. This will NOT until people stop to paying for their marketing hype... which is never I guess...

PS: I sent this link to a friend and he replied "Does it have beer flavoured nipples or something?"

The fact is it seems people feel more comfortable buying hype and marketing,at least they have something to show people even if the difference can't be heard.

So don't ever through out your brochures!!

Really people who want to believe should get together and test a few.

It's not hard to hear a $1/2/300 difference,at least it shouldn't.

But hey bring out a cable worth a second mortgage,now that should make the system invinsible..

Truly now I personaly have done a few comparos with diy vs commercial upto about $500.(not only with my diy but others aswell)

Yes they are different, but the price premium of up to 500% was not ever worth it.

Oh AlxM, really who'd be brave enough to buy esoteric cable and open it up for a look.

How gutted would you feel that its full of just plain wire

[AlxM]

Sorry Joz, I think you misunderstood what I said. I didn't mean for anyone to 'open up' their cables. Someone has just spent their entire daily wage (or weeks or months in some cases) and the last thing I am encouraging is cutting it up. Heaven forbid, NO.

I mean opening up a unit such as the DVD player or AV processor or amplifier or whatever that you are connecting together with these cables. You won't damage anything (if you are careful) and could learn some additional useful and valuable information about your equipment.

As I said I have opened up many of these units myself. So in the spirit of sharing here are some inside pictures of one the most expensive items I have ever opened up. It is the TAG McLaren DVD32R DVD player that was sold for over $10,000 when new. It was considered the 'world's best DVD video and CD audio transport' at the time. Even today it is highly regarded and still considered 'state-of-the-art' due to its very low noise and very low jitter digital transport technology (still not found on most high end players sold today).

http://dnamotorsport.com/TAG_McLaren/DVD32R.html

High end audio/video devices such as this are priced with very high markups. Even taking that into consideration you have to agree they don't need to skimp on anything and can afford to build them with absolute best components and cables needed. So, it may shock you to look inside and find regular ribbon type data cables (found inside every laptop) and regular 24-28 AWG cables carrying signals between components. Most devices such as this are designed and built with a 'factor of safety' in mind, so the components and cables used inside are still 'a factor X better than minimum specification' needed for the intended application.

As I said before seeing this type of evidence time and time again I am very skeptical of 'so called benefits' externally connected cables can provide. If anyone has such inside pictures of 'high end' devices they have opened up, please share them with us. Thanks.

[AlxM]

Oops, sorry double posted accidentally.

Mods, please delete this post if you can.

Edited September 15, 2008 by AlxM

[fawlty99]

So, it may shock you to look inside and find regular ribbon type data cables (found inside every laptop) and regular 24-28 AWG cables carrying signals between components. Most devices such as this are designed and built with a 'factor of safety' in mind, so the components and cables used inside are still 'a factor X better than minimum specification' needed for the intended application.

No they only look like regular ribbon cables! They are actually directionally aligned proton balanced cables with gyrismium couplings