Pioneer Lx508a And Purecinema

[pi314]

I've had a LX508A for about half a year now. I don't have a high def player yet, but based on FTA HD broadcasts, I can't help feeling a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I love so many things about my tv, but motion handling doesn't seem as good as I would of expected it to be. While FTA HD loops look great (motion on these is pretty slow), many regular FTA HD program seem to have quite a bit of motion blur, which I hate. A good example is House, which I watch on SC10HD.

Can this be improved in some way? I've tried setting PureCinema to Standard rather than Off but for the life of me I can't tell the difference. Do other people notice a difference with PureCinema Standard versus Off?

Some info about my set up:

* I sit 3 metres from the tv

* I use Bumtious settings from the AVforums

* All noise reduction is off

* I use Drive Mode 2.

[mantronic]

Could be settings or panel but Im currently watching a 50cm crt and its amazing how much blur there is in tv and PS3 games CONTENT. Bigger panels = bigger more noticable blur.

[nightbreed]

I've had a LX508A for about half a year now. I don't have a high def player yet, but based on FTA HD broadcasts, I can't help feeling a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I love so many things about my tv, but motion handling doesn't seem as good as I would of expected it to be. While FTA HD loops look great (motion on these is pretty slow), many regular FTA HD program seem to have quite a bit of motion blur, which I hate. A good example is House, which I watch on SC10HD.

Can this be improved in some way? I've tried setting PureCinema to Standard rather than Off but for the life of me I can't tell the difference. Do other people notice a difference with PureCinema Standard versus Off?

Some info about my set up:

* I sit 3 metres from the tv

* I use Bumtious settings from the AVforums

* All noise reduction is off

* I use Drive Mode 2.

Make sure you turn OFF ALL the noise reduction settings. This should fix the problem.

[JPP]

Reading all these posts about motion blur, I am wondering. Are we talking about a smearing of the edges of objects as they move rapidly, or the judder (Frame Rate judder or lack of fluid motion) of objects as they move across the screen, particularly on moderate speed full frame panning, i.e. when the whole picture is being panned - not just the foreground or background. This is most noticible when there is no central object to attract/hold your attention, for example when outdoor scenery is being panned at a moderate speed. I have noticed more of this of late.

If your TV can only do 60Hz Frame Rate (NTSC) then you will always notice more judder than if the TV can reproduce 50Hz Frame Rate (PAL). A lot of Plasma panels can only do 60Hz FR. Most 1080p panels can do both PAL and NTSC FRs natively and thus don't introduce addtional juddering.

Edited May 29, 2008 by JPP

[pi314]

Could be settings or panel but Im currently watching a 50cm crt and its amazing how much blur there is in tv and PS3 games CONTENT. Bigger panels = bigger more noticable blur.

Yes agreed. I actually have a 50cm CRT as well and notice blur on it as well. I just didn't expect it to be so distracting on my 50" plasma.

[pi314]

Make sure you turn OFF ALL the noise reduction settings. This should fix the problem.

Its all off - see my first post.

Do you perhaps have a Kuro? Do you ever watch House from 3m? No problems for you???

[pi314]

Reading all these posts about motion blur, I am wondering. Are we talking about a smearing of the edges of objects as they move rapidly, or the judder (Frame Rate judder or lack of fluid motion) of objects as they move across the screen, particularly on moderate speed full frame panning, i.e. when the whole picture is being panned - not just the foreground or background. This is most noticible when there is no central object to attract/hold your attention, for example when outdoor scenery is being panned at a moderate speed. I have noticed more of this of late.

If your TV can only do 60Hz Frame Rate (NTSC) then you will always notice more judder than if the TV can reproduce 50Hz Frame Rate (PAL). A lot of Plasma panels can only do 60Hz FR. Most 1080p panels can do both PAL and NTSC FRs natively and thus don't introduce addtional juddering.

I don't believe my tv is experiencing judder. (It can display at both 50Hz (doubled to 100Hz) and 60Hz.)

The problem for me is I'm watching House and I'm looking at someone's face and as soon as they move their head much, I just a get loss in detail and it takes me right out of the viewing experience. I don't really see a blurring around their faces iirc, its just like their face appears to be considerably less detailed during motion.

[bevancoleman]

Do you perhaps have a Kuro? Do you ever watch House from 3m? No problems for you???

We have a Kuro (LX508) and I've never see any motion blur on TV signal, particular not dramas (i.e. House) which are hardly taxing.

Are you seeing motion blur on anything else? Is it only House HD thats causing the issue, or is House SD exactly the same. Any other programs, any games?

[bobbyf]

Perhaps it's the source. Do you find this to be a problem with any other sources, like DVD, Xbox etc?

I remember Bionic Woman being almost unwatchable last year on my LX508, so it could be something to do with US shows from particular networks.

Not watched house for ages, but i haven't noticed it on mine for other stuff. It's all good

What about DRE - is that OFF too? It should be (imo anyway)

I have PC - OFF and DM 2 also by the way

Bob

Edited May 29, 2008 by bobbyf

[pi314]

We have a Kuro (LX508) and I've never see any motion blur on TV signal, particular not dramas (i.e. House) which are hardly taxing.

Really?? I find that really surprising.

How close do you normally sit to your tv? Things look better to me further away but this of course defeats the purpose of having a larger screen.

Are you seeing motion blur on anything else? Is it only House HD thats causing the issue, or is House SD exactly the same. Any other programs, any games?

I've only watched House in SD once and can't really recall - I suspect I would of remembered if it was any better, motion wise, than HD, and hence it probably wasn't. Aside from programs without much motion (such as HD loops), I have this issue with a number of tv programs. Actually, Lost tends to consistently look great.

[pi314]

Perhaps it's the source. Do you find this to be a problem with any other sources, like DVD, Xbox etc?

I remember Bionic Woman being almost unwatchable last year on my LX508, so it could be something to do with US shows from particular networks.

Not watched house for ages, but i haven't noticed it on mine for other stuff. It's all good

What about DRE - is that OFF too? It should be (imo anyway)

I have PC - OFF and DM 2 also by the way

Bob

Xbox 360 is good for the most part but I can certainly find motion related problems if I look for them - for example, fast panning.

My only current DVD player is the Xbox - the quality is so poor, very few dvds are watched and I can't really comment.

I have DRE off.

How far away are you sitting?

Also what are people using for

* Sharpness

* Enhancer mode

* I-P mode

(I'm not sure if these make a difference to motion or not.)

Here are my current settings:

* Sharpness -15

* Enhancer mode 2

* I-P mode 2

[bevancoleman]

Really?? I find that really surprising.

How close do you normally sit to your tv? Things look better to me further away but this of course defeats the purpose of having a larger screen.

Depends if I'm playing games or not, but for general TV I sit at 3m. Games I often pull in a bean bag, so more like 2m.

Why does it supprise you? The pioneer plasma are not meant to have much (if any) motion blur at all. And I can't imagine even a TV with bad motion blur ahvbing issues with House, it's hardly got lots of fast motion.

I've only watched House in SD once and can't really recall - I suspect I would of remembered if it was any better, motion wise, than HD, and hence it probably wasn't. Aside from programs without much motion (such as HD loops), I have this issue with a number of tv programs. Actually, Lost tends to consistently look great.

You considered that you might not be seeing motion blur at all, but deficienies in the source material for these programs, or issues with the stations codec.

I can't really say without seeing what your are, but to me it sounds like you have some other issue which appears to be a bit like motion blur. I'm thinking it could be deinterlacing feathering?

[jd71]

I have a Samsung P9 and my wife always notices house in particular with the juddering/panning problem. It doesnt worry me too much. Im think the sammy is 60hz, so this would be the reason I guess. Do you guys think a full 100hz plasma would be smoother and less juddery for everything?

regards

Justin

[mwd]

I suffer from the dreaded motion blur as well. I have to sit right at the back of a Cinema otherwise its unwatchable.

Same with TV if I sit 2.3m approx to see the full HD detail.

At 3.5-4.0m it is barely noticeable at all ( 60" Pioneer ). I figured its an eye brain thing as it is not disturbing to some people.

NB I have to use reading glasses for close work but my long distance sight is good.

Edited May 29, 2008 by mwd

[bobbyf]

How far away are you sitting?

I'm at 3m also. Perhaps you are more susceptible to seeing this than most

[pi314]

I suffer from the dreaded motion blur as well. I have to sit right at the back of a Cinema otherwise its unwatchable.

Same with TV if I sit 2.3m approx to see the full HD detail.

At 3.5-4.0m it is barely noticeable at all ( 60" Pioneer ). I figured its an eye brain thing as it is not disturbing to some people.

I feel for you. I do notice motion blur in cinemas (as I believe most people do) but I can very happily watch a film from the middle of the cinema. For some reason the Kuro motion blur is more disturbing. I suspect it is down to source material.

[pi314]

I'm short sighted and wear glasses. With glasses, my vision is very good. Of course how my eyes/brain see things could be the issue.

OK two questions:

1. Is there anyone with a Kuro in Canberra? What are your impressions of House on SC10HD?

2. Do any Kuro owners notice any difference with PureCinema set to Standard versus Off?

Edited May 29, 2008 by pi314

[Iglesia]

I've been using Bumptious' original settings for 6 months (60" Panel) at around 2 metres and haven't noticed any blur.

CONTRAST 34

BRIGHTNESS 0

COLOUR -2

TINT +2 Towards Green

SHARPNESS -15

PRO ADJUST > PURE CINEMA

FILM MODE OFF (BLUE RAY/HD DVD Smooth or Advanced)

TEXT OPTIMISATION OFF

INTELIGENT MODE OFF

PICTURE DETAIL

DRE OFF (Med if you prefer)

BLACK LEVEL OFF

ACL OFF

ENHANCER MODE 1

GAMMA 3

COLOUR DETAIL MANUAL (HOLD ENTER FOR 3 SECS)

COLOUR TEMP

R High -2

G High 0

B High +2

R Low 0

G Low 0

B Low 0

CTI OFF

COLOUR MANAGEMENT

R 0

Y 0

G 0

c 0

B 0

M -8

COLOUR SPACE 1

[pi314]

I've been using Bumptious' original settings for 6 months (60" Panel) at around 2 metres and haven't noticed any blur.

I really envy you.

I use Bumptious' LX Starter settings, which are a bit different to your settings . (BTW have you tried these? I think I tried your settings previously and I like my current settings better. I'm not sure however if there are differences between 50" and 60" models.) The only setting that I can see that we have different that might effect motion is Enhancer Mode. I'll do some experimenting...

[THX1979]

enhancer mode just brings in the high frequency details- personally i think it looks better than "2" (which is where D-nice likes it)

35mm film has motion blur so I think its normal- i get it on my lx508 and it aint as bad as a CRT cause with CRT they were using slow decay phosphours which makes the smearing effect worse

blur can also be inherent to a shitty source

[wheelz]

I've been using Bumptious' original settings for 6 months (60" Panel) at around 2 metres and haven't noticed any blur.

I used these settings as a starting point,you might want to change to color space 2,makes a big difference to skin tones(more natural))

[pi314]

35mm film has motion blur so I think its normal- i get it on my lx508 and it aint as bad as a CRT cause with CRT they were using slow decay phosphours which makes the smearing effect worse

Yep, film does have motion blur. I tried finding info on whether House is shot in film or video but had no luck. Anyone know?

My CRT handles motion better than my Kuro, that is, it doesn't annoy me like it does on my Kuro. Note however that both the CRT and Kuro are viewed from similar distances but my CRT is a 20" 4:3 screen while the plasma is a 50".

[sydney2218]

I used these settings as a starting point,you might want to change to color space 2,makes a big difference to skin tones(more natural))

What are the best settings for the 508 ?

[Johno666]

I definately get motion blur on my LX508A, not every tv show, but alot do.

The buzzing is also starting to piss me off, especially at night with low volumes, i sit at 2.7 metres away and thats my limit due to space.

[Mark Haynes]

I watch House SC10HD here in Canberra on my Kuro & can't say i have noticed much in the way of motion blur. The movement in House is very slow most of the time

so can't imagine it's too taxing on the Kuro's processing.

However throw up the fast scrolling titles on Spicks & Specks & they are very hard to read, I think my 50inch Marantz handles the scrolling text better unless the ABC has sped up the titles more recently.

It's a double episode of House tonite (I think its the final one for the season too) so I'll have a good luck at the blurring if it exists. Well it may not be tonite as I'll record on the Beyonwiz & watch later.

Cheers Mark