Diy Mains Voltage Work

[Roderick]

It's time all good Australians stood up and told their Bureaucrats and Electricians to go jump in the lake -- prefeferably while holding on to a live active wire. Thomas Jefferson once said that if a law is supid then it is every citizen's right to disobey that law. The outdated restrictions on who can do 230 volt wiring in one own home is just such a law, and one in four handymen are guilty of transgressing these laws. Practically no one is ever prosecuted!

The latest edition of "Silicon Chip" magazine has an article and editorial about all this. They point out that in countries like New Zealand, where it is legal to do your own 230 volt wiring, the number of electrocutions is actully less that in Australia, and so are the number of electrical fires. NZ has about half the number of electrocutions per million population compared with Australia, and the electrical fire stats are similar.

The reason for this is that the NZ government goes out of its way to make sure the public is properly educated about house wiring, fixing switches and how to do it, etc. They put out glossy brochures on the subject in the hope that handyment will become better educated, and therefore make fewer mistakes. NZ citizens can even wire their own houses -- except for the switchboard.

The laws in Australia have nothing to do with saftey, and they are not even "evidence-based". They are there to perpetuate the restrictive practices promulgated by the electrical trades. They are unfair, dishonest, and they stink! it's like Doctors trying to limit the number of trainee doctors, and preventing Nurses from doing procedures that they are perfectly capable of doing at much less cost.

Rod

[DrP]

Having been on the nasty end of an improperly wired light socket, I'm not so sure I like the idea of the average man off the street wiring up a house. At the very least I'd want an inspector to cast an eye over the work before the walls go on or the electricity connected.

[(ツ)]

I agree, it's all good to wire up a light, or a single power point, but when it comes to wiring up an entire house it takes more than sticky tape, screwdrivers and a "she'll be right, mate" approach. I'd be a bit worried if during an inspection of a place I wanna buy, I plug in the vibrator and all the lights go dim

Edited June 11, 2008 by POWERZONE

[Mining Man]

I had an electrician mate cast an eye over some lights I'd installed back during uni daze. He reckoned I'd done a better job than he would have.

Looking back, I'm not sure what was the most stupid part of it:

1) installing the lights

2) installing the lights in a garden shed out the back

3) installing the lights in a garden shed out the back in someone else's house

[Roderick]

Having been on the nasty end of an improperly wired light socket, I'm not so sure I like the idea of the average man off the street wiring up a house. At the very least I'd want an inspector to cast an eye over the work before the walls go on or the electricity connected.

Yes, in NZ you have to get a liscenced electrician to approve the house wiring. In Australia this cannot legally happen. It ist verboten!

Rpd

[stahc]

having been on the nasty end of attempted "job stealing" would you like it if some outsider took your work away from you........just another point of view rod

better to have someone trained in the field for safety in my opinion

[hornblower]

having been on the nasty end of attempted "job stealing" would you like it if some outsider took your work away from you........just another point of view rod

better to have someone trained in the field for safety in my opinion

In principle I agree with you, however having experience with many "tradesmen" I am no longer sure.

hornblower

[stahc]

In principle I agree with you, however having experience with many "tradesmen" I am no longer sure.

hornblower

guess it depends if you've been "lucky"*

* no i'm not a tradesman

[Roderick]

having been on the nasty end of attempted "job stealing" would you like it if some outsider took your work away from you........just another point of view rod

better to have someone trained in the field for safety in my opinion

Nonsense! The current laws in Australia appear to be responsible for more deaths that would otherwise be the case. The laws as they stand are killing people. Much better to have a well-educated public.

The current setup is also anticompetitive, and is ultimately holding the country back. The laws could be thrown out purely on the grounds of poor trade-practice. It's all costing you and me more than it should, and detracting from the wealth of the nation. Restrictive trade practices.

Safety does not come into it!

Rod

[stahc]

Nonsense! The current laws in Australia appear to be responsible for more deaths that would otherwise be the case. The laws as they stand are killing people. Much better to have a well-educated public.

The current setup is also anticompetitive, and is ultimately holding the country back. The laws could be thrown out purely on the grounds of poor trade-practice. It's all costing you and me more than it should, and detracting from the wealth of the nation. Restrictive trade practices.

Safety does not come into it!

Rod

only said it was another point of view....................you didn't have to shove it down my throat..................*******

[(ツ)]

Rod, I say leave it to the experts.....

I can sleep at night knowing that the place next door won't burn down - taking my place with it - leaving me with no avenue for compensation. That's part of being a tradie - insurance - public liability - which they pay for.

That's where your price hike is.

How often do you get electrical wiring done anyway?

Edited June 11, 2008 by POWERZONE

[Roderick]

Rod, I say leave it to the experts.....

I can sleep at night knowing that the place next door won't burn down - taking my place with it - leaving me with no avenue for compensation. That's part of being a tradie - insurance - public liability - which they pay for.

That's where your price hike is.

How often do you get electrical wiring done anyway?

Did you not hear me say that NZ has half the rate of electrical fires compared with Australia. Well-educated handymen make for safer wiring, probably much safer than the crap jobs done by sparkies in a hurry? I've seen the way some of them work -- no time to kill ther power, just work with live wiring (an that's illegal in most states).

To answer you second question, practically never, now.

Rod

Edited June 11, 2008 by Roderick

[Mining Man]

Did you not hear me say that NZ has half the rate of electrical fires compared with Australia...

~

If I was really immature, I might suggest that's because only a quarter of NZ actually has electricity. And thumbs...

[myrantz]

I don't mind paying an arm and a leg for people to do up 240V... After all, my life is prob more important..

But change the law and allow people to wire up their own ethernet (and repeal those stupid ACMA laws) and you have my support... The chances of getting killed by a telephone wire is heaps less than a mains wires.. (And if you mess up and destroy some Telstra equipment, either pretend it isn't you, or pay hefty fines if they proved it)...

Speaking of that.. Ban sales of all CAT5 and CAT5e cables, Japan is using CAT7e now.... Talk about slow...

[Roderick]

If I was really immature, I might suggest that's because only a quarter of NZ actually has electricity. And thumbs...

Careful! You're one of them now, Mining Man.

[(ツ)]

Did you not hear me say that NZ has half the rate of electrical fires compared with Australia. Well-educated handymen make for safer wiring, probably much safer than the crap jobs done by sparkies in a hurry? I've seen the way some of them work -- no time to kill ther power, just work with live wiring (an that's illegal in most states).

Your opening post suggested that the Average Everyday Joe (AEJ) should be able to tamper with their own wiring, correct?

Ask the AEJ how many amps are you allowed to run across a circuit? How many power points? Lights? 3 phase power?

Safety switches? Correctly installed Earth points? Proximity to gas lines?

Chances are, "Zay know Nuzzing" But they will try and do it regardless.

Why will they try and do it regardless?

Because if we allow what you're suggesting they won't BE any "sparkies" out there to do it for you.

To answer you second question, practically never, no.

Exactly

So what's the big deal?

Go to a reputable electrician, get the job done right, the first time, and forget about it.

Do it yourself, and screw up, the first time might be the last time, forget forgetting about it, you won't remember it

Be the first on your block to be the last on your block

[Chui2]

Did you not hear me say that NZ has half the rate of electrical fires compared with Australia.

Sorry mispost

I'll leave now.

ETU - Here to stay.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Chui

[BribieG]

I'm surprised that more Poms haven't jumped on to this topic! I'm not sure what it is like nowadays but when I lived in the UK when you bought ANY electrical appliance it would come with an electrical cord sticking out the back, with NOTHING on the end of the cord. You would then go and buy a Three Pin plug and fit it yourself. One of the adult rites of passage of any pom would be to learn how to fit a plug.

(wikipedia article, go toType G (British 3-pin)

Taking a screwdriver you remove the casing of the plug using the main screw, and loosen the the internal brass screws which enable you to connect the wires from the electric iron, kettle etc. Strip the PVC from the 3 (yup 3 not 2) coloured wires and connect them to the neutral, live and earth terminals. A good method is to use your teeth to strip the insulation from the 3 wires, then twist the exposed copper wires around the threads of the raised screws, carefully avoiding any flyaway strands that could contact the other wires and result in meltdown when you turn on the kettle etc. Then screw everything down tight and replace the plug cover. Note that inside the plug is a build in 'barrel' fuse. Sometimes the fuse may burn out and then you have to dismantle the plug and replace the fuse. Most poms do this by age 16. Like me, any poms reading this will have memories flooding back as if it's only 10 minutes since they did their last plug. I can see it now, including the ones where I accidentally connected the brown lead to the blue screw or vice versa.

To this day I don't trust Australian plugs because. 1. I haven't installed it myself and 2. There's not a 'real' earth and 3. There's no built in fuse.

Edit: I'm not talking about enthusiasts or hobbyists here. Everyone like everyone had to fit their own plugs when they bought and electrical item, Mums, Pensioners, students etc. Mostly they would get the kids to do it "Eric's 12 now, he knows how to fit a plug by gum ". Plugs would be on the shopping list like light globes and Duracells are here .

Edited June 11, 2008 by BribieG

[Roderick]

Your opening post suggested that the Average Everyday Joe (AEJ) should be able to tamper with their own wiring, correct?

Ask the AEJ how many amps are you allowed to run across a circuit? How many power points? Lights? 3 phase power?

Safety switches? Correctly installed Earth points? Proximity to gas lines?

Chances are, "Zay know Nuzzing" But they will try and do it regardless.

Why will they try and do it regardless?

Because if we allow what you're suggesting they won't BE any "sparkies" out there to do it for you.

Exactly

So what's the big deal?

Go to a reputable electrician, get the job done right, the first time, and forget about it.

Do it yourself, and screw up, the first time might be the last time, forget forgetting about it, you won't remember it

Be the first on your block to be the last on your block

You know they say an Englishman's home is his castle -- well an Australian's home is the domain of bureacrats, local government, elecricians and plumbers -- that's if you can get one. Welcome to the Soviet Socialist enterprise - rule by trades.

The whole system of trades in Australia stinks. It's one big ripoff, and will come a big cropper one day. Perhaps cheap tradesmen from China will suddenly appear. Canberra is particulaly bad. You seem to pay double what you would in Melbourne, for example, and dodgy brothers are two a penny. Few turn up when they say -- positively dishonest.

We had electricians in when we renovated the kitchen and two bathrooms, but most of the small jobs I now attend to. Much much cheaper, and the results are generally better.

Incidentally, I have a copy of the New Zealand standards I printed off the Web -- plus instructions on DIY. Their standards are practically identical to Australia.

For everyones information, mains power in Austalia and NZ averages 230 volts RMS by law, not 240 volts.

Rod

[Spearmint]

You know they say an Englishman's home is his castle -- well an Australian's home is the domain of bureacrats, local government, elecricians and plumbers -- that's if you can get one. Welcome to the Soviet Socialist enterprise - rule by trades.

The whole system of trades in Australia stinks. It's one big ripoff, and will come a big cropper one day. Perhaps cheap tradesmen from China will suddenly appear. Canberra is particulaly bad. You seem to pay double what you would in Melbourne, for example, and dodgy brothers are two a penny. Few turn up when they say -- positively dishonest.

We had electricians in when we renovated the kitchen and two bathrooms, but most of the small jobs I now attend to. Much much cheaper, and the results are generally better.

Incidentally, I have a copy of the New Zealand standards I printed off the Web -- plus instructions on DIY. Their standards are practically identical to Australia.

For everyones information, mains power in Austalia and NZ averages 230 volts RMS by law, not 240 volts.

Rod

LOL I'm not sure why some of you are getting so uptight about this.

For anyone interested you may like to check this out.

http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/templates/Page____17682.aspx

and in particular this snippet.

* install, extend, and alter subcircuits (including submains), provided that:

o the person must not enter (whether personally, by holding any material or equipment, or otherwise) any enclosure where live active conductors are likely to be present; and

o the work is tested by a registered electrical inspector, in accordance with NZS 3019, and the work is certified by that inspector in accordance with regulation 39, before being connected to a supply of electricity by such an inspector.

You must get the finished job checked and tested by a licensed electrical inspector. You cannot connect your work to the electricity supply yourself. The inspector will connect it, test it, and issue you with a Certificate of Compliance if it complies with safety requirements.

It sounds to me that the Sparkies now get an inspectors license, Joe public does all the hard yards, and the good old lard ar5e sparky err inspector comes along and makes a nice coin doing bugger all!

[(ツ)]

You know they say an Englishman's home is his castle -- well an Australian's home is the domain of bureacrats, local government, elecricians and plumbers -- that's if you can get one. Welcome to the Soviet Socialist enterprise - rule by trades. The whole system of trades in Australia stinks. It's one big ripoff, and will come a big cropper one day.

One thing missing on that list is insurance companies

That's what Australias' domain is really home to.

Public liability insurance, car insurance, home insurance, contents insurance. That's where the "rip off" is.

Could you imagine how much higher your home and contents insurance premiums would be if the law was relaxed and people could fiddle with their own wiring? Any saving you would've made by doing it yourself would be gone in less than 2 years - and beyond that - you're loosing each and every year.

We had electricians in when we renovated the kitchen and two bathrooms, but most of the small jobs I now attend to. Much much cheaper, and the results are generally better.

Yep, like I said originally, the small odd job such as changing a light switch etc probably wouldn't be such a drama.

What I'm taking issue with is people doing major wiring around the house.

I'd probably only ever get wiring done once in 20 odd years, so not frequent enough for me to do it myself.

If I take into account the amount of time I'd spend messing about with wiring circuits compared to the amount of time I'd spend just going to work - in terms of dollars per hour - I'm better off getting someone to do it for me.

That's just my opinion anyway

Edited June 11, 2008 by POWERZONE

[Roderick]

It sounds to me that the Sparkies now get an inspectors license, Joe public does all the hard yards, and the good old lard ar5e sparky err inspector comes along and makes a nice coin doing bugger all!

I doubt that most NZ handymen bother to get a replaced powerpoint inspected, or when they have to move wallplates to do some painting. This only applies to major new house wiring. The NZ government's own brochure shows a housewife rewiring a switch on the front page!

There is no way you are going to stop handymen doing a bit of their own electrical rearranging in New Zealand or Australia. You would have to jail millions! .

Rod

[Roderick]

One thing missing on that list is insurance companies

That's what Australias' domain is really home to.

Public liability insurance, car insurance, home insurance, contents insurance. That's where the "rip off" is.

Could you imagine how much higher your home and contents insurance premiums would be if the law was relaxed and people could fiddle with their own wiring? Any saving you would've made by doing it yourself would be gone in less than 2 years - and beyond that - you're loosing each and every year.

You don't have to imagine, POWERZONE, home and contents insurance is actually CHEAPER in NZ!

After all they have fewer electical fires per million population than we do in Australia, and that because the good old NZ population is better educated -- smarter if you like .

[(ツ)]

NZ population is better educated -- smarter if you like .

Oh, I forgot, they also have a "No-Fault" system of law in NZ . They don't have all those expensive law suits!

Definitely smarter

Out of curiosity, would you re-wire your house yourself?

Edited June 11, 2008 by POWERZONE

[Roderick]

Oh, I forgot, they also have a "No-Fault" system of law in NZ . They don't have all those expensive law suits!

No, I would probably not choose to rewire a whole house now, but then I have just had the main arteries in both legs replaced by Teflon tubes, and am currently feeling a little less agile than normal!

10 years ago maybe. Just between you and me, I have wired up a few extra power points in recent years, and like Mining Man, I wired up a garden shed a long time ago, an many security lights etc.

Rod

Edited June 11, 2008 by Roderick