Camcorder For The Girlfriend

[Gutty]

Buying a digi video camera for the girlfriend, really not sure whether to go Mini DVD or HDD. Her home PC isn't anything flash, and she aint to flash at driving it. But how hard can burning a DVD from a HDD video camera be ? Plus i have a couple of decent computers and wouldn't mind making the DVDs for her. But then again, if she can just record direct to a DVD then play in a normal DVD player.... maybe that would be best ?

Any other pros and cons of either type ?

Looking at the JVC & Sony HDD cameras. And Canon, Sony or possibly Panasonic for the DVD cameras.

Under $1000. More likely around the $800 mark.

Any info or reccomendations would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Matt

Edit: Damn, there was supposed to be a poll

[betty boop]

you'd be suprised what a pain in the but taking video off a hdd or minidv dvcam onto a pc especially if wantign to burn a playable dvd out of it.

if she isnt flash at driving the pc, I'd jsut go for the mini dvd model.

[Gutty]

Hmmm, yeah she'd deffinately want everything onto standard DVD eventually. Or atleast something she can just throw in any old DVD player.

I admit i have ZERO experience with this stuff(still photography is more my thing), but would have thought it pretty easy to simply burn a DVD from the HDD..... not so ey ?

What about direct to a DVD recorder or say the little JVC dock thingy ? What about editing ?

Cheers

[Steve C]

Hmmm, yeah she'd deffinately want everything onto standard DVD eventually. Or atleast something she can just throw in any old DVD player.

I admit i have ZERO experience with this stuff(still photography is more my thing), but would have thought it pretty easy to simply burn a DVD from the HDD..... not so ey ?

What about direct to a DVD recorder or say the little JVC dock thingy ? What about editing ?

Cheers

Research, research, research...

I only have High Definition camcorders. A JVC, a Sony and a Canon. They record to tape. They download their video via firewire IEEE-1394 and a third party capture utility to the *.m2t MPEG2 video format. To write a 'standard' "Hollywood" style DVD from my High Definition video, I use Sony's DVD Architect, after creating edited DVD compliant MPEG2 video in Sony Vegas.

So; know how you are going to connect the camera to the computer.

Know how you are going to process/edit/re-encode the video in order to get the DVD you require as the end product. That means checking what sort of software comes with the camera you're thinking of buying. Not all cameras come with bundled software; and many that do, have SE or trimmed down feature applications that may not do what you require.

Learn how to maximize the quality of DVDs that you create. MPEG2 is a lossy format. This means that if you don't keep the bitrate of the video as high as possible, your resulting DVD could look like crud. Some "Auto" or "one click" DVD authoring programs don't allow maximizing of bitrates, and there's many a post from video enthusiasts whingeing about results from such programs.

If you haven't considered Hard Disk size as a factor in all of this - I'd suggest you do. Video chews through Hard drive free space like you wouldn't believe, so keep that in mind...

Good luck!

[Gutty]

Research, research, research...

I've just got though researching my first HTPC.... think my head's about to explode !

Ok, was looking the the 30Gb HDD, big enough ??

Softeware i hadn't even thought about, but it's gotta be simple or "she" will be totally lost.

Connection: figured the cam would come with some sort of cable, i have firewire connection etc on my HTPC so Probably use that ?

I understand bitrates, through recently aquiring an iPod and realising how utterly crap 128 rips sound.

Thanks for the tips. Will do some more research. Can you reccomend a good site with lots of info Steve ?

Cheers alot

Matt

[betty boop]

I've just got though researching my first HTPC.... think my head's about to explode !

Ok, was looking the the 30Gb HDD, big enough ??

Softeware i hadn't even thought about, but it's gotta be simple or "she" will be totally lost.

Connection: figured the cam would come with some sort of cable, i have firewire connection etc on my HTPC so Probably use that ?

I understand bitrates, through recently aquiring an iPod and realising how utterly crap 128 rips sound.

Thanks for the tips. Will do some more research. Can you reccomend a good site with lots of info Steve ?

Cheers alot

Matt

the thing is gutty, if you have firewire on your pc. these things are very plug and play. so basically plug the camera into the pc and even if have no software loaded. windows movie maker will fireup and can look at whats recorded onscreen, edit etc. the more heavy duty editing software the likes of ulead are actually quite complex I think to get yoru head around.

still requires some pc skills. but theres more the movie will be on the hard drive of your pc in a certain format but then will need to use software eg nero etc to actually create the dvd which can be a little messy and plus can take ooodles of time.

which is where the straight to dvd on the camera for many especially if dont want too much messing around might be the way to go.

my wifes in IT and she makes a fair few movies and she is often pulling her hair out over it all. now often she doesnt bother burning to dvd due to the hassle, jsut leaves as one big huge file on the pc hard drive. the last ~5 minute standard definition file she made was 11gb on the hard drive just to give you some idea of file size.

[Austen]

I believe that Mini-DVD quality is not as good as MiniDVD, 2.8 Gb of data / hour for Mini-DVD compared to Mini-DV which runs at 1 Gb / four minutes ...............

Also, and I don't know how true it is, but I've been told that Mini-DVD is susceptible to the disk skipping in the camera if the camera isn't held really still while filming so it is not recommended for use "on the move".....

YMMV......

Austen.

[betty boop]

I believe that Mini-DVD quality is not as good as MiniDVD, 2.8 Gb of data / hour for Mini-DVD compared to Mini-DV which runs at 1 Gb / four minutes ...............

Also, and I don't know how true it is, but I've been told that Mini-DVD is susceptible to the disk skipping in the camera if the camera isn't held really still while filming so it is not recommended for use "on the move".....

YMMV......

Austen.

I do remember a full size dvd camera. not sure if still made.

[Austen]

I do remember a full size dvd camera. not sure if still made.

We used to have a Sony BetaCam, it weighed a ton, but it took great video, it had a real video tube, none of this CCD / CMOS sensor rubbish !!!!

Austen.

[betty boop]

We used to have a Sony BetaCam, it weighed a ton, but it took great video, it had a real video tube, none of this CCD / CMOS sensor rubbish !!!!

Austen.

my grand dad had a box brownie. none of this computer crap and all !

seriously as my wife said to me. the technology is not quite there yet is it ...

that said it has been good enough with a bit of mucking around to do the odd home and other movie..

but yeah hopefully theres better to coem one day..

[mello yello]

Buying a digi video camera for the girlfriend, really not sure whether to go Mini DVD or HDD.

Can I say something totally innocuous and as I interpreted your question?

The smaller the better....so shes not aware of it...and can we see the film at eleven?

....sorry ....we now resume normal programming

[Steve C]

my grand dad had a box brownie. none of this computer crap and all !

seriously as my wife said to me. the technology is not quite there yet is it ...

that said it has been good enough with a bit of mucking around to do the odd home and other movie..

but yeah hopefully theres better to coem one day..

The video capabilities that are now within the grasp of even modestly financially capable amateurs are absolutely awesome.

Sure; you have to be prepared to put yourself through a bit of a learning curve, but it's quite plausible for a clever individual to create video by themselves that would be indistinguishable from any HD broadcast that's currently being aired.

For much less than $10,000 you can shoot/edit/release broadcast level HD video. Instead of needing a crew of highly trained and ultra specialised individuals to produce a piece from go to whoa, a single person can shoot using a 1080i HD camcorder, then digitally add effects, titles, extra audio tracks and... well, anything that they are prepared to learn how to do using their reasonably recent low-cost PC; before they choose their distribution and archiving mediums.

Kinda tough deciding which forums I'd recommend Gutty checking out, but one that does come to mind for me is DV Info Net. Just remember that some video forums are geared towards professionals, whilst others are more for pro-sumers and yet others for consumers.

Camcorder Info.com's forums are also useful.

[Gas Man]

Can I say something totally innocuous and as I interpreted your question?

The smaller the better....so shes not aware of it...and can we see the film at eleven?

....sorry ....we now resume normal programming

i once worked in a photo lab, that kind of person was the only kind of person to buy a polaroid camera

btw, for that sort of thing, a couple of my workmates have got a slap from their respective missus, did you know that you can't turn the "click" sound off on your camera phone hahahahahahaha

[Gutty]

Ok, thanks for the input guys ! Yes...even you Mello

Al, Currently using Nero, it's a piece of cake. Have some Ulead software(Movie Factory and Video Studio), guess i'll install and have a play. See what i'm actually up against. Though how i'm going to see if the GF can get her head around it without letting on she's getting the cam should be fun...

Was kind of leaning toward teh HDD but now i'm not so sure....

Austen, have been told MiniDV is going to give me better quality, and longer recording times compared to Mini DVD, but in teh 2 shops i've so far checked prices in, the only MiniDV cameras they had were 1080i....well out of my price bracket, and still means the GF has to somehow get it onto PC etc then to DVD. Deffinately will look into it a bit more though.

Mello, i like the way you think !

Steve, i'll check out those sites. Thanks for the info !

If anyone has particular camera models they reckon i should check out... feel free.

Cheers

Matt

[Steve C]

Austen, have been told MiniDV is going to give me better quality, and longer recording times compared to Mini DVD, but in teh 2 shops i've so far checked prices in, the only MiniDV cameras they had were 1080i....well out of my price bracket, and still means the GF has to somehow get it onto PC etc then to DVD. Deffinately will look into it a bit more though.

If anyone has particular camera models they reckon i should check out... feel free.

Cheers

Matt

MiniDV is a tape format. It actually refers to the small size of the tape cassette, and the accompanying tape drive hardware more than anything else.

DV (Digital Video) can be recorded to a number of mediums in much the same way that HDV (High Definition Video) can, because the maximum bitrates are essentially the same - namely 25Mbit. MiniDV tapes have a maximum bitrate capacity of 25Mbit, thus allowing HDV as well as SD DV camcorders to use MiniDV tapes and drive units.

DV can be 4:3 or 16:9, although there's not a lot of cheap native 16:9 DV cameras out there. DV is essentially SD or Standard Definition video with 720x576 PAL pixel dimensions regardless of whether it's 4:3 or 16:9.

Hope that clarifies things a bit...

I'm surprised the shops you've gone to reckon they only have HDV MiniDV camcorders. They must be trying to flog a HDV unit to you over their SD DV camcorders... From my perspective, getting a HDV camera is more flexible. I have the 16:9 native, and the extra pixels when I want them - as well as being able to make DVDs in exactly the same way that I would with a SD DV camcorder.

Keep on getting familiar with what the hardware/software can do, and don't let some juvenile snot sales person try and railroad you via untruths and vacuous misrepresentations into a purchase that may not be the one you want to make! Enjoy...

[Gutty]

Cheers for that Steve.

Yeah, I was aware that MiniDV is tape. And although they deffinately did try to sell me a $2.5K 1080i camera, that wasn't the whole point about MiniDV. I checked and they basicly just didn't have any lower budget MiniDV cameras on the shelves. Only the very lowest model Sony for like $500 was tape format. All others seemed to be DVD or HDD. I just assumed it's a format that's on it way out...

If the camera was for me, i'd be saving up for a 1080i model. No 2 ways about it. But for the GFs birthday present, well, lets just say we haven't been seeing each other near long enough. I think i'm overdoing it with a budget of $800 as it is. I dare say she's gonna sh#t when she opens it. She thinks she's getting a $200 mountain bike.

Thanks again

Matt

[Mining Man]

... I dare say she's gonna sh#t when she opens it. She thinks she's getting a $200 mountain bike.

~

Get her a bowling ball instead. You'll get the same reaction, and get to keep most of your $800...

[Gutty]

Get her a bowling ball instead. You'll get the same reaction, and get to keep most of your $800...

Funny you mention that.... i used to play comp for e bit of midweek fun(sponsored by the local pub even) and she has my ball at her house....cacked when i showed up with it to take her kids bowling one night...

[Steve C]

I dare say she's gonna sh#t when she opens it. She thinks she's getting a $200 mountain bike.

I guess the difference in the size of the gift may be somewhat of a give away...

A pack of adult diapers may also be a handy 'extra' gift if that's the response you're expecting.

BTW; Let's hope she doesn't 'tune into' the DTV Forum and read this thread...

[Hydrology]

I read the subject heading of this thread thinking it was choosing a camera to film your girlfriend....

Wheres the footage?

[Gutty]

I read the subject heading of this thread thinking it was choosing a camera to film your girlfriend....

Maybe it is.... :ph34r:

[Mining Man]

Yeah, screw, um I mean, forget the bowling ball. Get the camera!!

[Guest Blackberry]

If it's not too late, maybe I can help a little.

Just bought myself a Camcorder with HDD.

For me it was a no-brainer:

- No buying tapes

- No buying blank DVDs

- No swapping media

- No running out of storage

There is limited editing within the camera, but that's too cumbersome fo me, just copy to the PC or DVD recorder and edit there. The PC gives much more flexibility, but if minimal editing is required the DVD Recorder would be suitable. If you go fo MiniDV you still have to transfer to PC (or DVD recorder) if you go fo MiniDVD, you more than likely want to edit, so again transfer is required.

I looked at Sony and JVC. I only looked at the most recent models, because technology is changing so fast, there are bound to have been improvements. I got the JVC GZ-MG135AA. It's got a 40Gb HDD, but I did not need that much capacity. I was after the "Bright" Lens (f1.2) and the high res CCD. I believe either Sony or JVC will fit your requirements and you can get it for under $800, by negotiation. I researched the online cost (not ebay), and when I made my decision I went to one of the Bulk stores and said I wanted their best deal, knowing what they could do. Expect to approach 15-20% off RRP.

Only had the camera 2 days and it's fantastic.

Cautions:

- They tend to come with a low capacity battery. (Recording time is usually only a small percentage of the turned on time, especially when first learning). Higher capacity batteries are available as options, but tend to be expensive. More than likely a lower cost Generic is available.

- The bundled Ssoftware crashed first time I tried to make a DVD, but I have not yet tried again. I will probably just use my existing software. The files that transfer to PC are MPEG2 with a "MOD" extension. Media Player Classic plays them and some other software I have loads them. The JVC has AV, S-Video, USB and Firewire for transfer. The Sony, I looked at, did not have Firewire.

I will let you know if I get the software running properly. They do offer a help line if needed, but not sure I will bother.

Also, if you are still deciding I should probably say a bit on optical zoom. Let me know.

[Gutty]

If it's not too late, maybe I can help a little.

Not too late at all. Probably going to buy this weekend.

Had kind of narrowed my choice down to the JVC GZ-MG135 or the Sony DCRSR42.

Can you tell me a bit more about the model you bought ? I thought the MG135 had a 30Gb HDD and didn't have the "bright - f1.2" lens like the MG57(old model) or MG275.

Cheers for info Blackberry,

Much appreciated

Matt

[Guest Blackberry]

Not too late at all. Probably going to buy this weekend.

Had kind of narrowed my choice down to the JVC GZ-MG135 or the Sony DCRSR42.

Can you tell me a bit more about the model you bought ? I thought the MG135 had a 30Gb HDD and didn't have the "bright - f1.2" lens like the MG57(old model) or MG275.

Cheers for info Blackberry,

Much appreciated

Matt

Gutty

OOPs sorry, it is the MG275 I got. The manual covers 3 models and I looked at the wrong one.

The JVC Australia site has a good means of comparing their latest models. ie 575, 275, 145 and 135. The only one with f1.2 lens is 275. Older models such as 77 have F1.2. However, suggest you search for these on CNET.com.au and read their comments. CNEt have not reviewed the new models yet.

I also looked at the Sony SR42, and my final choice was between the JVC 275 and the Sony SR62, which are both up market from the 42. I was mainly looking for improved quality, due to larger CCD and the faster lens.