Midrange Avr Or Midrange Speakers

[soupboy]

Hi there,

Have been reading ALOT of threads here over the last week or so as I'm about to delve into the area of sound other than my TV.

I can probably source $1500 easially but $2000 can be done with enough saving and waiting that little bit longer.

My problem is that I listen to music equally as to what I listen to movies/tv/gaming. I have 2 HTD 4.5 Turntables being output through my mixer which for the last 2 years has gone into an old Panasonic midi system and I'd like this to go through into the reciever.

Now I know that I should put at least 40% of my budget into my front speakers and as such was looking into getting some of the LSK F5 MKII's which for $899 plus postage would use up half my budget.

With the rest of the budget is it worth getting a cheaper Yamaha 363 or to spend the rest on getting a 636/onkyo 606/605.

I've sourced prices for importing from both Singapore and Hong Kong and the 663 would probably take me back $750 with postage and the same kind of prices for the onkyo 606.

Lastly as I'm looking for music aswell as surround should I forget buying anything at all as most recievers that I've looked at within these ranges aren't going to give me the quality of music I'm hoping to achieve and will be more surround focused.

Thankyou all in advance

[SHO]

Hi there,

Have been reading ALOT of threads here over the last week or so as I'm about to delve into the area of sound other than my TV.

I can probably source $1500 easially but $2000 can be done with enough saving and waiting that little bit longer.

My problem is that I listen to music equally as to what I listen to movies/tv/gaming. I have 2 HTD 4.5 Turntables being output through my mixer which for the last 2 years has gone into an old Panasonic midi system and I'd like this to go through into the reciever.

Now I know that I should put at least 40% of my budget into my front speakers and as such was looking into getting some of the LSK F5 MKII's which for $899 plus postage would use up half my budget.

With the rest of the budget is it worth getting a cheaper Yamaha 363 or to spend the rest on getting a 636/onkyo 606/605.

I've sourced prices for importing from both Singapore and Hong Kong and the 663 would probably take me back $750 with postage and the same kind of prices for the onkyo 606.

Lastly as I'm looking for music aswell as surround should I forget buying anything at all as most recievers that I've looked at within these ranges aren't going to give me the quality of music I'm hoping to achieve and will be more surround focused.

Thankyou all in advance

To be honest & up front i do not think the the two receiver's you have mentioned are going to provide you with a 'good enough' 2 channel sound as they are more aimed at the the home theatre market, however if that is what the budget allows for then i would opt for the Harman/Kardon AVR 255 or spend a little more & get the Pioneer LX50 the later i think has a Phono input.

Importing from OS, well i would not bother...no warranty is probally the main reason & the second is well you can purchase both the onkyo & the yamaha for not too much more within OZ ($800-$850 give or take)

[soupboy]

Phono input isn't needed as I'll be outputting from my mixer into the receiver. I've seen the Pioneer LX50 on ebay for around $1000 but was wondering whether its worth possibly getting the Pioneer vsx1018 as it seems to be in the same kind of range as the lx50 but is part of the new range and was quoted at $1099 without pushing at all.

[Jeffie1503561482]

Are you hoping to get good quality sound out of your DJ setup? Cos you wont. DJ carts. turntables, through a mixer for your phono stage? It would be way more limiting than 2 channel from an avr.

Importing to save a couple of hundred definitely isnt worth it.

Ive got an Ecler HAK 360 for sale if you want the best audio quality DJ mixer

[Adinfinitum]

Flat Earth Vs Round Earth -

Do I get good speakers with cheap amp or vice-versa? I personally subscribe to the flat-earth theory - good source first (garbage in-garbage out). Which means buy a good receiver that you like the sound of and has the features you want and use it to drive the best speakers you can get with what's left of your budget. Two reasons for this

1. A cheap underpowered amp on good speakers will still sound rubbish and may even damage the speakers whereas a decent amp on cheap speakers can still sound OK and no damage to either amp or speakers.

2. There is more choice out there to match speakers with an amp you already have. If you've demoed the amp and know it can sound good, then you know later somewhere out there will be the right speakers. Whereas a good set of speakers you may have demoed behind a good stereo amp may NEVER sound as good again behind any receiver.

IMHO only of course.

[Juicester]

of course there is also the school of though that says you should buy the speakers first. If you buy a good pair of speakers they will last, what - 10-15 years? Electronics are outdated every 6-12 months... so there is that to consider as well. I personally bought a pair of speakers that far outclassed my electronic gear, because i liked the idea of my system improving as i upgraded the electronic stuff- so my speakers will sound better and better without having to spend any extra money on them. By the time i have enough decent electronic gear, i will have some kit that is good enough to pair with my next speaker upgrade (which won't be for a while mind you... )

just inmho as well. good luck with your choice.

[50mxe20]

It's chicken and egg in my experience.

eg, I bought what I thought were reasonably good speakers and then upgraded the electronic side of things (several times) and now there is an imbalance again. Now need to upgrade the speakers to match. Sighhh!!!!

So it's all relative.

The best advice is to wait as long as possible, save as much as possible and buy the best you can afford.

WAF allowing.

[Juicester]

The best advice is to wait as long as possible, save as much as possible and buy the best you can afford.

good advice... but oooooooohhh so hard to follow. I'm sure there are plenty (like me) who have thought "i wish i'd waited longer" ... but the 'itch' you get in wanting to purchase often clouds your better judgement! After all... if you want 5k for the system of your dreams and you get to the 4k mark, you try and rationalise that you can still buy something great for 4k. Which is true - but it won't be what you'd planned on buying to start with! The evil circle...

[Adinfinitum]

Electronics are outdated every 6-12 months

Agreed when we're talking about features within surround sound processors, but a good quality hi-fi can be for life. I've updated many things over the years but my best sounding equipment is still my 12 year old Naim gear and if I ever replace it, it will be because I can afford something better, not because its out of date. The OP stated he wants to use a mixer and turntables so old technology is still the go...

[AndrewW]

I've sourced prices for importing from both Singapore and Hong Kong and the 663 would probably take me back $750 with postage and the same kind of prices for the onkyo 606.

You should have no problem getting a 663 for $750 locally.

It's what I paid for mine a couple of weeks ago.

And then you get the full local warranty if you ever need it.

[dantan]

Flat Earth Vs Round Earth -

Do I get good speakers with cheap amp or vice-versa? I personally subscribe to the flat-earth theory - good source first (garbage in-garbage out). Which means buy a good receiver that you like the sound of and has the features you want and use it to drive the best speakers you can get with what's left of your budget. Two reasons for this

1. A cheap underpowered amp on good speakers will still sound rubbish and may even damage the speakers whereas a decent amp on cheap speakers can still sound OK and no damage to either amp or speakers.

2. There is more choice out there to match speakers with an amp you already have. If you've demoed the amp and know it can sound good, then you know later somewhere out there will be the right speakers. Whereas a good set of speakers you may have demoed behind a good stereo amp may NEVER sound as good again behind any receiver.

IMHO only of course.

I completely agree with your comments here.

To add on, loudspeakers are the most inefficient part of the whole process. They are last in line, before sound (hopefully nice flowing music) gets emitted. Like you said, garbage in, garbage out.

Source has always been - and always will be - the most important. As much as I love auditoning and listening to good loudspeakers and would love to be able to spend $15,000.00 on a lovely pair of loudspeakers.

However, experience has taught me to first select and purchase the source and matching pre-amp or amp, then loudspeakers.

Nothing in the process, ideally, should be skimped on cost and quality-wise. Everything should cost about the same, so that the whole system is well-balanced level-wise, if I am making any sense here.

[50mxe20]

good advice... but oooooooohhh so hard to follow. I'm sure there are plenty (like me) who have thought "i wish i'd waited longer" ... but the 'itch' you get in wanting to purchase often clouds your better judgement! After all... if you want 5k for the system of your dreams and you get to the 4k mark, you try and rationalise that you can still buy something great for 4k. Which is true - but it won't be what you'd planned on buying to start with! The evil circle...

No that's 100% true. And I did exactly that.

Don't we all do that. (Rhetorical)

All one can do is set a budget and do the best one can.

In my case though I did start with a $2500 budget but waited 18 months and spent about $6K, because I soon realised that my expectations were wrong.

Of course since then I've spent ..... well no need to go into that. (A lot more).

[Jeffie1503561482]

the electronics being out of date quick is true to a point... but you should be safe for a while if it can decode the latest codecs and runs audyssey, granted it doesnt break down!

the $1k mark will get you a nice avr. $500 will get you some bookshelves pretty easily, just pick the brand that you want to have all round and pick the rest up later when funds allow.

[soupboy]

Okay, so after reading everyones comments I think I'll probably go with the 1k reciever and some fronts then add on the rest of the surround at a later point.

Now deciding over the Pioneer 1018AHK, Yammy 663 and possibly the marrantz 5003 if its released soon.

Anyone have any preferences over these?

I'd go and listen to them but in bendigo sadly the only way I'll be able to see any of these is to actually order them and pay (there is only 1 AV store and Harvey Norman/The Good guys don't stock any but the basic $500 ones).

Is it worth coming up to Melbourne so that I can actually talk down the sales person since they'll have stock there that they're trying to get rid of instead of relying on ordering everything in.

Are the LSK speakers anygood? They seem to get pretty good reviews for their prices but is there any other speakers I should be looking at within a $1000 range for fronts

[yamapro]

Hi Soupboy.

There are quite a few tower speakers available around $1k - but very few true high quality ones. I haven't heard the LSKs to be honest but they seem well designed and use decent components inside. I would honestly be surprised if any tower locally retailing around $1k would better them...

Just remember these are $899 plus the cost of assembly and finishing (which can be as much or as little as you decide plus the cost of your time )

Downside is you can't audition these - the upshot is IMHO $1k retail towers are rarely worth auditioning anyway so your kits will no doubt have the upper hand...

[soupboy]

Just read that the Harman Kardon 255 is available in Aus. They seem pretty good for everything that I need. 999rrp and I saw that DigitalCentre in Melbourne have them available for $849.

Seems to process video decently apart from not passing BTB and WTW at the moment but thats meant to be fixed with a firmware release coming soon.

Sound wise it seems to be the best within the $1000 budget and it also looks damn sexy.

Just read the DTV review thread on it and everyone seems pretty happy with it. Now just have to see who in Bendigo I can get to match it, I know Harvey Norman carry HK but whether or not they'll price match that price is to be seen.

[SHO]

Just read that the Harman Kardon 255 is available in Aus. They seem pretty good for everything that I need. 999rrp and I saw that DigitalCentre in Melbourne have them available for $849.

Seems to process video decently apart from not passing BTB and WTW at the moment but thats meant to be fixed with a firmware release coming soon.

Sound wise it seems to be the best within the $1000 budget and it also looks damn sexy.

Just read the DTV review thread on it and everyone seems pretty happy with it. Now just have to see who in Bendigo I can get to match it, I know Harvey Norman carry HK but whether or not they'll price match that price is to be seen.

From my understanding the Aus spec model does indeed pass BTB (i could be wrong though). The Yamaha (663) does not pass BTB & they have no plans in the future to do so. However i would purchase more for Audio performance.

I think for your need's I would opt for Either the Pioneer you mentioned or the HK.

Edited September 11, 2008 by SHO

[Mitcon1503562253]

Real truth here is that everyone body is correct, for things to sound good you do need decent speakers but in the same line crap in-crap out does apply equally as good speakers wont sound good if your not feeding them well. So all in all I agree with good source first, no point in putting the cart before the horse. AVR/ Processors like speakers all have their own unique sound (AMP's shouldn't but thats not to say they don't lol) and my own choices would be in the more affordable market HK or Pioneer then Denon and lastly Yammaha (in that order of preference). If you can't afford the latest models have a look at the higher end models that have just been outdated as they can be had for less than half price often and offer great bang for your buck value.

Speakers well I'd either save up for something decent again and if it's going to take a while to do that and you just can't wait that long I'd either buy good 2nd hand or just get something cheap like the Dream Acustics off eBay just untill you can afford quality speakers. BTW you don't have to pay extreme amounts of cash for good quality speakers, if your happy with the likes of LSK's offerings give serious thought and maybe a phone call to Adelaide Speakers for some great speakers at very good prices (can bought bought in kit forms also if you like the DIY route)

[rocky500]

I would buy a good amp.

Then Buy my rear speakers now and use them as fronts until I save enough money to buy some good front speakers.

Mabey JMLabs for rears

[SlawMan]

Try to get hold of one of the old Xbox surround kits. Sometimes they pop up on ebay in the US. They were made by Mirage and they are the biggest deal in audio I have ever heard (pardon the pun!).

Failing that I would go for a set of paradigm atoms for fronts (think they are about $500) and a stereo amp with the change. then build the rest as you get the dough.

U need to listen to the speakers to determin if you like the sound, what consitutes good is very different for different people.

Edited September 12, 2008 by SlawMan

[soupboy]

Okay I'm decided on the HK AVR255 don't see any need to go up to the 355 for a little power and a couple connections. Can anyone see any real reason to go the extra 15W. Lounge room is only 5x6ish so its a meduim sized but live right in the middle of town so won't be able to have it loud loud.

What are the best prices/prices that people have been getting AVR255s at? I saw digital centre in Melbourne have them available for $849 which seems pretty good. Can I do any better than this?

Will try and on my days off sample some speakers but knowing Bendigo nothing they stock will be worth auditioning really. Harvey Norman is probably my best bet and sadly they only have probably less than what I can count on my hands to trial.

[Adinfinitum]

Okay I'm decided on the HK AVR255 don't see any need to go up to the 355 for a little power and a couple connections. Can anyone see any real reason to go the extra 15W.

Normally, I'd probably say yes, but HK are good quality watts, for want of a better term. If you get a chance to demo, check what speakers they are using, as 50w - on paper - is pretty low. So test the sound levels, particulalry the dynamic range (not just explosions as the sub will take a lot of that load) then when you get home look up how sensitive the speakers are. You might be a little limited in what speakers you put behind them later. That said, HK do give a lovely, musical sound and are very listenable.

FWIW, my 2ch amp is only 45w and in every area, it blows away my previous 120w one that I thought was a very nice amp.

Quality, not quantity.