Andre281503560612 Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 I have searched this and found a myriad of topics dealing with 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc, however i cant find the answer to this specific question. Basically i just wanted to know if standard dolby digital could be played through a 7.1 setup. I seem to only be able to get the 5.1 speakers going. Does the soundtrack have to be specifically encoded for 7.1 or is there a setting on an avr which can matrix the rear channels on a DD soundtrack to get a 7.1 effect.
The D-Train Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 Have a read through this thread and it should point you in the right direction. http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=64535 cheers
Andre281503560612 Posted May 5, 2008 Author Posted May 5, 2008 Thanks for that. I have a Yamaha 1800 however, and thus no THX i believe. Can i still get a DD track to play via 7.1?
loser Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 Thanks for that. I have a Yamaha 1800 however, and thus no THX i believe. Can i still get a DD track to play via 7.1? You need to set the external surround function to Pro-logic 11X, in fact Dolby recomends you use this function even for Dolby digital EX encoded tracks
Andre281503560612 Posted May 5, 2008 Author Posted May 5, 2008 Cheers, ill have a read of the manual and see if i can work it out, if not, its back to the noticeboard! I did have a look in the "manual setup" menu before, and it wasn't there, so i guess its elsewhere.
ajm1503559545 Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 Andre28, I think you've stumbled on the reason why a 7.1 setup is a bit of a w__k to be honest. I understand your enthusiasm, I'd be wanting to get some use out of the speakers you paid good money for as well, but I don't know that farting around with the rear effects is going to add anything to the movie experience. On the contrary in fact, I think you might just end up mucking up the effects. Truth is there is so little 7.1 material out there (unless you have a HD DVD/Blu-ray player there's actually none) that you're probably going to find that those extra speakers get very little to do ever. My advice would be to hunt down some good 7.1 encoded material and enjoy it where you can find it - then enjoy the 5.1 stuff for what it is - 5 discretely encoded channels - designed to be enjoyed as 5 discrete channels . FWIW I installed the 6th and 7th speakers when I setup my room as well. I don't regret doing it but I wouldn't have bothered had I known the result.
ArthurDent Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 Truth is there is so little 7.1 material out there (unless you have a HD DVD/Blu-ray player there's actually none) that you're probably going to find that those extra speakers get very little to do ever. My advice would be to hunt down some good 7.1 encoded material and enjoy it where you can find it - then enjoy the 5.1 stuff for what it is - 5 discretely encoded channels - designed to be enjoyed as 5 discrete channels . Except that a good 7.1 AVR will make full use of all four rear speakers even for ProLogic encoded two channel material.
Andre281503560612 Posted May 6, 2008 Author Posted May 6, 2008 Gosh im so confused! I don't regret it though, i had all 4 speakers installed professionally, wire run through the walls & roof, wall plate, drilling holes etc, i didn't really want to do any of this, so i got it done properly and figured i might as well get it all done at the same time since i do plan on getting a blu-ray player at some stage. I will tinker with what loser recommended and take that great advice of letting my ears be the judge, doesn't hurt to try!
50mxe20 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Andre28, I think you've stumbled on the reason why a 7.1 setup is a bit of a w__k to be honest. I understand your enthusiasm, I'd be wanting to get some use out of the speakers you paid good money for as well, but I don't know that farting around with the rear effects is going to add anything to the movie experience. On the contrary in fact, I think you might just end up mucking up the effects.Truth is there is so little 7.1 material out there (unless you have a HD DVD/Blu-ray player there's actually none) that you're probably going to find that those extra speakers get very little to do ever. My advice would be to hunt down some good 7.1 encoded material and enjoy it where you can find it - then enjoy the 5.1 stuff for what it is - 5 discretely encoded channels - designed to be enjoyed as 5 discrete channels . FWIW I installed the 6th and 7th speakers when I setup my room as well. I don't regret doing it but I wouldn't have bothered had I known the result. There's a few SD DVD's with 6.1 around. The advantage of 6.1 or 7.1 in the surrounds is that it just gives a fuller "effect" to the surround. Two at the rear (7.1) is better than one at the rear (6.1) because with the latter the rear sound becomes to focused. Or so I understand. It is just aethetically more pleasing. But as ajm says, whether the high cost is cost effective may be debateable. I see with my new amp that 9.1 is possible. The mind boggles.
ajm1503559545 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Except that a good 7.1 AVR will make full use of all four rear speakers even for ProLogic encoded two channel material. Well, I've tried it and didn't think much of it. 2 channel in DPLIIx can sound excellent but sounds no better with 7 speakers than in does with 5. I found some of the 5.1 channel material tended to sound a little indistinct when any kind of effect was supposed to be moving from front to back or side to side. Hey, if you've got the speakers and an AVR that can use them, why the hell not, but I wouldn't be going out of the way to do it. If I were buying new speakers again I would plump up the budget for mains speakers and not bother with 6 and 7. As it was I had the rest and added these matching extras for very little money. Given the chance I probably would use the money to buy more movies but they're there and they're up now.
Meld Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Imo, the way 7.1 should have went is having those extra 2 speakers as overhead ceiling and on-ground floor speakers. Ok, it may be a bit troublesome installing the speaker on the ground plane. But can you imagine a horror film where there are creepy crawlies slithering on the ceiling and the floor and you can actually hear them from that direction? Spaceships flying overhead? The Tripods emerging from the ground? That would have been closer to true 3D positional audio.
50mxe20 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Imo, the way 7.1 should have went is having those extra 2 speakers as overhead ceiling and on-ground floor speakers.Ok, it may be a bit troublesome installing the speaker on the ground plane. But can you imagine a horror film where there are creepy crawlies slithering on the ceiling and the floor and you can actually hear them from that direction? Spaceships flying overhead? The Tripods emerging from the ground? That would have been closer to true 3D positional audio. Nothing stopping you doing that really. Especially with 9.1. (or 9.2 or ....)
Andre281503560612 Posted May 6, 2008 Author Posted May 6, 2008 You need to set the external surround function to Pro-logic 11X, in fact Dolby recomends you use this function even for Dolby digital EX encoded tracks ok loser call me stupid but i cant figure out how to do this. Does it have to be done during playback of each DVD or can i just set it once and for all? I can choose Dolby Digital or Prologic IIx, but cant find anywhere to set rear surrounds to prologic IIx, while the rest of the 5.1 is playing back dolby digital.
50mxe20 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 ok loser call me stupid but i cant figure out how to do this. Does it have to be done during playback of each DVD or can i just set it once and for all? I can choose Dolby Digital or Prologic IIx, but cant find anywhere to set rear surrounds to prologic IIx, while the rest of the 5.1 is playing back dolby digital.I think you'll find that setting the above (in bold) as you said will do what you want.
Andre281503560612 Posted May 6, 2008 Author Posted May 6, 2008 oh ok, i was under the impression that the setting there is inferior to Dolby Digital somehow? Something like that it is only a matrix designed for turning stereo to 5.1 or 7.1? Is that completely wrong, what was i thinking of then?
loser Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 (edited) ok loser call me stupid but i cant figure out how to do this. Does it have to be done during playback of each DVD or can i just set it once and for all? I can choose Dolby Digital or Prologic IIx, but cant find anywhere to set rear surrounds to prologic IIx, while the rest of the 5.1 is playing back dolby digital. What you need to do is press the select button on your remote control next to the sur. decode button while you are playing a 5.1 source, it doesn't matter if it is PCM DD or DTS you should then cycle through 3 options, when it shows prologic 11x you can then use the extd surround button to select between the music and movie option. I am relying on my memory here but if follow these instructions you will get there. this will then activate the dd, dts etc + prologic11 music/movie function, it works for DVDA BDpcm etc as well. Edited May 6, 2008 by loser
50mxe20 Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 oh ok, i was under the impression that the setting there is inferior to Dolby Digital somehow? Something like that it is only a matrix designed for turning stereo to 5.1 or 7.1? Is that completely wrong, what was i thinking of then?What you need to do is experiment and find out what you like and forget what all us buggers say.
ledge Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 Andre28, I think you've stumbled on the reason why a 7.1 setup is a bit of a w__k to be honest. I understand your enthusiasm, I'd be wanting to get some use out of the speakers you paid good money for as well, but I don't know that farting around with the rear effects is going to add anything to the movie experience. On the contrary in fact, I think you might just end up mucking up the effects.Truth is there is so little 7.1 material out there (unless you have a HD DVD/Blu-ray player there's actually none) that you're probably going to find that those extra speakers get very little to do ever. My advice would be to hunt down some good 7.1 encoded material and enjoy it where you can find it - then enjoy the 5.1 stuff for what it is - 5 discretely encoded channels - designed to be enjoyed as 5 discrete channels . FWIW I installed the 6th and 7th speakers when I setup my room as well. I don't regret doing it but I wouldn't have bothered had I known the result. Excellent post and i totally agree. 5.1 is all you will ever need, imo ...
Meld Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 I wonder if he should try rewiring them at the receiver end so that the four rear speakers act as a pair of dipoles instead. In that config, you'd at least ensure that all four rear speakers are being used for most of your movies.
achjimmy Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 There used to be a list of 7.1 DVD's floating around. I recieved a bunch of review DVD's the other day and one was Rush Hour 3, suprised when i threw it in the 7 channel lights lit up. Didnt watch it so i dont know how it sounded, just wanted to see if the disc was ok. Up until getting into HD i would have agreed with AJM re the rooting around but i played KK the other day and hit the ES/EX button and the reciever (Old RXV 2400 not HD capabale) went into EX surrond and the extra 2 channels sprang to life. Only watched the scene where the sheila gets taken by KK but the difference was noticable. The rustling of the bushs moved right around the back of my listening postion rather than from side to side. The rears are on the wall approx 4.5-5m apart and the effects are spaced about 1.5m apart in the middle so their is a bit of room for the sound to move. I guess if you room is only 3m wide the effect may be different.
Andre281503560612 Posted May 9, 2008 Author Posted May 9, 2008 What you need to do is press the select button on your remote control next to the sur. decode button while you are playing a 5.1 source, it doesn't matter if it is PCM DD or DTS you should then cycle through 3 options, when it shows prologic 11x you can then use the extd surround button to select between the music and movie option. I am relying on my memory here but if follow these instructions you will get there. this will then activate the dd, dts etc + prologic11 music/movie function, it works for DVDA BDpcm etc as well. ok i hate to be "that guy" but i dont have a "select button", and there is nothing of the like near the surround decode button. I have fiddled with lots of controls, but when im playing back a Dolby Digital source, i can not find a way to set prologic IIx. I got it to pop up on the OSD but could not select it. I have tried everything i can think of but simply cant get 7.1 sound unless i choose 7 channel stereo. Any more clues?
Andre281503560612 Posted May 10, 2008 Author Posted May 10, 2008 no one can help? If i hit surround decode, then display, i can find a way to cycle through to prologic IIx but cant actually select it, and definitely cant get it to light up on the AVR.
Yapab Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 My Panasonic HTIB will not let me select Pro Logic 2 when its receiving 5+ channels in Dolby Digital... says its not possible. Maybe this is the problem? Yapa
geoff888 Posted May 10, 2008 Posted May 10, 2008 Unless your rear speakers are widely space, you won't get the desired effect from 6.1/7.1 IMO.
Andre281503560612 Posted May 10, 2008 Author Posted May 10, 2008 Unless your rear speakers are widely space, you won't get the desired effect from 6.1/7.1 IMO. my surround speakers are actually a little too forward for standalone 5.1. They are in front of my listening position and probably a little too close to my front speakers. This cant be changed now, so i would really like to kick the surround backs into gear. I would really love some input on getting this done as i just cant seem to do it.
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