kwarrior Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Hello All, First a big thanks to many contributors on this forum....so many of my decisions to upgrade my HT came from here...and it will not be amiss if I mention a few names...... Momaw, PQDownload, cwt, Alebonau, Kazz, Lyle, Foxtail (and great HDMI cables too, mate!!).... I own a Pioneer Blu Ray and it does a real class job with Blu Ray....also, because it is region free (as most of my SD DVDs are Region 1) it plays these....however, on my Pio Kuro 50", the SD DVD looks exactly like it is !! Pretty crappy video quality..however, the reason for buying the Pio Blu Ray was, indeed, to play Blu Ray...so that is fine... The Question (and forgive me if this sounds awful!!)....can you compare the output of a SD DVD on the Pio with the output from the Oppo 983 (for PQ & SQ) ? I think Alebonau has both pieces of equipment ? OR Do I really need an Oppo if the Pio plays SD DVD (That should be the question, I think !! Pros and Cons?) Would certainly apprecaite your thoughts, guys !!
The D-Train Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Kwarrior I dont class myself in the same knowledge category as the names mentioned above but i have the lx70a. For SD DVD I dont find it anything special. I believe the XE1 was compared to the LX70A and killed it for upscaling. Then the XE1 was compared to the 983 and the latter killed that. Mo has created a thread below for the 983. I believe it had a sound drop out problem but that has now been fixed via firmware. http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=65225 In any event i will be getting one of the next 983's as will Al and a few others who have the LX70a. cheers
momaw Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Well, I can't compare the output of the Pio to the Oppo, but I can compare the output of the XE1, the PS3, and various other DVD players to the oppo. Oppo wins. So what it comes down to is , are you prepared to pay the approx $500 to get some more PQ out of your DVD's. Now compared to every player I've had and tested (excluding the XE1 and including the PS3 fully firmwared up to date), this picture quality increase is very prominant. But, the catch is, you may not notice it at first. What I have found is that after HD, any DVD is gonna look lacking, so if you buy the Oppo thinking you are going to get a massive increase you will be disappointed. Only HD is gonna look like HD. but if you then try and go back to one of the other DVD players, you will discover the magic the oppo was performing. Don't get me wrong, with realistic expectations of what a DVD player can do, you will be very impressed from the get go. but if your yard stick is HD, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Now coming back to the XE1. It is a great upscaler and if you go from that to the Oppo you will find greater definition of the details and less noise and artefacting on larger TV screens. The Oppo handles poor DVD transfers extremely well, better than any other DVD player which is a strength. Now given no DVD player will give you HD picture, are you prepared to pay $500 for a noticible improvement, but one that is still behind your HD discs? To me, having a very large DVD collection, a very nice (in my opinon) panel and setup, the choice was easy.
kwarrior Posted May 13, 2008 Author Posted May 13, 2008 Well, I can't compare the output of the Pio to the Oppo, but I can compare the output of the XE1, the PS3, and various other DVD players to the oppo.Oppo wins. So what it comes down to is , are you prepared to pay the approx $500 to get some more PQ out of your DVD's. Now compared to every player I've had and tested (excluding the XE1 and including the PS3 fully firmwared up to date), this picture quality increase is very prominant. But, the catch is, you may not notice it at first. What I have found is that after HD, any DVD is gonna look lacking, so if you buy the Oppo thinking you are going to get a massive increase you will be disappointed. Only HD is gonna look like HD. but if you then try and go back to one of the other DVD players, you will discover the magic the oppo was performing. Don't get me wrong, with realistic expectations of what a DVD player can do, you will be very impressed from the get go. but if your yard stick is HD, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Now coming back to the XE1. It is a great upscaler and if you go from that to the Oppo you will find greater definition of the details and less noise and artefacting on larger TV screens. The Oppo handles poor DVD transfers extremely well, better than any other DVD player which is a strength. Now given no DVD player will give you HD picture, are you prepared to pay $500 for a noticible improvement, but one that is still behind your HD discs? To me, having a very large DVD collection, a very nice (in my opinon) panel and setup, the choice was easy. Thanks Momaw and D-Train (I have read several of your comments on this forum too, mate...thanks!!) I have about a 100 SD DVDs most of them music Concerts....and they now look pretty ordinary with my Hi Def Plasma... The money isnt the issue, just want to be sure, that the move to the Oppo will result in better SD DVD display...then what I get with my old Sony DVD player and/or Pio Blu Ray... I appreciate your response...I have touched base with Merlin Audio, asking when he will receive his next batch and what he plans on pricing this... Thanks once again.... Kris
cwt Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 The oppo would be superior as Mo implies k warrior [seperate deinterlacing/scaling chips] . Al has said in the past I believe the sd playback of his 70a is adequate. What you should do is output the sd from the 70a with the source direct mode [hdmi 576i] so the kuro plasma can do the deinterlace/scale by itself . The newest kuro's have very good video processing so see what you think . Its a value question as mentioned - do you want sacd/dvd audio playback ?
kwarrior Posted May 13, 2008 Author Posted May 13, 2008 The oppo would be superior as Mo implies k warrior [seperate deinterlacing/scaling chips] . Al has said in the past I believe the sd playback of his 70a is adequate. What you should do is output the sd from the 70a with the source direct mode [hdmi 576i] so the kuro plasma can do the deinterlace/scale by itself . The newest kuro's have very good video processing so see what you think . Its a value question as mentioned - do you want sacd/dvd audio playback ? Thanks for coming 'in', cwt...... I am doing exactly what you have suggested above (except that I route it via my AVR - Yamaha 3800)....that is the best I have got out of the old SD DVDs.... I know that I will never get HD quality video, but the issue was whether the Oppo will give me a better video quality, then what I get by passing the output from the 70A, source direct 567i, and let the plasma do its thing !! Yes, Al did mention it being adequate, but in comparison....there was that niggling thought, that maybe, just maybe, I am missing something without the Oppo !!! And no, I dont have any SACD nor DVD Audio discs...so that is not an issue... Cheers, mate....
momaw Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks Momaw and D-Train (I have read several of your comments on this forum too, mate...thanks!!)I have about a 100 SD DVDs most of them music Concerts....and they now look pretty ordinary with my Hi Def Plasma... The money isnt the issue, just want to be sure, that the move to the Oppo will result in better SD DVD display...then what I get with my old Sony DVD player and/or Pio Blu Ray... I appreciate your response...I have touched base with Merlin Audio, asking when he will receive his next batch and what he plans on pricing this... Thanks once again.... Kris Perhaps another forum member with a 983 in melbourne can offer a demo..... You're welcome to come see mine - bit of a drive though.
Volunteer Kazz Posted May 13, 2008 Volunteer Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks for coming 'in', cwt......I am doing exactly what you have suggested above (except that I route it via my AVR - Yamaha 3800)....that is the best I have got out of the old SD DVDs.... I know that I will never get HD quality video, but the issue was whether the Oppo will give me a better video quality, then what I get by passing the output from the 70A, source direct 567i, and let the plasma do its thing !! Yes, Al did mention it being adequate, but in comparison....there was that niggling thought, that maybe, just maybe, I am missing something without the Oppo !!! And no, I dont have any SACD nor DVD Audio discs...so that is not an issue... Cheers, mate.... I've ordered an Oppo from Merlin, I trust Mo's judgement as far as the PQ goes and I have a fairly large SD collection and want the best PQ for use with the PJ.
uneedit5 Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 How much did people pay for the Oppo in the first batch from Merlin? Any word on the second batch? Website says late May.
momaw Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 How much did people pay for the Oppo in the first batch from Merlin?Any word on the second batch? Website says late May. They were $450 delivered, but I picked mine up for a little less. Next batch will be at least $500 as the price has gone up to $399 US.
The D-Train Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) How much did people pay for the Oppo in the first batch from Merlin?Any word on the second batch? Website says late May. last one was 450 aud delivered from memory. The latest will about that much US dollars. late may/early june is the go EDIT: the quick and the dead.......and im dead. Edited May 13, 2008 by The D-train
Struggo Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 last one was 450 aud delivered from memory.The latest will about that much US dollars. late may/early june is the go EDIT: the quick and the dead.......and im dead. Current info on Merlin site, Our Price: will match US price - calculated daily. Please enquire on price & availability Product Comparison Chart with Oppo Recommendations DV-980H Universal 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player (HDMI) Outstanding Audio Performance with 7.1CH HD Up-Conversion to 720p/1080i/1080p SACD, DVD-Audio/Video, DivX & Much More DSD/PCM over HDMI HD Photo Slide Show USB 2.0 Port Amazing With Older CRT TVs Data Sheet DV-980H US Price: $231.50 USD (includes freight) DV-981HD Universal 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player (HDMI) Built Upon Highly Regarded OPDV971H HD Up-Conversion to 720p/1080i/1080p SACD, DVD-Audio/Video & Much More DCDi by Faroudja HDMI Cable Included DivX Certified DV-981HD US Price: $288 USD (includes freight) DV-983H Universal 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player (HDMI) VRS™ by Anchor Bay Video Processing Exceptional Picture and Sound Quality 7.1CH, Dolby Digital EX & DTS Decoding SACD & DVD-Audio/Video USB 2.0 Port & HD Photo RS232 & IR IN/OUT DV-983H US Price: $459 USD (includes freight) http://www.merlinaudiodesign.com.au/First_frame.html Cheers Struggo
The D-Train Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 That makes the 983, $487-00 AUD delivered by todays rates.
betty boop Posted May 13, 2008 Posted May 13, 2008 hi k, the pio is adequate, I use it as dvd player now, but its not upto the pq standard of the xe1 I used to also own. with the oppo superior to the xe1 for dvd looking forward to getting one. like mo dvd still important to me, still got a few dvds in my collection plus many foreign films plus rentals still on dvd. though not just getting it for dvd looking forward to its multichannel ailities as well.
kwarrior Posted June 16, 2008 Author Posted June 16, 2008 Hi all... Going to take this thread to a slightly different direction..."CALIBRATION" !!! On Wed 11th, I had Aaron from Avical come over and help with my Pio KURO Calibration.... Now, briefly, here is what I have in my setup... - The Oppo 983 - The Pio LX70A Blu Ray - Digitalview DVR 810 - Yamaha 3800 AVR - And the KURO 50" Plasma... First..Aaron asked me to disconnect my Oppo Video (HDMI) from the Yamaha...and connect it directly to the Plasma on Input 3. Previously, I only had a singly HDMI input on the Plasma, coming from the Yamaha... Aaron's reasoning was...the Oppo is an excellent Scaler / deinterlacer and we should give it a chance to do its job...and so that he could calibrate the TV for the Oppo...which he eventually did... And Aaron also did the same with the LX70A ...calibrate it, I mean. And whilst doing that, using his Calibration discs, it was pretty obvious, that the LX70A just didnt have the quality to interpret SD DVDs... Because the Kuro is such a good scaler too....it masks some of the LX70As inadequacies... So, now, I have the Blu Ray (and the advise was to use it only for Blu Rays!!) on Input 4 HDMI (via the Yamaha) and the Oppo Video on Input 3 (HDMI)...on the Kuro.... And the TV is now calibrated....and looks terrific !! So all of you, who are contemplating calibrating your Plasmas...I would suggest go for it...it was worth its money, no question... Also, for us who own both the Oppo and the Pio LX70a, try connecting the video out from the Oppo to the TV directly (rather than via an AVR)...you will now be able to appreciate (if not already) the quality of the Oppo.
momaw Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Thanks for those finding K Warrior. As DVD doesn't have HD audio then directly connecting to the panel with an optical or coaxil to an AVR would work a treat. Alternatively (and I'm not sure if you discussed this with Aaron) if you can do a straight passthrough of video with no scaling applied by the AVR, you should be right too? I have the Marantz 7002 which passes the picture through directly with no scaling, so I wouldn't expect any difference to a direct connection to the panel.
Volunteer Kazz Posted June 16, 2008 Volunteer Posted June 16, 2008 Thanks for those finding K Warrior. As DVD doesn't have HD audio then directly connecting to the panel with an optical or coaxil to an AVR would work a treat. Alternatively (and I'm not sure if you discussed this with Aaron) if you can do a straight passthrough of video with no scaling applied by the AVR, you should be right too?I have the Marantz 7002 which passes the picture through directly with no scaling, so I wouldn't expect any difference to a direct connection to the panel. The Yammy 3800 which KW has as do I, can also pass the picture directly with no scaling, in fact you can't apply scaling at all on any HDMI sources. Thanks for the update KW.
momaw Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 You should post this is the oppo owners thread as some gave it quite the bashing over this.
kwarrior Posted June 16, 2008 Author Posted June 16, 2008 Thanks for those finding K Warrior. As DVD doesn't have HD audio then directly connecting to the panel with an optical or coaxil to an AVR would work a treat. Alternatively (and I'm not sure if you discussed this with Aaron) if you can do a straight passthrough of video with no scaling applied by the AVR, you should be right too?I have the Marantz 7002 which passes the picture through directly with no scaling, so I wouldn't expect any difference to a direct connection to the panel. Yes, Mo....connected the Audio via Optical to the Yammi.... And...the direct connection of the Oppo to the Plasma was so that Aaron could calibrate the display for SD DVDs...mind you, what was quite evident, was that it was only a "tweak" one way or the other, when compared to the LX70A!! The Yammy 3800 which KW has as do I, can also pass the picture directly with no scaling, in fact you can't apply scaling at all on any HDMI sources.Thanks for the update KW. Thx, Kazz....true....but what Aaron wanted to do was to have a seperate input for the Video (from the Oppo) so that he could calibrate that slightly separate from the Pio. You should post this is the oppo owners thread as some gave it quite the bashing over this. I see that you have this quoted, Mo...thanks for that....
The D-Train Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Thanks for posting Kwarrior. Interesting point re running the oppo straight to the panel. Obviously as stated by mo another optical/coaxial is needed for sound to the avr. I dont think I have any option on my AVR re turning on/off scaling via HDMI which backs up what kazz states. I did a search on the manual via PDF file and found only one mention in the 100 odd pages Also, the built-in digital video converter of this receivermakes both de-interlacing and up-scaling possible, and analog video signals being input are converted and output as digital video signals at the HDMI terminal. It has a digital video scaler light on the front which is never lit so I assume its not doing any scaling. So how was the difference Kwarrior after calibration, chalk and cheese or smaller than that?
kwarrior Posted June 16, 2008 Author Posted June 16, 2008 So how was the difference Kwarrior after calibration, chalk and cheese or smaller than that? D-T, here is, IMHO (and amateurish) ...some of my findings AFTER calibration - Not all pictures need to be 'sharp' to be enjoyed !! - Colour and hues of people, greys and blacks, brightness and contrast...all look so much more realistic than before.. - The ambient light has a lot to do with it....Aaron calibrated my entire setup after drawing in all the curtains...(my HT pics would have shown how I have a couple of large windows which let in light)..his reasoning was that the 'automatic light sensor' on the Kuro allows the picture to be 'turned' brighter if there is less light but doesnt do the reverse...and he turned that feature 'off' !!! Happy...yes, indeed, very happy !! And he took the trouble to explain several things to me...
kwarrior Posted June 16, 2008 Author Posted June 16, 2008 Alternatively (and I'm not sure if you discussed this with Aaron) if you can do a straight passthrough of video with no scaling applied by the AVR, you should be right too? Sorry Mo..not sure if I answered you on this...the reason for it was so that Aaron could calibrate the Video seperately ...if he did it, like it was, ie all passed via the AVR..then ONE calibration was needed to FIT ALL my sources...and that wouldnt work too well with the Blu Ray...and I can see his point after he finished with the calibration... My Oppo pics are so much better than when I first had it, and 'tweaked' it myself...Aaron, in fact, reset all of the options on the Oppo back to default...and said he would alter things on the Kuro.
The D-Train Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 D-T, here is, IMHO (and amateurish) ...some of my findings AFTER calibration- Not all pictures need to be 'sharp' to be enjoyed !! - Colour and hues of people, greys and blacks, brightness and contrast...all look so much more realistic than before.. - The ambient light has a lot to do with it....Aaron calibrated my entire setup after drawing in all the curtains...(my HT pics would have shown how I have a couple of large windows which let in light)..his reasoning was that the 'automatic light sensor' on the Kuro allows the picture to be 'turned' brighter if there is less light but doesnt do the reverse...and he turned that feature 'off' !!! Happy...yes, indeed, very happy !! And he took the trouble to explain several things to me... thanks mate, and thanks for sharing your experiences here.
Volunteer Kazz Posted June 16, 2008 Volunteer Posted June 16, 2008 Sorry Mo..not sure if I answered you on this...the reason for it was so that Aaron could calibrate the Video seperately ...if he did it, like it was, ie all passed via the AVR..then ONE calibration was needed to FIT ALL my sources...and that wouldnt work too well with the Blu Ray...and I can see his point after he finished with the calibration...My Oppo pics are so much better than when I first had it, and 'tweaked' it myself...Aaron, in fact, reset all of the options on the Oppo back to default...and said he would alter things on the Kuro. Unfortunately as I have both the PJ and the TV I can't run the video straight to either, especially given I have three sources in the PS3, XE1 and Oppo.
The D-Train Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Sorry Mo..not sure if I answered you on this...the reason for it was so that Aaron could calibrate the Video seperately ...if he did it, like it was, ie all passed via the AVR..then ONE calibration was needed to FIT ALL my sources...and that wouldnt work too well with the Blu Ray...and I can see his point after he finished with the calibration...My Oppo pics are so much better than when I first had it, and 'tweaked' it myself...Aaron, in fact, reset all of the options on the Oppo back to default...and said he would alter things on the Kuro. Thats interesting, so it looks like he calibrates the panel on multiple inputs to get the most out of the source as opposed to calibrating the actual players. It makes sense when you think about it.
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