Acoustic Door For Ht

[Chris McMahon]

I'm converting a formal dining room into a HT. It's a small room at 4.5m x 3.4m x 2.4m. About the size of an average bedroom. But that's the only space available, so I'll have to make do. I'm also on a tight budget.

At the moment the room has a single arch entry. I'm having that closed off and a door put it the opposite wall (so that I can put the screen where the arch used to be).

I'm planning on getting a plasterer to put another layer of plasterboard on the walls to help soundproof the room. I'm waiting on quotes to decide whether I'll go with 10mm plasterboard, 13mm SoundChek or 16mm FireChek. Possibility another layer on the ceiling as well. Really depends on price, which I have no idea about atm.

Anyway, my builder needs to know what type of door I want. I said to get a solid entry door to use as the new door. But should I go with an acoustic door? From a quick look online I've found a few suppliers, but none have prices. I don't know if they are $100 or $10,000. My builder hasn't heard of acoustic doors at all.

I see ratings like RW27 or RW47. I don't know if the scale is linear or logarithmic. I don't even know if I should be looking at the lower or upper end of the range, as from what I've read, there's no point over-spec'ing one item in a room as the sound will just leak out from the weakest link.

Can anyone give me an idea of what I should be looking at, and a ball-park idea of what they cost? Or even if I should just stick to a standard solid entry door

Thanks

Edited May 26, 2008 by Chris McMahon

[SimonNo10]

Sorry I can't help you Chris and I hope you find your anwser here. I too am after a door solution for a internal bi-folding door between my lounge room and hall way which when closed vibrates when the sub does it's thing. Not sure what my options are but keen to get some ideas. Sorry dont mean to take over your thread just dont want to create another one thats similar to yours. Why dont you e-mail these guys and get a qoute:

http://www.totalnoisecontrol.com.au/index.php?p=doors

Might be worth a shot.

[sold]

I see ratings like RW27 or RW47. I don't know if the scale is linear or logarithmic. I don't even know if I should be looking at the lower or upper end of the range, as from what I've read, there's no point over-spec'ing one item in a room as the sound will just leak out from the weakest link.

From the page that SimonNo10 linked to it appears to be a transmission loss figure in dB (weighted average of some sorts would be my guess), so it's a logarithmic scale but in real terms a 10dB increase corresponds roughly to a doubling in perceived loudness.

A quick look on AVS dug up the following PDF - http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/fulltext/ir761/ir761.pdf - which gives transmission loss figures for a variety of wall types. It should be able to give you a rough idea of what you would need from the door to match what you are getting from the walls.

Can't help you with pricing though.

[Wavetrain]

I'm converting a formal dining room into a HT. It's a small room at 4.5m x 3.4m x 2.4m. About the size of an average bedroom. But that's the only space available, so I'll have to make do. I'm also on a tight budget.

At the moment the room has a single arch entry. I'm having that closed off and a door put it the opposite wall (so that I can put the screen where the arch used to be).

I'm planning on getting a plasterer to put another layer of plasterboard on the walls to help soundproof the room. I'm waiting on quotes to decide whether I'll go with 10mm plasterboard, 13mm SoundChek or 16mm FireChek. Possibility another layer on the ceiling as well. Really depends on price, which I have no idea about atm.

Anyway, my builder needs to know what type of door I want. I said to get a solid entry door to use as the new door. But should I go with an acoustic door? From a quick look online I've found a few suppliers, but none have prices. I don't know if they are $100 or $10,000. My builder hasn't heard of acoustic doors at all.

I see ratings like RW27 or RW47. I don't know if the scale is linear or logarithmic. I don't even know if I should be looking at the lower or upper end of the range, as from what I've read, there's no point over-spec'ing one item in a room as the sound will just leak out from the weakest link.

Can anyone give me an idea of what I should be looking at, and a ball-park idea of what they cost? Or even if I should just stick to a standard solid entry door

Thanks

Hi Chris,

If you are doing an additional layer of plasterboard, just use another player of 10mm standard plasterboard and add a layer of Quiet Solutions Quietglue or GreenGlue (Quietglue is the same thing, but much cheaper). This would add approx $1,000 cost to your room, but give you an STC rating of STC47, with better bass performance, than palsterboard alone can provide.

I sell an acoustic door with CINEMA rebated into the door inc heavy duty Raven seals (inc threshold drop seal), which gives STC43. Approx cost for the door, inc seals and frame, but excluding door hardware is $2,000 RRP.

I would recommend putting in a floating floor or at the least, using a good quality carpet, with Bridgestone Premier pad underlay. This is a 14mm thick rag underlay, that will add absorptive mass to the room and make a massive difference to the rooms reverb. Especially important in a small room. Acoustic treatments will also make a massive difference.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

David

[Chris McMahon]

Sorry dont mean to take over your thread just dont want to create another one thats similar to yours.

No problem. I think having a range of options in the one thread will be helpful.

http://www.totalnoisecontrol.com.au/index.php?p=doors

Might be worth a shot.

Thanks. I've sent them an email asking for a rough idea of pricing, which just bounced "unknown user", I'll try their webform. If they reply, I'll post the info.

From the page that SimonNo10 linked to it appears to be a transmission loss figure in dB (weighted average of some sorts would be my guess), so it's a logarithmic scale but in real terms a 10dB increase corresponds roughly to a doubling in perceived loudness.

A quick look on AVS dug up the following PDF - http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/fulltext/ir761/ir761.pdf - which gives transmission loss figures for a variety of wall types. It should be able to give you a rough idea of what you would need from the door to match what you are getting from the walls.

Thanks. It looks like going from a single layer of plasterboard to a two-layer sandwich only adds 3db or so (STC 32 -page 19 -> STC 37 -page 23), which is disappointing. Also all their tests assume some type of in-wall insulation - which I don't have.

If you are doing an additional layer of plasterboard, just use another player of 10mm standard plasterboard and add a layer of Quiet Solutions Quietglue or GreenGlue (Quietglue is the same thing, but much cheaper). This would add approx $1,000 cost to your room, but give you an STC rating of STC47, with better bass performance, than plasterboard alone can provide.

Quietglue sounds interesting but I can't find any local info on it. Is it something any building materials supply place stocks, or do I have to import it myself? Is that $1,000 the cost of the plasterboard + glue + labour, plasterboard + glue, or just the glue?

I sell an acoustic door with CINEMA rebated into the door inc heavy duty Raven seals (inc threshold drop seal), which gives STC43. Approx cost for the door, inc seals and frame, but excluding door hardware is $2,000 RRP.

Ok, well it looks like an acoustic door is out of my budget, at around 10-15 times the cost of a standard solid door. I guess I was naively hoping that they were at most 2-3 times the cost of a solid door. I suppose I could always add one later if funds allow.

I would recommend putting in a floating floor or at the least, using a good quality carpet, with Bridgestone Premier pad underlay. This is a 14mm thick rag underlay, that will add absorptive mass to the room and make a massive difference to the rooms reverb. Especially important in a small room. Acoustic treatments will also make a massive difference.

A floating floor sounds expensive, but I'll look into that Bridgestone product. I was hoping to replacing the carpet anyway, depending on other expenses.

Hope that helps.

It does. Thanks.

[50mxe20]

A couple of people in this thread have suggested the cheapest solution is solid wood doors and draft catchers.

Also (I have not read all of this thread) have your read through this thread?

Soundproofing Of Theatre Room

[Wavetrain]

No problem. I think having a range of options in the one thread will be helpful.

Thanks. I've sent them an email asking for a rough idea of pricing, which just bounced "unknown user", I'll try their webform. If they reply, I'll post the info.

Thanks. It looks like going from a single layer of plasterboard to a two-layer sandwich only adds 3db or so (STC 32 -page 19 -> STC 37 -page 23), which is disappointing. Also all their tests assume some type of in-wall insulation - which I don't have.

Quietglue sounds interesting but I can't find any local info on it. Is it something any building materials supply place stocks, or do I have to import it myself? Is that $1,000 the cost of the plasterboard + glue + labour, plasterboard + glue, or just the glue?

Ok, well it looks like an acoustic door is out of my budget, at around 10-15 times the cost of a standard solid door. I guess I was naively hoping that they were at most 2-3 times the cost of a solid door. I suppose I could always add one later if funds allow.

A floating floor sounds expensive, but I'll look into that Bridgestone product. I was hoping to replacing the carpet anyway, depending on other expenses.

It does. Thanks.

Hi Chris,

I am the Australian distributor for Quiet Solutions products. What I gave you was an estimate only. Once I get back to work, I willl be able to give you an exact price to do you room.

The reason specialist sound isolation doors are expensive, is that as you have discovered, to make constant gains in transmission loss requires a doubling of mass each time. This is obviously not feasible. The doors I make using a sandwich of dense materials, inc multiple layers of QuietGlue, which allows us to get to this rating in a single leaf door. I have a solid timber door at work and the difference between the to is huge. You only have to tap the door to hear the difference.

That being said, if you don't have insulation in the wall, then you are not going to be getting such a high STC rating and may be better off using a solid core door and just ensuring you correctly seal it off (give Raven a call for assistance). The Quietglue will still make a significant gain for your room however, regardless of insualtion or not as the attenuation occurs primarily within the two sheets of plasterboard. It is also important to seal off all the gaps in the room, inc power points, downlights, etc.

Regards,

David

[50mxe20]

David

Ceilings must be a major issue too?

What do your recommend for them?

[Mining Man]

What about hanging two standard doors in the one door frame - one swinging out and one swinging in? Hinge them on opposite sides and use low profile door handles on the inside surfaces.

I bet the 1" air gap in between would be a pretty good silencer...

[50mxe20]

What about hanging two standard doors in the one door frame - one swinging out and one swinging in? Hinge them on opposite sides and use low profile door handles on the inside surfaces.

I bet the 1" air gap in between would be a pretty good silencer...

Plenty of sun and plenty of flies. God I've missed Australia!!

You should get plenty of that where you're working.

[Mining Man]

Plenty of sun and plenty of flies. God I've missed Australia!!

You should get plenty of that where you're working.

Loving it!!

Although I just worked my first weekend for over a year. Can't believe I used to do 2 & 1 without complaint...

[Wavetrain]

David

Ceilings must be a major issue too?

What do your recommend for them?

In this instance I would use 2 layers of plasterboard, with Quietglue and then R3.5 ceiling insulation. If you wanted to get a better system (not required here)on top of that, you could roll out Soundguards - 'Wavebar 8kg/m2', which is a mass loaded vinyl in the roof cavity. This would form the ceiling cavity and mass loaded vinyl as a limp mass is also good at helping to stop low freq transmission (it is less efecttive in a wall). You would need to tape off all the joints as per Soundguards spec.

Air lock doors are effective, but typically you would isolate between the door leafs and the larger the cavity, the better the result. In this instance, with his lack of insulation in the walls, he is better off starting with a solid core door and sealing it off, inc threshold drop seal. Very few houses seal off the rooms properly. Not sealing off the door threshold can equate to a drop in STC rating of approx 10dB. Significant. The same goes for powerpoints, light fittings, etc.

Regards,

Edited May 27, 2008 by Wavetrain

[50mxe20]

Looking for cheap but effective ways of getting an acoustic seal on doors I came across this site.

With this video.

[Brad Cl]

Wavetrain,

Can you recomend an effective way of sealing powerpoints and wall plates.

I was thinking of using expanding foam o fill in the cutout in the gyprock. Is ths worthwhile?

Brad

[50mxe20]

Can you recomend an effective way of sealing powerpoints and wall plates.

I was thinking of using expanding foam o fill in the cutout in the gyprock. Is ths worthwhile?

Good question. I'd like to know too.

[brodricj]

I was thinking of using expanding foam o fill in the cutout in the gyprock. Is ths worthwhile?

NO, you CAN'T do that. The expanding foam can cause the gyprock to bulge significantly and it will look awful.

[brodricj]

I'm planning on getting a plasterer to put another layer of plasterboard on the walls to help soundproof the room. I'm waiting on quotes to decide whether I'll go with 10mm plasterboard, 13mm SoundChek or 16mm FireChek. Possibility another layer on the ceiling as well. Really depends on price, which I have no idea about atm.

These questions have been asked here many times before. Do the ceiling in 10mm or 13mm SoundChek, get the plasterer to use green glue instead of blue stud adhesive. I wouldn't worry about another layer of plasterboard on the walls. Use an acoustic paneling system instead, there are plenty of options out there. You can do the acoustic panels yourself and save $$$.

Anyway, my builder needs to know what type of door I want. I said to get a solid entry door to use as the new door. But should I go with an acoustic door? From a quick look online I've found a few suppliers, but none have prices. I don't know if they are $100 or $10,000. My builder hasn't heard of acoustic doors at all.

You need a 40mm solid readicoat door (Hume or Corinthian make them, that's the one made from layers of MDF, not pine). Bond a slab of 16mm MDF to one side with green glue. You'll need a Raven drop down door seal mitred into the foot of the door. You'll need a Fielder's "split" steel door frame set with 3 100x100mm hinge slots tapped with M6 thread, but without the door jamb profile (for the jambs and the head you'll need to mount a raven heavy duty adjustable seal). On the backside of the frame spray it with body deadener and fill the cavity with SoundScreen. You'll have very limited door handle hardware options with a door that thick, but you can use 2 heavy duty roller catches with great effect. Use Gainsborough architectural hinges with bearings. Budget as follows:

door frame: $200

seals: $300

hardware: $150

door: $100

MDF: $40

Miscellaneous (body deadener, greenglue, Soundscreen etc) $100

You can do all this yourself. If you don't have the tools you can buy what you need much cheaper than what it will cost you for getting someone to do it.

[Guest Peter the Greek]

get the plasterer to use green glue instead of blue stud adhesive. I wouldn't worry about another layer of plasterboard on the walls. Use an acoustic paneling system instead, there are plenty of options out there. You can do the acoustic panels yourself and save $$$.

I was googling to see if there were any new green glue suppliers and I came across this, cant let it go through to the keeper. I hope the OP hasn't built his room yet.

1. Green glue aint glue - you need to attach the first layer of plaster to the studs with a construction grade adhesive or normal studd adhesive.

2. If you're soundproofing mass is good (not so great for acoustics, but we'll leave that alone for now). Green glue is designed to work between two layers of sheets, not on studds, so you need 2 at a minimum.

3. AND MOST OF ALL, Acoustic treatments do SFA for soundproofing, none, nada, nothing.

Look at www.soundproofingcompany.com and then get a copy of Floyd Tooles new book called Sound Reproduction - it'll tell you about treatments properly, backed up with science from a god in the industry not some hack on a forum.

[pommybloke]

Also (I have not read all of this thread) have your read through this thread?

Soundproofing Of Theatre Room

Cool, didnt know my thread was still kicking around !!