Hdmi-based Htpcs

[johndee]

I don't know if anyone has seen this on Tom's hardware.

www.geardigest.com/2007/05/02/we_build_4_diy_hdmi/

Dont know if I have set the link right.

The prices are US, we could probably undercut those if buying here.

JB

[techo]

Yes I recently built one, an htpc based on one of the new m/boards with an onboard HDMI slot. I used an AMD AM2 cpu so the m/board is the MSI K9AGM2-FIH. I have to say that I have built many htpcs over the years, or should I say mostly PCs with tuners in them. However I believe these new boards represent a quantum leap in the afford ability and practicality of htpcs to a wider user - especially those tiering from the restrictive nature and unreliability of propitiatory HD PVRs and those looking for a DVD recorder with HD DTV tuners. I have some pics and some words about my new htpc on my mod page. I will be updating the pics and spiel from time to time.

[djOS]

I've also built one using the MSI K9AGM2-FIH Mobo, it's main benefits over the ASUS is the true on-board HDMI integration on the Mobo backplane - the Asus wastes one of your 2 PCIe slots with its HDMI riser card.

I've put an Athlon64 X2 4200+ 65 Watt edition (using a GoldenOrb @ 500rpm I get 30 degree CPU & Case temps ) on mine with 2GB of DDRII 800Mhz ram and 2 DNTV Live PCIe Dual HDTV cards (4x Tuners). I havent had the time to get much more than Vista installed so far but might get a bit more done this weekend now that my house in Melbourne has been sold.

Btw, the HDMI PQ is outstanding @ 720p!

[madmax]

I've also built one using the MSI K9AGM2-FIH Mobo, it's main benefits over the ASUS is the true on-board HDMI integration on the Mobo backplane - the Asus wastes one of your 2 PCIe slots with its HDMI riser card.

I've put an Athlon64 X2 4200+ 65 Watt edition (using a GoldenOrb @ 500rpm I get 30 degree CPU & Case temps ) on mine with 2GB of DDRII 800Mhz ram and 2 DNTV Live PCIe Dual HDTV cards (4x Tuners). I havent had the time to get much more than Vista installed so far but might get a bit more done this weekend now that my house in Melbourne has been sold.

Btw, the HDMI PQ is outstanding @ 720p!

Sweeeeet, you couldn't build one for me before you leave Melbourne by any chance? Would pay serious $$......

[djOS]

Sweeeeet, you couldn't build one for me before you leave Melbourne by any chance? Would pay serious $$......

Sorry Mate but I have enuf trouble motivating myself to support my own MediaPC!

[madmax]

Sorry Mate but I have enuf trouble motivating myself to support my own MediaPC!

Ah crap. Worth I shot I s'pose.....

[DMK]

Are the onboard graphics chips on these mobos grunty enough to handle HD output? I got an ASUS Geforce 6150 motherboard which was supposedly good enough to output stutter-free 1080i but it was never up to the job. I ended up having to get a separate GF7600GT graphics card to get close to smooth output. Even then, the component tv-out limited the signal to 60Hz anyway, so all 50Hz shows still stuttered!

I might be building a HTPC for someone with a Pana 32LXD600A LCD, so I was thinking the best output would be HDMI. I don't really want to go down the onboard route if its not going to be up to the job though. What resolutions/refresh rates are people sending to their screens over HDMI?

[techo]

Btw, the HDMI PQ is outstanding @ 720p!

Not bad at 1080i 50MHz ether. I have a slightly lower spec. machine using the same board.

[djOS]

Not bad at 1080i 50MHz ether. I have a slightly lower spec. machine using the same board.

I run 720p cause thats my PJ's native Res and my Plasma is only "HD Ready".

[techo]

Are the onboard graphics chips on these mobos grunty enough to handle HD output?

ATM IMO the king of the video onboard HTPC m/boards are those with AMDs 690G Northbridge with ATIs SB600 Southbridge and HDMI port. With Athlons now having the chipset-level memory controller on the processor die, allows AMD to place the video core logic in the 690. This results in a very efficient path for DVI / HDMI.

Computers in the lounge efficiencies mean not only power and ultimate capability but efficiencies like power consumption, heat generation, noise, cost and ease of use. Applying those criteria, onboard systems win hands down.

I'm getting smooth accurate vision with 720p and 1080i with no sync problem using an MSI K9AGM2 HDMI board. HD is good using an old winfast 1000T, however I intend to replace that with a more modern PCIe card(s) shortly.

These boards will never make the ultimate computer, however as htpcs, make pretty good HD PVR killers and cheaper than most.

[Vatoe1503560767]

I've also built one using the MSI K9AGM2-FIH Mobo, it's main benefits over the ASUS is the true on-board HDMI integration on the Mobo backplane - the Asus wastes one of your 2 PCIe slots with its HDMI riser card.

I've put an Athlon64 X2 4200+ 65 Watt edition (using a GoldenOrb @ 500rpm I get 30 degree CPU & Case temps ) on mine with 2GB of DDRII 800Mhz ram and 2 DNTV Live PCIe Dual HDTV cards (4x Tuners). I havent had the time to get much more than Vista installed so far but might get a bit more done this weekend now that my house in Melbourne has been sold.

Btw, the HDMI PQ is outstanding @ 720p!

Hi djOS

Wow, nice specs! I am very interested in your HTPC, and I am thinking about going down this path, as I am sick of waiting for a great HD PVR. Could you please let me know what other components your have chosen, eg, case (with/without power supply), memory (type), hard drive (type/size) and whether or not the on board graphics produce stutter free 1080i/p images?

cheers,

John

[djOS]

Hi djOS

Wow, nice specs! I am very interested in your HTPC, and I am thinking about going down this path, as I am sick of waiting for a great HD PVR. Could you please let me know what other components your have chosen, eg, case (with/without power supply), memory (type), hard drive (type/size) and whether or not the on board graphics produce stutter free 1080i/p images?

cheers,

John

Hi John, Im using an Athlon64 X2 4200+ 65 Watt edition with a GoldenOrb, Geil DDRII 800Mhz Ram, 2x Western Digital HDD's, 2x DNTV Live PCIe S2 Dual HDTV cards, MSI K9AGM2-FIH Mobo and a SilverStone LC-17 HTPC Case. The Integrated Radeon x1250 (basically x700 + AVIVO features) produces excellent smooth video at any resolution and frame frate. 1080p is also supported but I dont have a display to test that on.

I haven't manged to spend anymore time on my HTPC as it is now packed away awaiting transport to adelaide in a week but once I have the time to configure t properly I'll post more detailed results on the TV/PVR side of things. (Media file play back is awesome - Vista is a nice upgrade over MCE2005).

[techo]

....I am thinking about going down this path, as I am sick of waiting for a great HD PVR. Could you please let me know what other components your have chosen, eg, case (with/without power supply), memory (type), hard drive (type/size) and whether or not the on board graphics produce stutter free 1080i/p images?

I'll chip in here as well.

MSI K9AGM2-FHI motherboard - $149

AMD Semptron 3000+ AM2 - clocks at 1.6MHz - $56

2 X 512 DDR2 PC5400-667 standard memory - $94

Lite-On DVD DL burner

Winfast 1000T

seagate 200gig sata

Win XP

I first had this setup in a Thermal Tech Mozart SX htpc case (as the first pictures on my mod page show) but it burnt out the card riser and is now being RAed. For a $380 case it turns out to be a bit crappy atleast for this board. I now have it in a much better and more suitable Ritmo mATX htpc Case with 500W PSU only cost $81.

I use this system everyday it is connected to a Bravia 42" 3LCD rear projection TV, via HDMI. It will drive the Bravia to its max 1080i through HDMI with, as I repeatedly say, no sync problems or stutter issues.

Planed upgrades include dual PCIe tuners or maybe a Quad from Digital Now, 2 gig of memory, I may update the processor to a higher spec Athlon X2 4000+ or so, version of windows vista with media center (I'm thinking of a 64 bit version but need to check what 64 bit drivers and apps are available)

My only real criticism of this board is the lack of a complete set of linux drivers.

I have some pics and abit of a spiel on my mod page, link in my sig to [just updated with new pics and spiel 14:30 today]

[hired goon]

G'day,

I'll chip in here as well.

MSI K9AGM2-FHI motherboard - $149 [...]

Interesting motherboard. I don't think it has on-board video, right? What video card are you using? (I ask because you have a 42" Sony 3LCD and I have the 50" model and whatever looks good on your display would hopefully look good on mine...) Okay, I see now that it has an integrated Radeon X1250

--Geoff

[djOS]

G'day,

Interesting motherboard. I don't think it has on-board video, right? What video card are you using? (I ask because you have a 42" Sony 3LCD and I have the 50" model and whatever looks good on your display would hopefully look good on mine...) Okay, I see now that it has an integrated Radeon X1250

--Geoff

And native HDMI on the backplane which also outputs HD audio via an Azalia spec Realtek ALC888 Chip.

[LukeF1503559517]

Question with this mobo, Just say you bought another video card, say a 8600gts and a x-fi sound card, could you somehow link these to the HDMI or you are only able to send out signals through the HDMI that are embedded on the mobo.

Something ive been trying to figure out for a while now.

[djOS]

Question with this mobo, Just say you bought another video card, say a 8600gts and a x-fi sound card, could you somehow link these to the HDMI or you are only able to send out signals through the HDMI that are embedded on the mobo.

Something ive been trying to figure out for a while now.

Nope, cant be done - I dont know why you would want to either???

[Vatoe1503560767]

Thanks djOS and Techo for your responses.

Few others questions if I may. Sorry if any are silly but I own a Toppy Masterpiece, so the questions come from that context:

1. Does the HTPC have the same capability as a true twin tuner PVR record two HD channels and play another off the hard drive at the same time? Or as you have 4 tuners record two and and watch the third?

2. Fast forward / rewind work the same as a PVR for eg? Jump keys available/programable?

3. what format are recordings made using these digital cards?

4. djOS with your configuration, did you find the box noisy? I am considering using the Origen X15e-HD-B HTPC case which has 3 x 80mm fans.

cheers,

John

[djOS]

Thanks djOS and Techo for your responses.

Few others questions if I may. Sorry if any are silly but I own a Toppy Masterpiece, so the questions come from that context:

1. Does the HTPC have the same capability as a true twin tuner PVR record two HD channels and play another off the hard drive at the same time? Or as you have 4 tuners record two and and watch the third?

Yes, You can listen to music, watch Divx's or a pre-recorded TV show all while the box is recording on any or all of its Tuners (i do recommend the dual core chips if you have more than 2 tuners).

2. Fast forward / rewind work the same as a PVR for eg? Jump keys available/programable?

Yes, FF/RR & jump forward/backward are all available on MCE and customizable - I use 5secs Back, 30secs forward.

3. what format are recordings made using these digital cards?

MCE uses the .DVRMS format which is just MPEG2 with a wrapper and tools like DVRMSToolBox can easily & quickly convert them back to pure MPEG2 Program streams.

4. djOS with your configuration, did you find the box noisy? I am considering using the Origen X15e-HD-B HTPC case which has 3 x 80mm fans.

imo no, I have a Full size HTPC case (looks like a power amp) with 2x rear 80mm >20db fans (can put in 2 more in front of the HDD cages) connected to a rear-panel fan controller running them @ minimum rpm. My CPU is the low power 65Watt edition and with a ThermalTake Golden Orb (Big HeatSink with 100mm 17db fan) and my mobo set to run it at 25% voltage. My PSU is a coolermaster extreeme silent 430watt with 140mm low rpm fan.

This results in a Case and CPU temp of around 30 degrees under normal loads and my HTPC is actually quieter than my Toshiba HD DVD player with its single 80mm fan - I can actually hear the HDD's before the fans.

cheers,

John

[Vatoe1503560767]

Great, thanks very much for your responses.

You did, however loose me with the fan controller though, is that an additional piece of hardware? I just a quick squiz at your blog/site and I notice you stated that you have to get Win Vista Media Centre to recognise the 4 tuners. Is this not automatic?

Nice case btw, similar in size (it seems) to the one I mentioned without the touch LCD, so I imagine cooling isn't going to be a huge issue.

cheers,

john

[djOS]

Great, thanks very much for your responses.

You did, however loose me with the fan controller though, is that an additional piece of hardware? I just a quick squiz at your blog/site and I notice you stated that you have to get Win Vista Media Centre to recognise the 4 tuners. Is this not automatic?

Nice case btw, similar in size (it seems) to the one I mentioned without the touch LCD, so I imagine cooling isn't going to be a huge issue.

cheers,

john

The Fan controller is just one like this which allows manual control over the fans and slots into an unused expansion slot on your case.

My MCE box does recognise them but by default will only use 2, there is a program available from the AusMediaCentre Community website that allows you to enable more than 2. I haven't even tried to get my MCE box working properly yet due to my imminent move to Adelaide.

[Vatoe1503560767]

Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions.

I can't (and won't) fault any of your choices for the hardware. You have obviously spent sometime doing the research, I particulary like the mobo and cpu choice in terms price/performance. Good luck with the move and please post some further detail regarding your HTPC when you have settled in and managed to find the time (nothing worse than moving other than death and taxes ) to continue playing with it.

cheers,

John

[LukeF1503559517]

Nope, cant be done - I dont know why you would want to either???

hardware acceleration for blu-ray, hd-dvd's downt the track? better audio than onboard audio? DX10 games? EAX 3.0? I regard the X1100 and onboard audio as low-end, nothing wrong with taking it to a higher level of performance

[djOS]

hardware acceleration for blu-ray, hd-dvd's downt the track? better audio than onboard audio? DX10 games? EAX 3.0? I regard the X1100 and onboard audio as low-end, nothing wrong with taking it to a higher level of performance

Why anyone would want to watch DVD, BD & HD DVD on a HTPC is beyond me - maybe if you want to game on your HTPC you would need an EAX v3 card and highend video card, but again the question I would ask is why would you want to?

[DMK]

Thanks for all the info guys, the MSI board looks the goods going on what has been said (and a some reviews I've checked out). On my current HTPC I haven't bothered with an aftermarket cooler as ASUS QFan manages to keep the stock fan on the X2 3800+ very quiet for 90% of its operation. Its only when I'm encoding that it gets noisy. Does the MSI have a QFan like utility to automatically slow the cpu fan speed?