bwcoaster Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Hi, Just recently Channel 10 has gotten worse at night. All other channels are still fine. This happened at a probably similar time last year. Could it be the cold weather somehow affecting things??? Last year it was at about 8:30pm that things got bad. This year it may be a little later...It is making channel 10 unwatchable. I live at Carlingford, and am using an internal antenna - but have not moved it from how it was when it was working a couple of weeks ago. (Since it degraded, I have tried adjusting a little, but to no success.....) Does anyone have any ideas?? Thanks, B
mtv Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Yes, atmospheric changes affect reception. Signals vary all the time, that's why we need to have sufficient signal 'in reserve' abouve the minimum threshold, so when signals do drop, there is still sufficient quality signal to maintain reliable digital reception. Your most likely your problem is that your signals are just abouve the 'digital cliff edge' and variations in weather cause them to 'drop off the edge' resulting in loss of reception. Using an indoor antenna makes this problem worse, with signals bouncing off walls/floors/ceilings/furniture and people, so the likely solution is to install a roof-mounted antenna. If this is not possible, relocating the indoor antenna, or changing it to an amplified model may help. It's almost impossible to advise without accurate signal measurements.
digitalj Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Hi,Just recently Channel 10 has gotten worse at night. All other channels are still fine. This happened at a probably similar time last year. Could it be the cold weather somehow affecting things??? Last year it was at about 8:30pm that things got bad. This year it may be a little later...It is making channel 10 unwatchable. I live at Carlingford, and am using an internal antenna - but have not moved it from how it was when it was working a couple of weeks ago. (Since it degraded, I have tried adjusting a little, but to no success.....) Does anyone have any ideas?? Thanks, B I'm next door to you in Beecroft, I get TEN perfectly on Rabbit Ears!
bwcoaster Posted May 23, 2008 Author Posted May 23, 2008 I'm next door to you in Beecroft, I get TEN perfectly on Rabbit Ears! Thanks both - I will try playing with the antenna - position and placement and see if that helps. digitalj - I have an antenna like this ( dse antenna like mine) - what would be used for the Sydney channels, the rabbit ear part or the other part (or both)? Where are you pointing your antenna? Thanks, B
mtv Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Both sections are used. The short elements in a row are for UHF (SBS) and the telescopic elements are for all other channels. They should (in theory) operate best when placed horizontally. The antenna should face the transmitters at Artarmon/Willoughby/Gore Hill. Please be aware that just because another person says a particular type of antenna works for them, even if they are literally in the same house, does not mean the same antenna will work adequately in another part of the house. Even slight movement of an antenna can improve or degrade reception. Different receivers also respond differently to varying signals.
digitalj Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Thanks both - I will try playing with the antenna - position and placement and see if that helps.digitalj - I have an antenna like this ( dse antenna like mine) - what would be used for the Sydney channels, the rabbit ear part or the other part (or both)? Where are you pointing your antenna? Thanks, B Yep, that's the same indoor antenna I use. I don't just put it on top of the TV like most people do, I have mine on top of the book case in the same room and then run RG6 Quadshield to the STB, also, with the VHF Dipoles, I have them so that 3 sections are showing each side (i.e 3/5 or 3/6 sections showing per side, forget whether it's 5 or 6 sections per side. From your place, don't have the Indoor Antenna facing due East, it needs to be more ESE. I also have an angle of 6 degrees between the VHF and UHF parts, so that the UHF part is facing ABC Tower at Gore Hill, and face the VHF part to Willoughby as the Artarman Tower is almost exactly on the line between Willuoghby and here. I use a Digicrystal HDT-9300 which has a sensitive Tuner for tuning digital from the Rabbit Ears, My TEAC SD STB is hopeless at trying to decode some of the channels, I'll soon be getting a Healing HD STB which should perform better than my Digicrystal. You can get a Healing HD STB from Lacey's TV near Liverpool, but they won't have any for about 2 weeks.
bwcoaster Posted May 23, 2008 Author Posted May 23, 2008 Thanks again both - I don't really understand the way this works, and some of the terminology, so please forgive my ignorance.. .... also, with the VHF Dipoles, I have them so that 3 sections are showing each side (i.e 3/5 or 3/6 sections showing per side, forget whether it's 5 or 6 sections per side. I am guessing you mean the 2 extendible 'rabbit ear' parts? But you only pull out 3 of the extensions? Which part do you leave collapsed (The small or large ones)? Also, with this part, do you have them go up in a V or straight up in parallel? What sort of angle if you have a V? mtv - Just to clarify - the middle part of the antenna (the little parrallel bars with the rectangle), this is only for SBS? Also, when you say horizontal is best (in theory), are you also talking about the other 'rabbit ear' parts? Thanks, B
digitalj Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 I am guessing you mean the 2 extendible 'rabbit ear' parts? But you only pull out 3 of the extensions? Which part do you leave collapsed (The small or large ones)?Also, with this part, do you have them go up in a V or straight up in parallel? What sort of angle if you have a V? what I mean is have each dipole for VHF (the ones that can be shortened or lengthened) extended to 3/5 or 3/6 of their maximum length, i.e. not fully extended like some people do. Also, there is no V, both Dipoles have to be completely horizontal, i.e. parallel to the floor. Like look at the following: How Rabbit Ears Should be: __ or l How Rabbit Ears should not be: V in your instance, you want them to be the the first one.
bwcoaster Posted May 23, 2008 Author Posted May 23, 2008 in your instance, you want them to be the the first one. Thanks - I'll try this over the weekend.
mtv Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 mtv - Just to clarify - the middle part of the antenna (the little parrallel bars with the rectangle), this is only for SBS? Correct Also, when you say horizontal is best (in theory), are you also talking about the other 'rabbit ear' parts? Correct again. ALL the elements of the antenna (both the little parrallel bars with the rectangle AND the extendable rods) should be horizontal. This is to match the signals, which (in Sydney) are transmitted horizontally polarised. eg: the transmitting antennas are also set to horizontal.
bwcoaster Posted May 26, 2008 Author Posted May 26, 2008 Correct Thanks again to both of you - I managed to get this working successfully over the weekend by adjusting the internal antenna. Thanks for your assistance! B
alanh Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 digitalj Dipoles such as rabbits ears should be half wave in length for optimum reception AlanH
digitalj Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 digitaljDipoles such as rabbits ears should be half wave in length for optimum reception AlanH The measurement I've given is close to your recommended 74cm (all up) for band 3
mavric229 Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Does anyone have a problem with channel 7 or is it my cheep rabbits ears
mavric229 Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Does anyone have a problem with channel 7 or is it my cheep rabbits ears ***** SORRY double post *****
charlesc Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Does anyone have a problem with channel 7 or is it my cheep rabbits ears mavric229, you should be able to start your own threads now. You seem to be posting pretty unrelated queries in existing posts, like here on Gale speakers. I think you'd get better responses if your queries were better placed. EDIT: dbl post Edited June 24, 2008 by charlesc
tenticle56 Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Just recently... reception gotten worse at night.This happened at a probably similar time last year. Could it be the cold weather somehow affecting things??? I... have not moved it from how it was when it was working a couple of weeks ago. (Since it degraded, I have tried adjusting a little, but to no success.....) I am having the exact same issue. It seems to be affecting all stations, both digital and analogue... except for SBS analogue for some reason. Even just a couple of weeks ago, I was able to watch Winbledon on 9 digital in the early hours of the morning without issue. Now trying to watch the Tour de France each night on digital is completely impossible. Switching to any other station at the time - including 9 digital - is just as bad. (Luckily, SBS analogue is the only thing that does work!). The exact same thing happened at exactly this time last year (ie, between Wimbledon and the Tour de France). Last year it seemed to just fix itself after a month or so. I'd like to understand what is causing it. I am in the southern suburbs about 40kms from the towers. I know my reception probably isn't ever ideal anyway and that's why it's dropping away completely now. But this is the only time I ever seem to have a problem. Edited July 19, 2008 by tenticle56
alanh Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 tenticle56, You do not describe where you are and whether you are using an indoor antenna. I suspect that if you are using an indoor antenna that the moisture on the roof is the problem, antennas need to be above the roof to stop this. The only other possibility is interference. Read Get the Best Reception, Sydney and read the links. AlanH
tenticle56 Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Thanks for such a speedy response, alanh :) I am in the Shire area, Jannali to be exact. I am in an apartment complex with a shared external antenna. My neighbours downstairs have checked for me and found similar problems (they are elderly and do not normally watch TV late at night). I reported all this to strata management but they say the antenna system is fine and will not look into it furher... that's why I am trying to underastand myself what the problem might be. Edited July 19, 2008 by tenticle56
digitalj Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Thanks for such a speedy response, alanh :)I am in the Shire area, Jannali to be exact. I am in an apartment complex with a shared external antenna. My neighbours downstairs have checked for me and found similar problems (they are elderly and do not normally watch TV late at night). I reported all this to strata management but they say the antenna system is fine and will not look into it furher... that's why I am trying to underastand myself what the problem might be. since it's happening during Winter Each Year, I'd say your problem is most likely reduced signal strength/quality compared to other times of the year, the antenna on the roof needs to be mounted better to Pick up stronger signals so that when this happens in winter, they don't drop below the minimum of the operating window of the STB.
mtv Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I reported all this to strata management but they say the antenna system is fine and will not look into it furher. How did they determine the antenna system is fine? (because it seems it isn't) The only way to correctly determine the robustness of digital signals is with a digital field strength meter, to read the channel power and Bit Error Ratio (BER). Jannali varies in signal strength/quality..... as suggested, your signals are probably on the minimum acceptable level/quality most of the time, then with atmospheric changes, they drop below the threshold, causing loss of reception. Idealy, the entire system needs to be checked/improved, however, a small amplifier in your apartment may provide just enough improvement for you, without the need to talk to 'deaf ears'
tenticle56 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) How did they determine the antenna system is fine? (because it seems it isn't) The strata manager says they sent a trademan out last Wednedsay after my original request. I guess that was during the day while I was at work. since it's happening during Winter Each Year, I'd say your problem is most likely reduced signal strength/quality... the antenna on the roof needs to be mounted better The bad reception on analogue just seems to be salt and pepper/snow, not ghosting or banding. Just wondreing, is there any reason SBS analogue wouldn't be affected like all the other stations? During the day - * all digital stations are about 9/10 * all analogue stations are about 7/10 After about 10pm - * all digital stations are about 1/10 * ABC/7/9/10 analogue are about 3/10 * SBS analogue stays about 7/10. I am really just trying to understand enough to have some ammunition to take back to the strata and hopefully convince them to investigate further. a small amplifier in your apartment may provide just enough improvement for you, without the need to talk to 'deaf ears' Yes, I really hope you may be right. Do you have any recommendations? Edited July 20, 2008 by tenticle56
sydney2218 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 The strata manager says they sent a trademan out last Wednedsay after my original request. I guess that was during the day while I was at work.The bad reception on analogue just seems to be salt and pepper/snow, not ghosting or banding. Just wondreing, is there any reason SBS analogue wouldn't be affected like all the other stations? During the day - * all digital stations are about 9/10 * all analogue stations are about 7/10 After about 10pm - * all digital stations are about 1/10 * ABC/7/9/10 analogue are about 3/10 * SBS analogue stays about 7/10. I am really just trying to understand enough to have some ammunition to take back to the strata and hopefully convince them to investigate further. Yes, I really hope you may be right. Do you have any recommendations? Like to help but what antenna are you using ? What are you receiving ,Wollongong UHF OR Sydney VHF/UHF channels.Where is the antenna pointing? Remember your tuner may be picking up VHF &/or UHF channels. Then all tuners are not equal in the way they handle varying signal strengths. I have had 5 Digital STBs /TVs are all are different. On some they are poor at UHF reception but fine on VHF.Plus our common antenna /MATV is very old & by luck i can get enough signal strength on UHF for SBS on 34 but too much on VHF ! You need to read a lot about Digital TV reception which is vastly different to the old system. You need to get an expert with the proper equipment to measure the signal strengths /BER etc or with some learning make do with what you have got. One big issue in Sydney is the duplication of LCNS thru various transmission sites. You have to see on your tuner what LCNs you are getting at proper strength & delete the bad ones. For instance i often see a STB default to UHF LCNS but they are not stable , falling above or below the "Digital Cliff" levels at various times & vice versa. Seven for example is on RF 6 & 45. Your antenna may be just a VHF antenna with a small UHF section for the old SBS on 28 or just an UHF pointing to KINGS CROSS /Wollongong. There are specialist installers in your area if you need help.
charlesc Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 The bad reception on analogue just seems to be salt and pepper/snow, not ghosting or banding. Just wondreing, is there any reason SBS analogue wouldn't be affected like all the other stations?During the day - * all digital stations are about 9/10 * all analogue stations are about 7/10 After about 10pm - * all digital stations are about 1/10 * ABC/7/9/10 analogue are about 3/10 * SBS analogue stays about 7/10. That drop in the evening does seem very high. I am really just trying to understand enough to have some ammunition to take back to the strata and hopefully convince them to investigate further. Grab these pdf documents, they will hopefully go a fair way to expalining what is required for good digital reception. Guides to Digital TV Installation (these were on the old dba.org website). Guide 1: (pdf) 'Installing Digital Terrestrial Television Basic Domestic Systems' Guide 2: (pdf) 'Installing Digital Terrestrial Television Domestic Systems' (more detailed)
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