Denon Universal Dvd 2930 & Dac

[akseland]

Hi All..

I have just finished installing a Rotel RB-1080 2 Channel into my HT system for better CD audio. I would have to say I am a 50/50 with music and movies hence the insertion of the 2 Channel. My fronts were previously powered by Rotel RMB-1075, 5 Channel. The 1075 now just powers the centre and rears.

The 1080 has made a big difference to my listening experience with CD and Movies, no regrets.

I am looking to further increase my listening experience by either buying a dedicated CD player or purchase a really good DAC.

I am not too versed on DAC's, Transports and Power Supplies. I have read a few articles on how DAC's can greatly improve very average DVD and CD players. I also know there are different types of DAC's.

On the Denon website the 2930 has by the looks of it 4 x 192-kHz / 24-bit (Burr Brown PCM1791) DAC's. I can hear the Denon 2930 working when playing a CD

so from my experience I believe that makes it a noisy transport and that may be a deciding factor to buy a ' quiet / mechanical noise free ' CD player.

I am trying to get the best possible ' Sound 4 Pound ' as one English article put it. Instead of buying another transport ie (CD) player it suggested to add a DAC.

So, that's what I have decided to possibly do.

From my understanding the DAC's are pretty good in the Denon, so I am curious to know how good a DAC must I buy to once again make a noticeable difference to CD audio bearing in mind the quality of the Denon.

I was looking at spending up to $1500 on a CD player or DAC. A second hand Arcam CD36 is not out of the question or even an Arcam FMJ DV139 Universal, but then I would probably not have to buy a DAC if any of those products were purchased.

Any thoughts, dilemmas, experiences with adding a DAC to 2930 ..? or similar would be greatly appreciated..

Thank You.

Akseland.

Edited May 12, 2008 by akseland

[Puss in Books]

If you hear mechanical noise with the Denon, then adding a DAC won't improve the situation. I think you would be better and cheaper off if you just opt for buying a decent CD player.

[gat474]

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=66341

Check out this link to the Droplet cdp for sale in Melbourne. Having used a number of cd players over the years and also a number of very good dacs combined with dedicated cd transports I can say that when I tried a droplet in my system I was blown away. I'd have bought JohnA's but I'd already ordered a new one from Osborn loudspeakers. This cd player will blow away your dvd player on cd and I can't see any dac with your cdp even coming close to the droplet.

You would not be dissapointed.

[50mxe20]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about DACs today in this thread

Xe1 Audio Performance

Comparing this to CDs etc.

Makes for an interesting read and you can get sone information on what AVR's use what DAC, etc.

[akseland]

If you hear mechanical noise with the Denon, then adding a DAC won't improve the situation. I think you would be better and cheaper off if you just opt for buying a decent CD player.

I was looking at the Arcam CD73T for $899.00 retail. I wonder if it would sound distinctly better than the 2930..? The improvement I am looking for is what I gained by listening to music through a 2 channel as opposed to a 5 channel. The difference for me was ' Night & Day '. Seeking that again, but can the CD73 give me that or do I need to spend 2 or even 3 times that amount to achieve that..?

I really should put the 2930 up against some CD players I am interested in.

Thanks for you help.

[akseland]

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=66341

Check out this link to the Droplet cdp for sale in Melbourne. Having used a number of cd players over the years and also a number of very good dacs combined with dedicated cd transports I can say that when I tried a droplet in my system I was blown away. I'd have bought JohnA's but I'd already ordered a new one from Osborn loudspeakers. This cd player will blow away your dvd player on cd and I can't see any dac with your cdp even coming close to the droplet.

You would not be dissapointed.

Thanks for the link, I will investigate. I had a quick look at the picture and looks as though it will sound ' Oh so Sweet ..! '

Akseland

[akseland]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about DACs today in this thread

Xe1 Audio Performance

Comparing this to CDs etc.

Makes for an interesting read and you can get sone information on what AVR's use what DAC, etc.

Thanks Lyle..

I've been following that thread myself and I agree it is interesting, appropriate and timely reading. I have an XE-1 myself and have considered using it as a CD player, however I could not bear to listen to ambient passages with the fan whirling away, fan noise is acceptable for HD. From my understanding, the DAC's in the XE-1 are rather good. Toshiba built a very good HD DVD player.. One can only imagine what might have been farther down the track..!

Thanks Akseland

[gat474]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about DACs today in this thread

Xe1 Audio Performance

Comparing this to CDs etc.

Makes for an interesting read and you can get sone information on what AVR's use what DAC, etc.

I've also got an XE-1 and it's not near as good as the droplet on cd performance. I did a quick gogle search of the dacs the xe1 has and they are used in the mid range Cambridge players so I guess that's what comes out of the xe1. Besides given the xe1 is now a collector's piece I wouldn't want to wear out the machine on cd's.

[Gutty]

Just a quick FYI.

I recently sold my Yamaha S1700 universal(which i rated similar to or slightly below the Denon offerings) in favour of a Cambridge Audio 640C CD player, and although i've lost DVD-A and SACD playback, not to mention a great DVD player, I'd have no hesitation doing it again. The CA 640C literally stomps the Yamaha universal for CD playback, and i imagine it would do similar up against the Denon

[Puss in Books]

I was looking at the Arcam CD73T for $899.00 retail. I wonder if it would sound distinctly better than the 2930..? The improvement I am looking for is what I gained by listening to music through a 2 channel as opposed to a 5 channel. The difference for me was ' Night & Day '. Seeking that again, but can the CD73 give me that or do I need to spend 2 or even 3 times that amount to achieve that..?

I my view $600-$1000 represents the sweet spot for good value and good performance CDPs. Spending 2 to 3 times more doesn't give enough extra bang for your buck IMO.

Whether it will give you a "night & day" improvement over a DVD player only you can assess. I checked a few CDPs in that price range and ended up purchasing a Marantz cd6002 because it can also play WMAs which is a handy feature for me. I wouldn't say that it was a "night & day" improvement over my DVD player, but it was better.

VP

[Puss in Books]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about DACs today in this thread

Xe1 Audio Performance

Comparing this to CDs etc.

Makes for an interesting read and you can get sone information on what AVR's use what DAC, etc.

I've never understood the obsession with the brand/model DSP in players and equipment. Somehow I don't think a $10 component is going to be the defining quality of a ~$1000 piece of equipment.

VJP

[betty boop]

I was looking at the Arcam CD73T for $899.00 retail. I wonder if it would sound distinctly better than the 2930..? The improvement I am looking for is what I gained by listening to music through a 2 channel as opposed to a 5 channel. The difference for me was ' Night & Day '. Seeking that again, but can the CD73 give me that or do I need to spend 2 or even 3 times that amount to achieve that..?

I really should put the 2930 up against some CD players I am interested in.

Thanks for you help.

I would be pretty sure. I've done comparisons with the denon 3910 and denon 2900 vs a $600 cambridge players that has easily out run the universal players for cd re-play. I'd encourage you to demo vs some cd players. keep in mind too that cd replay and the results you get will also be a little dependant on the rest of your chain. ie whether whatever amp your using is revealing enough.

I've never understood the obsession with the brand/model DSP in players and equipment. Somehow I don't think a $10 component is going to be the defining quality of a ~$1000 piece of equipment.

VJP

I find it bizare too ! I keep saying to people its not just the components used but the actual implementation, however many others seem obviously obssesed with what ever base component was used.

I should demo them my decade plus old mf dac and watch the shock on their face when something as old as my dac with its basic sanyo chipset can sound as good as it does. perhaps they'll understand its not jsut a base component but how its implemented and all the stuff around it that can decide the result.

[norpus]

I really should put the 2930 up against some CD players I am interested in.

I agree this is what should be done

I started with a Denon universal , upgraded to outboard dac then to a dedicated cd transport. All upgrades were noticeably better to my system. However I have had Johna's Droplet in my system a couple of times before and I think it is slightly better again

If I were you I'd seriously consider it - its a very good sounding player and quite an eyecatcher too

[joz]

Just thought to mention that both Cambridge and Rega implement DSP chips into their spinners for a bit of extra flavour.Not sure how much extra they add to the units sonically but they do get a good wrap.

[akseland]

Hello All,

Thanks for your experienced input, it's appreciated. It looks as though a good CDP is the way to go. I keep reading it and hearing it from my friends, although I still like the idea and have my aching heart set on a one box machine, the Arcam FMJ DV139. It still wets my lips albeit no HDMI 1.3. Arcam are releasing new equipment in England very shortly so maybe it's a wait and see. It would be kind of fun mucking around with DAC's as that is something I have not experienced. If I had a much earlier universal I might be tempted to experiment with a DAC. I need to balance the CDP with my existing equipment, if it's not the DV139 then it will surely be a CDP from $600-$2000. The ' Droplet ' at 30 KG is just too heavy and unconventional for my liking. I have thought and read about Rega, Cambridge and others. What's really needed is a side by side audition of the 2930 against some of these players and that is what I will definitely end up doing. It's comforting to know others have experimented by adding a DAC to a 3910 and 2910 vs $600 Cambridge players, with the CDP coming out tops. That, to me sounds like I'll get the improvement I am once again looking for at a sensible price.

Thanking all of you for your input.

Cheers ..

Akseland.

Edited May 13, 2008 by akseland