I'm Sick To Death With Blu-ray

[kamma]

i need to have a bit of a **** here to get this off my chest.

i have had my ps3 for nearly 2 weeks, have 2 BR movies which are great. i was impressed with the audio quality and non-plussed by the video transfers but that irrelevent.

i went internet shopping to buy some new BR movies. mostly new releases or pre orders like deja vu, ghost rider, pirates etc and until foreign sites are updated i have no idea if the region a disc will work in my aussie ps3. i cannot even rely on looking at the studio as a guide because for example from beuna vista, pearl harbor is free but the prestige is locked.

im not taking any risks with it. the frustration is a real annoyance\

now, before anyone says it i did know full well before buying an aussie ps3 and into the format that region coding was already in place but it amazes me in this day and age where online shopping is so prevalent that we as consumers are subjected to this bullying.

thats my piece

[CAVX]

i need to have a bit of a **** here to get this off my chest.

i have had my ps3 for nearly 2 weeks, have 2 BR movies which are great. i was impressed with the audio quality and non-plussed by the video transfers but that irrelevent.

i went internet shopping to buy some new BR movies. mostly new releases or pre orders like deja vu, ghost rider, pirates etc and until foreign sites are updated i have no idea if the region a disc will work in my aussie ps3. i cannot even rely on looking at the studio as a guide because for example from beuna vista, pearl harbor is free but the prestige is locked.

im not taking any risks with it. the frustration is a real annoyance\

now, before anyone says it i did know full well before buying an aussie ps3 and into the format that region coding was already in place but it amazes me in this day and age where online shopping is so prevalent that we as consumers are subjected to this bullying.

thats my piece

The regoin coding was to stop parallel imports - but doesn't work with DVD either - sooner or later there will be a hack to unlock the regoin coding (which is letters, not numbers now?).

Mark

[T800]

Im the same, but the opposite. I can buy any USA one which is good, but if im out or see a good bargain on a new Aus release, I dont know wether tot ake the risk or wait until somoen else has tried it first.

I must admit, it is a royal pain inthe a$$

Toshiba were smart. Sony were Greedy, and region coding is pointless

Still love my PS3 though

[Hydrology]

In another thread I provided you with a link regarding regional coding on BR discs, rather which ones haveit and which ones dont. That site is updated very very regularly, but usually AFTER the disc has been released, so not helping those who wish to preorder. Of course a US or Japanese console would at least give you Region A, which makes buying from the States very easy.

[migrane]

If you import BR from Warner or Paramount you are safe.

All others check the linked site.

I only pre-order those I know about. I find that amazon now seems to differentiate by saying All Regions or Unknown for pre-releases.

[kamma]

In another thread I provided you with a link regarding regional coding on BR discs, rather which ones haveit and which ones dont. That site is updated very very regularly, but usually AFTER the disc has been released, so not helping those who wish to preorder. Of course a US or Japanese console would at least give you Region A, which makes buying from the States very easy.

yeah i got that link and i appreciate it.

still annoying not knowing in certain terms if it will work.

[momaw]

yeah i got that link and i appreciate it.

still annoying not knowing in certain terms if it will work.

The site has only a fraction of titles available listed and it can be weeks after a title is released that it get to the site, if at all. It is reliant on user supplied info so unless someone has taken the risk you won't know. While it is a good resource (I contributed the info on Disney's "The Wild" from my own import disc - JB didn't like me playing with their machine ) it is not really of much help when trying to decide to order a new release or pre-order one and let's face it, all the really good titles are still only pre-orders.

With region coding being once again forced on us, I have bought a US region machine and accepted the fact I won't be buying local anytime soon. But with local prices, availablity and that OFLC garbage, I can live with that decision (would rather not but thats the price of blu-ray ownership). I just feel sorry for anyone with a local player who can only choose from the meagre selection of average films they have released here at inflated prices after paying a massive premium for their player or play a game of russian roulet on the import market.

I'm supprised the BD is God brigade haven't flamed this thread and trolled it into the ground yet.

[betty boop]

I havent bought into blu-ray because of region coding and the pox local release/prices of blu-ray titles. and also ofcourse the pox choice in affordable fully capable players in this country which ofcourse is a separate discussion.

one of the reasons I havent bought an imported blu-ray player is for the very reasons that would have to be very carefull where I buy discs from. If I bought a player it would be a local one, and ofcourse then as per this thread still restricts pretty much to buying local. which is very frustrating and ofcourse exactly what sony and the likes want.

[-Bishop-]

Region coding on new formats are a mistake, I think it will be a big selling point for any player or media that continues to stay region free.

One of my biggest worries is HD-DVD turning around and enabling coding, as some sort of deal to get one of the big studios on board later on, it will take away what I have always thought was a big selling point.

If blu-ray were smart, they would dump it now, it won't do them any favours when HD formats start taking off and people start wanting new titles asap, and don't want to wait for local releases.

[kamma]

I'm supprised the BD is God brigade haven't flamed this thread and trolled it into the ground yet.

what would they possibly have to retort with?

[kamma]

i am buying new hd-dvds as we speak

[attilathepun]

And I was surprised the HD cheerleaders hadn't come on here to accuse anybody who wasn't stridently anti-BD of being a shill, but then realised I was too late...

[Skid_MacMarx]

One of my biggest worries is HD-DVD turning around and enabling coding, as some sort of deal to get one of the big studios on board later on, it will take away what I have always thought was a big selling point.

If blu-ray were smart, they would dump it now, it won't do them any favours when HD formats start taking off and people start wanting new titles asap, and don't want to wait for local releases.

I suppose you would have to convince Fox that there is no need for it.. obviously other studios like Paramount and Warner don't find it necessary..

How adamant are Pox regarding this issue?

Personally, I find the likes of Samsung etal going with duoplayers.. indicates that the hollywood studios are locked into their current format support for the foreseeable future (i could be wrong.. but that would be my predicition)

I suppose it is their movies

[momaw]

Actually Fox did not choose BD due to region coding. Amir said that at in the early days when Fox was looking at both formats, region coding had not even been announced for either format. They chose it due to the idea that Java based BDJ would offer more than microsofts HDi (guess they blew that choice) and they also sided with Blu-ray when Universal chose to be HD DVD exclusive - the two companies have a bitter history of rivalry which wasn't help by Fox losing the last format war when they sided with DivX. There strict use of the region coding feature should not be confused with their choice to back BD only and therefore would not have any bearing on any move to a neutral or HD DVD position.

As to Atilla's pathetic post, everyone who posted that you cosider to be the HD DVD fan brigade are actually Blu-ray owners (except Al who made his position clear) and probably more informed on the subject than you ever will be. Nice try though.

[attilathepun]

As to Atilla's pathetic post, everyone who posted that you cosider to be the HD DVD fan brigade are actually Blu-ray owners (except Al who made his position clear) and probably more informed on the subject than you ever will be. Nice try though.

Your point being? I was merely remarking on the irony of two of the most vocal HDDVD enforcers trolling a thread by reference to anticipated BD trolls - "I thought he was going to hit me so I hit him back first" type logic really.

I stand by my position that in this "war" content is king. Region coding sucks, who is going to argue for it? But if kamma does want Pirates in HD, then its BD or nothing. Same with a whole bunch of other exclusives. You will note I have never argued the technical merits of BD - for me, they offer identical quality. What swings it is the content. On that score, to my taste, BD has it covered. For that reason, I want one of two things to happen quickly:

a) cheap dual format players become available, and both formats survive; or

b ) one dies quickly, and we end up with a standard again.

I have a BD player already, so if it is going to be option b, then I would prefer HDDVD to hurry up and fade away.

[momaw]

Except Al and me, it's okay Mo you're forgiven

They just can't handle and actual owner of the format not being completely blown away in love with it and believing unflinchingly in the propaganda.

[momaw]

Your point being? I was merely remarking on the irony of two of the most vocal HDDVD enforcers trolling a thread by reference to anticipated BD trolls - "I thought he was going to hit me so I hit him back first" type logic really.

I stand by my position that in this "war" content is king. Region coding sucks, who is going to argue for it? But if kamma does want Pirates in HD, then its BD or nothing. Same with a whole bunch of other exclusives. You will note I have never argued the technical merits of BD - for me, they offer identical quality. What swings it is the content. On that score, to my taste, BD has it covered. For that reason, I want one of two things to happen quickly:

a) cheap dual format players become available, and both formats survive; or

b ) one dies quickly, and we end up with a standard again.

I have a BD player already, so if it is going to be option b, then I would prefer HDDVD to hurry up and fade away.

So who do you think these HD DVD "enforcers" are? Since I own a Blu-ray player I feel entitled to give my opinion on the topic.

At least you have given us the basis of you decision why HD DVD must die - the fact you own a BD player and the world be damned. Really balanced viewpoint you got there. Me on the other hand, I have tried both and will give my vote for the winner to be the best overall package - and that is HD DVD. It has the price and capability and as for content, well you say BD is King, but thats because you are locked to a single region and can't get your titles from anywhere in the world. I think you will find most dual format owners own more HD DVD's than Blu-rays and since the attach rate on HD DVD is 5:1 while Blu-ray is around 0.8:1 then I'd say the content argument is pretty solidly in HD DVD's favour. You are arguing content as a numbers game. It's not, it's a quality and popularity games. Actual sales show people are buying more HD DVD's than they are blu-ray discs.

Arguments based on evocative title names are likewise silly. For every exclusive you can name for one side, an equally popular one can be named on the other.

[kamma]

in my case content means nothing because i cant buy it

[Skid_MacMarx]

Actually Fox did not choose BD due to region coding. Amir said that at in the early days when Fox was looking at both formats, region coding had not even been announced for either format. They chose it due to the idea that Java based BDJ would offer more than microsofts HDi (guess they blew that choice) and they also sided with Blu-ray when Universal chose to be HD DVD exclusive - the two companies have a bitter history of rivalry which wasn't help by Fox losing the last format war when they sided with DivX. There strict use of the region coding feature should not be confused with their choice to back BD only and therefore would not have any bearing on any move to a neutral or HD DVD position.

An rinteresting insight by amir... although I didn't bring up Fox's strict region coding to discuss the reason why Fox chose BD over HD-DVD .. but to point out that they appear pretty adamant with "region coding."... News Corporation (Fox) is a very powerful and influential entity...

Would they continue with region coding if all of the other studios just dropped it..?????????

[Skid_MacMarx]

in my case content means nothing because i cant buy it

Kamma ,, I have found that Amazon lists if the BD is "all region' or not...

[attilathepun]

So who do you think these HD DVD "enforcers" are?

The ones who label anyone who expresses any sentiment which is not anti-BD a "shill" or "hydra" generally speaking.

At least you have given us the basis of you decision why HD DVD must die - the fact you own a BD player and the world be damned. Really balanced viewpoint you got there.

It was tongue in cheek, but if one is going to fail, it might as well be the one I don't own, logically speaking.

It has the price and capability and as for content, well you say BD is King, but thats because you are locked to a single region and can't get your titles from anywhere in the world. I think you will find most dual format owners own more HD DVD's than Blu-rays and since the attach rate on HD DVD is 5:1 while Blu-ray is around 0.8:1 then I'd say the content argument is pretty solidly in HD DVD's favour.

No, I say BD content is king because of its studio exclusives. For me, their exclusives are more appealing than HDDVD's. Simple as that.

You are arguing content as a numbers game. It's not, it's a quality and popularity games. Actual sales show people are buying more HD DVD's than they are blu-ray discs.

Content is a quality and popularity game, and I am betting that the quality and popularity of the BD exclusives will significantly outweigh the HDDVD ones. As for buying more HDDVD's, that goes against the various sales threads we have had in here - sales figures even you acknowleged as "official". They showed that BD had outsold HDDVD in total numbers, and had been smashing HDDVD in recent sales as the PS3 took off.

Arguments based on evocative title names are likewise silly. For every exclusive you can name for one side, an equally popular one can be named on the other.

[/momaw]

Not really. Disney alone may be enough to swing it as far as I am concerned.

[Hydrology]

The ones who label anyone who expresses any sentiment which is not anti-BD a "shill" or "hydra" generally speaking.

It was tongue in cheek, but if one is going to fail, it might as well be the one I don't own, logically speaking.

Content is a quality and popularity game, and I am betting that the quality and popularity of the BD exclusives will significantly outweigh the HDDVD ones. As for buying more HDDVD's, that goes against the various sales threads we have had in here - sales figures even you acknowleged as "official". They showed that BD had outsold HDDVD in total numbers, and had been smashing HDDVD in recent sales as the PS3 took off.

Generally those who issue pro-BR fanatism have no credence as they have no concept of the "other half" of the high definition war. At least those of us owning both formats can express our feelings more clearly. After all, if we can constantly attack a format that we own, it tells me that something is STILL not quite there with THAT format, and if we sit back and simply accept it, it will remain a lower tier product.

No, I say BD content is king because of its studio exclusives. For me, their exclusives are more appealing than HDDVD's. Simple as that.

And yes, thats why my BD collection is far bigger than my HD-DVD...NOT. My HD-DVD format exclusive movies far outweigh my BD ones (1).

[kamma]

Kamma ,, I have found that Amazon lists if the BD is "all region' or not...

i just had a look and although most seem correct there is still the problem of pre releases and on AVForums there is a lot of talk of boxes being marked incorrectly so it cant always be trusted

[momaw]

As for buying more HDDVD's, that goes against the various sales threads we have had in here - sales figures even you acknowleged as "official". They showed that BD had outsold HDDVD in total numbers, and had been smashing HDDVD in recent sales as the PS3 took off.

you know, before I posted that last entry I had an additional paragraph explaining my sales figure comment, but I deleted it as I felt it was insulting to you intelligence. Obviously I was wrong to remove it.

Attach Rates For Retards 101

An attach rate refers to the average number of discs that a consumer buys when they buy a player. Attach rates are expressed as a ratio. i.e if the attach rate ratio is 1:1 then that tells us that for every 1 player sold (figure number 2 in the ratio) then 1 disc is bought by that consumer (the first figure in the ratio). The ratio then reads 1 disc:1 player or 1:1 (note: attach rates are anuualised and represent the average number of discs purchased over a 1 year period. Now attach rates on HD DVD are 5:1, meaning for every HD DVD player sold, 5 HD DVD discs ar sold for that player in a one year period. The attach rates on BD are 0.8:1 (do I need to explain this one too?).

These attach rates have been widely published and the official sales figues back them up. So while, yes, BD has sold more discs than HD DVD, the average HD DVD owner buys more than 5 times as many discs as a Blu-ray owner. Hence even if BD had 10 million players in the market, HD DVD would still be neck and neck on software sales on only 200,000 players. Now if you factor in the lower production costs and hence more profit per HD DVD disc than per Blu-ray disc (again a topic where the information is widely available) then profit wise, those 200,000 HD DVD players have generated more profit than 10 million Blu-ray players.

These figures are remaining pretty constant and industry is starting to take them seriously. In the end the product that makes the most profit with the least effort, is what CE's and studios will go with.

What would you do? If you had to convince 1 person to buy a player to get 5 of your discs sold or 5 people to buy 5 players (which on average cost twice to three times as much as the other player) to sell 5 discs, which do you think would be easier? And this simple question ignores the ancillary savings this also brings.

Things clearer?

[kamma]

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