Guest mickoh Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Hi Guys, Is it just me or does there seem to be some extreme brand Bias on this forum when it comes to LCD's and Plasma Screens. There are only so many manufactures of srceens out there and some people are of the opinion that if its a Samsung Screen and not in a Samsung Branded Set then the screen must be must be a reject. This seems a bit extreme as while I admit there are many No Name Brand TV's out there that are not the best value for money or the PQ is sub quality. There also a few that seem to be ok. I was looking at info on TCL branded LCD's as PQ compared to other Brands seems quite good. And from what I have read TCL is a large manufacturer of TV's. But there seems to be a Bias against this Brand as with many others. Any thoughts.
50mxe20 Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Yes there is definite favouritism on this forum. Usually with good reason though.
kulfi Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Question 1 : Would you buy a Zongshen bike which claims it has a Honda engine inside ? Question 2: Would you pay virtually the same amount of money for the Zongshen as for the Honda ? Question 3: Do you believe that the Zongshen will be as good as a Honda just because it claims to have a Honda engine ? If you've answered "Yes" to any of the three questions above, you're the ideal customer for Kogan or TCL or Palsonic or Soniq or Conia. If you think what I'm saying makes sense, then read these facts - 1) There are different generations of panel out there. 2) The specs of the no-name vs the brand-name will reveal the difference in generations 3) Even if you take the latest panel off the Pioneer assembly line and connect it to some kit-level electronics that you've put together in your shed, the display quality will be average. 4) Fit-and-finish of the no-name brands is invariably worse. Quality of plastics, quality of the remote control and connectors being the visible factors. 5) Big-brand makers offer better warranties. Samsung offers 3 years for LCD, 2 years for plasma. Some no-name guys offer 1 year and some offer 3 years. TCL is a large manufacturer of TVs. There's no doubt about it but then, TCL has 1.3 billion potential customers in their home market of China. The question is whether it's wise to spend almost as much for a TCL as you would for the Samsung. Most people here are trying to help and provide good advice. If you think we're into favouritism, then it's your choice and your money. Edited June 6, 2008 by kulfi
jayweb Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) I look at it this way. If the no name brands were really that good, why do the name brands exist???? Name brands have built up market trust over a long period. If TCL can really build a product that is superior at a competitive price then it will sell, no doubt about it. But, the hard part is continuing to sell competitively priced, quality goods over a long period, then, it becomes .......(you guessed it) a name brand. There are a lot of choices, but ultimately, everyone spends their own money on what they are happy with at a price point they can afford. :edit: spell check, I am rubbish today Edited June 6, 2008 by jayweb
kulfi Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 :edit: spell check, I am rubbish today It's Friday afternoon and there's a long weekend coming up. I think everyone's in the same boat. I'm inclined to tell these people to go away and buy whatever they want. I'd rather go back to sleep but I still have 3 hours more to spend in this office .....
Guest mickoh Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Some Good points and yes if you had a choice between 2 identical products same price but one a known brand then almost everybody would go for the brand name. But brand name doesn't always equal great product or reliability. In the last year I have had 3 Brand name products (Sanyo,Sharp,Panasonic)fail just out side their 12month warranty all have ended up at landfill. I guess what I am trying to point out that some people are happy to pay extra $$$ just because it is a brand name. BTW when Samsung and LG(Goldstar) first started selling electronics in the Aussie market they where considered the cheapie Korean brands in comparison to the Sony and Panasonic's. I just think it's a little ironic that they are now considered top brands by many.
jayweb Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 It's Friday afternoon and there's a long weekend coming up. I think everyone's in the same boat.I'm inclined to tell these people to go away and buy whatever they want. I'd rather go back to sleep but I still have 3 hours more to spend in this office ..... Dont look at the clock.....
mdm Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Dont look at the clock..... I'm in the same boat here (clock watching). So to help time pass could I please ask a couple of questions since Samsung has been mentioned here a fair bit. I'm really keen on the sony X 46". But price-wise it's starting to get depressing. (I've updated in another section about my shopping in adelaide so far). So how do you guys think it compares to the equvalent in the Samsung, please bear in min I haven't researched the Samsung at all. Next question is that I believe that Sony bring out new models in Oct. If this is correct, would it be wise to wait until then & hope that the x becomes "last years model" and is a bit cheaper? Many thanks
myrantz Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Hi Guys,Is it just me or does there seem to be some extreme brand Bias on this forum when it comes to LCD's and Plasma Screens. There are only so many manufactures of srceens out there and some people are of the opinion that if its a Samsung Screen and not in a Samsung Branded Set then the screen must be must be a reject. This seems a bit extreme as while I admit there are many No Name Brand TV's out there that are not the best value for money or the PQ is sub quality. There also a few that seem to be ok. I was looking at info on TCL branded LCD's as PQ compared to other Brands seems quite good. And from what I have read TCL is a large manufacturer of TV's. But there seems to be a Bias against this Brand as with many others. Any thoughts. Not only you. I find this the case too. You probably wouldn't regret your purchase if you go for a Sony or a Samsung... And TBH you're taking more of a punt if you go for the no brands... AFAICT you can gleam very little information/feedback about no brands in this sub-forum.. Once in a while you'd see some positive comments here and there from real owners of TCL/Conia.. The rest simply trash it and said you're better off spending a few quids more for a brand name TV (i.e. they're trashing something based on what they see at the shops, not at home)... Oh, and I nearly forgot, people who trash simply for the brand name alone... This is the place to be for the right advice if your after a brand name TV.. If your after something cheap, you're on your own and you have to do your own research. Edited June 6, 2008 by treblid
jayweb Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I'm in the same boat here (clock watching). So to help time pass could I please ask a couple of questions since Samsung has been mentioned here a fair bit.I'm really keen on the sony X 46". But price-wise it's starting to get depressing. (I've updated in another section about my shopping in adelaide so far). So how do you guys think it compares to the equvalent in the Samsung, please bear in min I haven't researched the Samsung at all. Next question is that I believe that Sony bring out new models in Oct. If this is correct, would it be wise to wait until then & hope that the x becomes "last years model" and is a bit cheaper? Many thanks In another thread I mentioned how when I saw them side by side at Morayfield GG we chose the Sammy for the father in law. PQ seemed better in store, doesn't mean you couldnt correct that at home, but Sammy was cheaper and looked better. You would not be upset with either, I have a Bravia as 2nd tele and its very nice. Good luck either way, J.
Guest mickoh Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I would love to see a test with 5 - 10 different brand LCD's, with only the screen being visible with them all running the same feed side by side. I think people voting on PQ alone would guaranttee a few surprise's once brand names had been revealed.
Sparrow Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I was looking at info on TCL branded LCD's as PQ compared to other Brands seems quite good. And from what I have read TCL is a large manufacturer of TV's.But there seems to be a Bias against this Brand as with many others. Any thoughts. Yep ... my thoughts as a TCL LCD owner !!! Went thru the same process a year or so ago & found the exact same ... probably didn't understand why so much THEN ... & bought 32" TCL LCD. At the time it was @ $1400 when all the 'name brand' 32"LCD's were @ $2000 .... so yes, I bought on price. What did I get ??? I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR !!! Does it do the job ??? Yep ... feed it blu ray HDMI signal @ 720p & it don't look too bad at all !!! ..... is it as good as the 'name' brands' ??? .... nope .... definately NOT !!! BUT for me at the time having NO access to digital FTA & only satellite SD via component ... I assumed it would 'do the job' ... and it does ... sort of ??? I have recently upgraded to 50" Samsung plasma ... and BOY can you see the difference in PQ with the same satellite SD via component feed. Blu ray @ 720p looks ..... AMAZING !!! Bottom line is .... BMW's cost more that Hyundai's for a reason ??? Nothing WRONG with 'cheapy' no name brands .... just don't EXPECT your 'Hyundai' to EVER perform like a 'BMW' !!!
myrantz Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) I would love to see a test with 5 - 10 different brand LCD's, with only the screen being visible with them all running the same feed side by side. I think people voting on PQ alone would guaranttee a few surprise's once brand names had been revealed. Putting them side by side is very confusing... I'm no expert here, but you really need to just look at one TV, give your rating, then rest a bit, look at another TV, and so on.. The shot gun approach don't work well. Speaking of that... Some stores I've been to, the Sammys and Sonys have more space between them (i.e. less distractions) ... And they're fed blue ray sources... The other no brands are either stacked very closely together, and fed DTV or FTA TV, or kept in their boxes with no display set. Yep ... my thoughts as a TCL LCD owner !!!Went thru the same process a year or so ago & found the exact same ... probably didn't understand why so much THEN ... & bought 32" TCL LCD. At the time it was @ $1400 when all the 'name brand' 32"LCD's were @ $2000 .... so yes, I bought on price. What did I get ??? I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR !!! Does it do the job ??? Yep ... feed it blu ray HDMI signal @ 720p & it don't look too bad at all !!! ..... is it as good as the 'name' brands' ??? .... nope .... definately NOT !!! BUT for me at the time having NO access to digital FTA & only satellite SD via component ... I assumed it would 'do the job' ... and it does ... sort of ??? I have recently upgraded to 50" Samsung plasma ... and BOY can you see the difference in PQ with the same satellite SD via component feed. Blu ray @ 720p looks ..... AMAZING !!! Bottom line is .... BMW's cost more that Hyundai's for a reason ??? Nothing WRONG with 'cheapy' no name brands .... just don't EXPECT your 'Hyundai' to EVER perform like a 'BMW' !!! So how much you pay for your 50" plasma, $1.5k? And you proved my point of the mentality in this forum. Do you go tell everybody to go buy a BMW for those who just want to get a car that goes from point A to point B? BMW cost more than Hyundai for a reason, but are you buying a BMW for the right reasons? i.e. do you need all the features a BMW provide when you drive from A to B? If yes, go for it. For those who don't need the extra features drivability a BMW provides, is it not a waste of money? Edited June 6, 2008 by treblid
kulfi Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 The rest simply trash it and said you're better off spending a few quids more for a brand name TV (i.e. they're trashing something based on what they see at the shops, not at home)... Oh, and I nearly forgot, people who trash simply for the brand name alone... This is the place to be for the right advice if your after a brand name TV.. If your after something cheap, you're on your own and you have to do your own research. All of us don't live in Perth where the cost difference between the name and no-name brands is massive, as you've been saying so often. The actual prices in Sydney/Melbourne are very competitive. Did I see the difference in the shop ? Yes. It's visible to the trained eye. There are blocks, irregularities in backlighting, variances in picture, clay face, greys instead of blacks, loss of vivid colours, motion judder, minor image retention, noisy picture, breakup of sound from the speakers, inconvenient menus, dodgy remotes, the list goes on. Did I see the difference at home ? No because no one is going to allow me to take the no-name TV home to try before I buy. If you have a limited budget, then it's better to wait for a price drop because it will be within your budget after 3-6 months. Sydney prices for a 42" PX7A Pana plasma are now $900, which is now looking like a very attractive deal.
mantronic Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I hate pioneer because they charge 200% prices for 120% performances .... Nothing worse than paying RR prices and getting a BMW :-). Nah ... I just hat exy tvs .. Im still pissed off I paid $3k in 2000 for a crt but you couldnt get any 100hz 80cm for much less than that.
Sparrow Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 So how much you pay for your 50" plasma, $1.5k?BMW cost more than Hyundai for a reason, but are you buying a BMW for the right reasons? i.e. do you need all the features a BMW provide when you drive from A to B? I bought my 50" plasma for $1190 off eBay !!! Shopped for a bargain & 'think' I got one ??? I bought the 'BMW' this time simply because of the quality of the picture .... it is DEFINATELY better than the 'Hyundai' !!! If all you have ever driven is a Hyundai .....and then you DO get the opportunity to sit your ass in a BMW for a week .... THEN you'll 'understand' the difference ??? Same reason why I bought a 100 series cruiser !!! ... only reason that Nissan makes Pootrols is because they cater to those who just can't 'see' the difference between something made to a standard ... and something made to a price ???
myrantz Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) All of us don't live in Perth where the cost difference between the name and no-name brands is massive, as you've been saying so often. The actual prices in Sydney/Melbourne are very competitive. Grrr... I hate WA now.... Did I see the difference in the shop ? Yes. It's visible to the trained eye. There are blocks, irregularities in backlighting, variances in picture, clay face, greys instead of blacks, loss of vivid colours, motion judder, minor image retention, noisy picture, breakup of sound from the speakers, inconvenient menus, dodgy remotes, the list goes on.Did I see the difference at home ? No because no one is going to allow me to take the no-name TV home to try before I buy. Hence it's important for actual no brand owners to speak up. And not just trash it simply from what you see at the shops... For all I know the salesmen set it up that way as the Sonys and Sammys have a higher margain? Granted some artefacts are hard to fake (like that uneven backlight of LCD)... With my limited time, I have still yet to find one shop displaying a TCL, or a shop displaying no name brand TV with a good feed. And then sparrow comes here tells me Plasma is better than LCD.. Hmm I wonder how useful newbies will find that comment to be. If you have a limited budget, then it's better to wait for a price drop because it will be within your budget after 3-6 months. Sydney prices for a 42" PX7A Pana plasma are now $900, which is now looking like a very attractive deal. I do have a limited budget .. But even if not, I really want to buy something for what it's worth, and not what the retailers want.. If I persist enough I will eventually get what I want, if they have the stock that is... I bought my 50" plasma for $1190 off eBay !!! Shopped for a bargain & 'think' I got one ??? Got to admit, there is a ripper price.... Nice find. If all you have ever driven is a Hyundai .....and then you DO get the opportunity to sit your ass in a BMW for a week .... THEN you'll 'understand' the difference ??? Never have the chance to sit or drive a BMW... If I had I wouldn't be so anal with money... Am a Hyundai owner though, abs 0 resale value, but at least no problems with it so far (touch wood). Edited June 6, 2008 by treblid
hobotivo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Not only you. I find this the case too.You probably wouldn't regret your purchase if you go for a Sony or a Samsung... And TBH you're taking more of a punt if you go for the no brands... AFAICT you can gleam very little information/feedback about no brands in this sub-forum.. Once in a while you'd see some positive comments here and there from real owners of TCL/Conia.. The rest simply trash it and said you're better off spending a few quids more for a brand name TV (i.e. they're trashing something based on what they see at the shops, not at home)... This is the place to be for the right advice if your after a brand name TV.. If your after something cheap, you're on your own and you have to do your own research. I agree. I just did a post search on Conia which returned 33 pages, and I read every post made in 2008. (I couldn't be bothered going back further, it was little boring). My observations? I could not find a single post by anybody who had actually purchased and used a Conia who had any complaint about it other than one or two that mentioned reception issues on ABC or SBS, which may be due to antenna issues or whatever. I've seen plenty of posts on all brands re reception, so I discounted them. Without exception the posts bagging them were not from owners, but from "advisors," one in particular who I think I don't need to name. (I did see many posts from owners of Conia DVD players and STB's who were critical, but I'm talking here about Plasmas only.) My principal Plasma is a FullHD 50" japanese built Hitachi which I consider to be superb, the equal of anything I've seen, including Pioneer, against which I compared it, literally side by side, in JB's in Woden, everything else seemed jerky on sideways pans, you really have to see the Hitachi's Frame rate Conversion technology in action to appreciate the difference it makes. I also have a Philips 32" plasma (1024*768) in the bedroom which cost over $6K when new in 2003. All driven by 4 TiVos, 2 Foxtel boxes, PS3 for Blu-Ray, an upscaling Sony SD DVD, Sony receiver, Richter 5.1 speakers, and a B&O system (overpriced for what it is but I got it cheap) for music. I don't think I'm ignorant on the topic of HT gear, although I'll happily admit that I'll never buy a $100K system. Recently I had occasion to go shopping for another TV, you can read all about it here. If you read the post you'll see a Conia 42" Plasma (1024 * 768, HD tuner with HDMI) for $999 was the selection. It's now been in use for a month and it still makes my Mother-in-law very happy. Can anybody read the posts which detail her needs, poor eyesight, viewing habits and technophobia and say she (or I) made the wrong decision? Doubtless some of you will try, but why? It's got a 2 year warranty thanks to Amex, and we only hope to get three years out of it, hell, she's 82 years old, it might well outlast her. If it lasts 2 years and 9 months it will have cost a massive dollar a day! On the topic of "name brands" I used be a fan of Samsung, but after having had a $4K+ Samsung DLP RearPro TV die, beyond economic repair, in less than 3 years I would be very hesitant before buying another Samsung product. Name brands are no big deal in my opinion, quality and longevity are little more than a gamble, I've read horror stories about almost every brand More important is backup from a major retailer, which is why I too would never buy (say) a Kogan. Buying from DSE (a division of Woolworths, Australias largest retailer) I knew that if it was DOA or we just plain weren't happy with it after 14 days I could just pack it back up and return it. I've had occasion to take stuff back to DSE under their change of mind policy many times, with never a quibble. Just my opinion, but I'll stick with it. Cheers Ron Edited June 6, 2008 by hobotivo
Sparrow Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I do have a limited budget .. But even if not, I really want to buy something for what it's worth, and not what the retailers want.. If I persist enough I will eventually get what I want, if they have the stock that is... Check this out then for a BARGAIN 'No Name' brand !!! should be right up your alley ??? Conia 42" Plasma HDTV Compatibility: 1080i/720p. - CPDP4209 The Conia 42" Plasma allows you to enjoy your favourite DVD's and TV shows in 16:9 (widescreen) format. $795.00 With *Free Delivery* Features: - Resolution: 1024 X 768 pixels - Aspect ratio: 16:9 - HDTV compatibility: 1080i/720p - Contrast: 10000:1 - Brightness: 1000cd/m - Viewing angle (H/V): 160 - PC input: VGA/SVGA/XGA - AV input/output - S-VIDEO/YPbPr/YCbCr input - DVI-Plus input - Picture in picture function (in AV Mode) - Full function remote control - Built-in TV Tuner (Analogue) - Speakers and desktop stand included - 12 Months Manufacturers Warranty - Made by Conia - Please note: Always transport this product standing upright Freight: FREE!* * Free delivery to business address only
myrantz Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Check this out then for a BARGAIN 'No Name' brand !!! should be right up your alley ??? No HDMI?? no build in tuner... what deal is that?
kulfi Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Hence it's important for actual no brand owners to speak up. And not just trash it simply from what you see at the shops... For all I know the salesmen set it up that way as the Sonys and Sammys have a higher margain? Granted some artefacts are hard to fake (like that uneven backlight of LCD)... With my limited time, I have still yet to find one shop displaying a TCL, or a shop displaying no name brand TV with a good feed. I had picked up all the remotes and tried tweaking the settings to the best possible values on all TVs. They were all sharing the same feed using the same cables. If anything, I could see a few brand-name TVs set up badly and noticed that the salesman wasn't pushing them at all. On haggling, he told me to take the display TV (this was JB Hi-Fi).
hobotivo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 No HDMI?? no build in tuner... what deal is that? It does have HDMI, except Conia call it DVI-Plus to avoid paying license fees. And it does have built in tuna, but only analog. Cheers Ron
kulfi Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Conia 42" Plasma HDTV Compatibility: 1080i/720p. - CPDP4209 The Conia 42" Plasma allows you to enjoy your favourite DVD's and TV shows in 16:9 (widescreen) format. This thing was selling on Catch of the Day for $649 + shipping yesterday and the day before.
hobotivo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I had picked up all the remotes and tried tweaking the settings to the best possible values on all TVs. They were all sharing the same feed using the same cables. If anything, I could see a few brand-name TVs set up badly and noticed that the salesman wasn't pushing them at all. On haggling, he told me to take the display TV (this was JB Hi-Fi). You managed to get hold of all the remotes in a JB? A miracle! When I was shopping there (at Woden ACT) I had a devil of a job just to get the two or three remotes I wanted. (They were nearly all set up badly, but the lighting was so unlike what you would have in your home it made little difference anyway.) Cheers Ron
50mxe20 Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I hate pioneer because they charge 200% prices for 120% performances .... Nothing worse than paying RR prices and getting a BMW :-). I'm not seeing that. 5 years warranty and free installation (and in my case free calibration) adds up to a fair bit of value. At the time of my purchase I paid about 10% more for a far superior product.
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