Sony 70" (sxrd) Being Installed And Need Cheap But Featured Dvd Recorder - Totally Confused

[ozgal]

Hi,

I've been trying to digest everything about DVD Recorders but I've run out of time as I need to purchase a DVD Recorder now as our new 70" (sxrd) Sony KS70R200 will be installed next Tuesday(17.4.2007). PLEASE NOTE: Dr Smith kindly pointed out in a later post that I neglected to mention whether I had the stand alone HD-STB that usually comes with the 70" model, along with the spare lamp. Yes, I do have the HD-STB and the extra lamp as part of my purchase. Sorry that I had not included this information at the time Peter Gillespie replied with his first post. I've added in here just in case others start reading at this point, to avoid any confusion for them.

We've spent a bit more than we had budgeted due to probs with the 60" as noted on the sxrd owner thread and also had to purchase a lowline unit and subwoofer for our surround system.

We have a home entertainment set up guy coming to put it all together.

Our current VCR is also on the blink and sons have about 600 videos they'd like to watch on the new 70 inch screen. (We've seen a few around for $100 so think it's worthwhile to add this into the mix on top of the $400.00 for the DVD Recorder).

I'm hoping some of you might be able to assess which DVD Recorder would be best while keeping in mind I only have a budget of around $400.00 left. (We probably will have to make compromises but I'd like to at least make the right compromises).

Here's what we have:

1.Foxtel Digital (I'm pretty sure we currently have no scart connections and the T.V. set up guy mentioned that if we do use scart we will not be able to record Foxtel programs onto the DVD Recorder - I'm pretty brain boggled at the moment and forget why). I'm not all that happy though to use anything less than scart (or RGB) because we mainly watch Foxtel which is only SD quality and on the big screen Poor PQ would be a real bummer.

2. Phillips 5.1 surround sound system (two side and two rear speakers and the smaller centre speaker) plus the T.V. set up guy is proving a Wintel 280W subwoofer ($380 - he says this is wholesale and that we are saving $175 more on RRP - so am hopng this is a good deal).

3. Currently have a few DVD players around the place (all play divx, avi's etc - Conia, Zensonic - early model, DMX from Strathfield Auto, - all very basic models). Want to purchase best DVD Recorder for our $400 to replace this - like it to have progressive scan, be region free, play divx, avi, MP3, CD-R. USB port would be nice but not imperative. 160GB HDD okay - so long as we can burn onto DVDs. Would like built in Digital tuner but know this is where the expense probably comes in. Not sure if stand alone digital stb with cheap DVD Recorder might be a solution???? Also have NTSC video I want to transfer onto DVD for my mum who's video player does not play NTSC. Can only get the movie on VHS NTSC. I have a macrovision box from Jaycar that allows me to override macrovision so hope there is a way to use this when needed (record Box Office movies Foxtel so not restricted to 24hr viewing) - it uses composite leads

Husband and sons are avid footy fans and we will definitely want to use the DVD Recorder to record the footy matches (and if possible the Saturday night footy shows that are broadcast in HD quality).

4. Free to air channels - T.V. guy is also setting these up to run from antenna (pretty sure I upgraded antenna with amplifier or booster before we had Foxtel digital as reception in our area was always pathetic - but with the digital signal hope this will be okay).

5. As mentioned above our VCR is on the blink- while TV guy is here to set everything up (I'm good with computers but when it comes to hands-on cables and connections I get very confused) so want T.V. guy to make sure every component is installed, tuned and working at highest possible settings. Husband is not cluey elecrtronically.

6. Sons have XBox360 and new PS3 - they will play games on the 70 incher and Blue Ray discs - but will want to take unit into their room quite often. So we cannot rely on either of these as a "leave it in place" dvd player.

7. HDD on the DVD recorder does not need to be huge as long as we can burn onto DVDs if needed.

I know this is a long post but as we have the guy coming on Tuesday I'd like to be able to get the DVD Recorder this weekend - plus I want to be sure he is hooking up Foxtel so that we can get the very best PQ - considering the TV is a 70 incher and poor PQ will really stand out. While I think I have a fair idea of what we need because I do not have the extensive knowledge of each component (and what outputs etc they have and how they all piece together I really do need help from those of you who do so I can make an informed decision). Also T.V. set up guy is taking into mind our budget versus obtaining top quality (i.e. the scart leads) whereas I think this might be something we cannot really scrimp on. So I'd like to know the optoins and then make the decision.

I hope I've explained things properly and would really appreciate help on this - also if I have to get scart cables and such I'd need to know where to get them (do Jaycar sell these?).

I'm in Melbourne and am not far from the CBD (Jaycar, Dick Smith, JB, Harvey Norman) so hope I can race out and get what I need.

Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions and I do apologise for the amount of questions here - I know it's a pretty big ask.

Cheers,

ozgal

[pgdownload]

Lots of info there OzGal,

Congrats on the purchase. You're right that a 70" TV is going to show up some deficiencies in PQ (From Foxtel and esp from VCR tapes). You go into the equipment you have but not really how you want to use some of it. I'll throw some thoughts out and see if any strike a chord:

1) Found reference to the built in HD tuner (was surprised I couldn't find it before). I can't find any mention of AV outputs though (even poor composite ones). This would suggest that you won't be able to record any of the digital image from the inbuilt digital tuner, not even SD (many TVs with an inbuilt tuner don't have the ability to on send the image to an external device). Even if they do its usually only on low level composite cables (about VCR quality). Note that if you can record this way it basically means you can't watch anything else (eg Foxtel) while recording - you can only record what is on the screen at the current moment.

An external STB can send the digital image to a DVDR but its a bit fiddly as you have to set timers on the STB (to change the channel) and on the DVDR (to record the signal) etc. Doable though.

2) You mention getting a cheap STB. You can get a SD one for about $100, and this will give you about DVD quality images on your screen. As DVDRs can only really record to SD quality its all you really need. I would recommend getting a cheap SD PVR for recording your FTA TV - although judging buy your TV habits paying a bit extra and getting a Topfield 5000 or Mediastar or Arion SD PVR ($500) would seem to be a much better match. This frees up getting a seperate cheap DVDR for recording the Foxtel. Read about PVRs (and how they're great for people wanting to timeshift viewing in large families here:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=36191

3) A DVDR with a built in tuner (SD only I'm afraid) will cost $750 or so. Probably the best at the moment is the Panasonic EX75 - read about them all in this thread:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=41758

4) The TV should be awesome for use with the consoles (esp watching Bluray Movies) although it sounds like much of the time the kids will use other TVs elsewhere in the house.

5) What percentage of your viewing is via Foxtel? ie not FTA TV? Do you have the IQ?

6) You seem to record a lot of TV (ie 400 VCR tapes?) If you intend to record lots of FTA TV then a digital PVR might be better suited to your needs (although not your budget at the moment (ranging $250 (SD) to $500 (Good SD) to $900 (HD)) - a PVR doubles as a STB.

8) Do you intend to try transpose all the VCR TAPES onto DVDs? This will involve a very large amount of effort and the PQ will be very average. I would highly recommend dropping into a store and buying a cheap VCR player and use that with your existing tapes as desired. Heck, I've got a pretty top notch one (VCR) in the attic, if you want to pay for postage and throw in $50 I'll ship it to you (from Melbourne)

9) Dick Smith have a 14 day no questions asked money back garantee. If you wanted to buy a bunch of cables from them then the unused ones could be returned after a bit.

10) Would slow down on the DVDR purchase. You TV will have a bunch of component inputs and has HDMI inputs. Just plug your new DVDR into one of these and you'll have fine PQ. Note that cables cost a fair bit in themselves. Depending on what you need you can spend $400 just on those. HDMI cables cost $60 upwards. FWIW you don't need to spend big on cables $30-$80 for any given cable should be absolutely plenty. As a general rule the cable guy should connect up with HDMI or Component and you'll have great PQ - avoid composite (simple red,whit, yellow cables) where at all possible.

11) Note you can't really record HD to a DVDR - it works but you'll basically get the same PQ as recording from SD - as the image is compressed and converted to analogue to go onto the DVDR.

12) Reading some of your other posts you are concerned about lamp life. Not sure, but the Sony site mentions this TV comes with a spare bonus one.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[ozgal]

Hi there Peter,

Congrats on the purchase. You're right that a 70" TV is going to show up some deficiencies in PQ (From Foxtel and esp from VCR tapes). You go into the equipment you have but not really how you want to use some of it. I'll throw some thoughts out and see if any strike a chord:

Thanks so much. This was a family purchase - husband, myself and sons (21 + 24) are contributing a quarter each of the cost.

1) Found reference to the built in HD tuner (was surprised I couldn't find it before). I can't find any mention of AV outputs though (even poor composite ones). This would suggest that you won't be able to record any of the digital image from the inbuilt digital tuner, not even SD (many TVs with an inbuilt tuner don't have the ability to on send the image to an external device).

I take it you mean the 70" does not have the ability to on send the image to a DVDR or VCR.

Even if they do its usually only on low level composite cables (about VCR quality). Note that if you can record this way it basically means you can't watch anything else (eg Foxtel) while recording - you can only record what is on the screen at the current moment.

I'm not sure what you mean by lack of outputs (as they were not listed in specs I probably did not know to look for any). I took much more notice of what the TV contained in terms of Terminals - which all seem to focus on input rather than output. At that time (and still now in fact) I was not sure how all the bits and pits fit together and what things I might need that are not there. Bit of a limit if only what is being watched on screen can be seen if recording something! I think I've read about twin tuners that allow you to overcome this (PVRs I think - as I did read the FAQs about DVDR and PVR).

Here are the specs from www.techbuy.com.au on Sony KS70R200 - 70" LCD BRAVIA SXRD Full HD (1920 x 1080)

Terminals:

HDMI Input: x 2

Component In: x 3

S-Video In: x 3

Composite In: x 3

Headphone Out: x 1

HD15/PC Audio Input: x 1

**** I thought the above meant I could attach VCR and DVD Recorder via component\S-Video\Composite\ and HDMI for equipment that is HDMI compatible (PS3/HD DVD Recorders/HD STB attached to a DVD Recorder. I'm still pretty confused about what I'm actually not able to do and hope you can break this down into very simple talk (like you would explain to a child often helps LOL!)******

An external STB can send the digital image to a DVDR but its a bit fiddly as you have to set timers on the STB (to change the channel) and on the DVDR (to record the signal) etc. Doable though.

Okay, so this would add functionality to the Sony's inability to on send the image to an external device, and could do the job like an all in one DVDR with built in HD tuner could do, but would be fiddly as settings have to go through two units rather than one integrated unit.

2) You mention getting a cheap STB. You can get a SD one for about $100, and this will give you about DVD quality images on your screen. As DVDRs can only really record to SD quality its all you really need.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Hence, my confusion as to why there are DVDRs with built in HD tuners. Why are they needed if DVDR's can only record SD?

I would recommend getting a cheap SD PVR for recording your FTA TV - although judging buy your TV habits paying a bit extra and getting a Topfield 5000 or Mediastar or Arion SD PVR ($500) would seem to be a much better match. This frees up getting a seperate cheap DVDR for recording the Foxtel. Read about PVRs (and how they're great for people wanting to timeshift viewing in large families here:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=36191

3) A DVDR with a built in tuner (SD only I'm afraid) will cost $750 or so. Probably the best at the moment is the Panasonic EX75 - read about them all in this thread:

I was given a price yesterday for a Panasonic DMREX75 160GB HD Recorder(digital tuner built in, which I thought was HD not SD) for $712, which I was told was pretty much cost price. That's about double what I can spend though. I thought that the SD models would be about half this price. Maybe I've been misinformed or have not understood this correctly???

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=41758

4) The TV should be awesome for use with the consoles (esp watching Bluray Movies) although it sounds like much of the time the kids will use other TVs elsewhere in the house.

My sons cannot wait! Husband and I are looking forward to a cinema experience. Sons (BTW I do call them kids but they are 21 and 24 - big kids!) will play games mostly in their room because they know they cannot hog the "new TV" 24/7, which they certainly would if they could get away with it!

5) What percentage of your viewing is via Foxtel? ie not FTA TV? Do you have the IQ?

99% of our viewing currently is Foxtel. We also watch DVDs and at currently no FTA at all because the picture is crappy as we have not had the roof antenna hooked up for the incoming digital signal. With Foxtel showing lots of footy replays the guys mainly watch those, but we use a VCR to record games when they cannot stay home to watch - these get watched a bit and they like to watch them outside footy season. We do not have IQ - $$$ and the fact you do not own the thing. We have two set top boxes ($20 extra per month). One is in the bedroom for me cos the guys watch sport lots, especially footy from Feb to Sept each year. Good on them, but I'm not a huge sports fan, so need my own little piece of Nirvana. Once the 70 is installed in lounge I will be getting 31"Sony Widescreen WEGA in bedroom. That's my consolation prize. Lucky me!

6) You seem to record a lot of TV (ie 400 VCR tapes?) If you intend to record lots of FTA TV then a digital PVR might be better suited to your needs (although not your budget at the moment (ranging $250 (SD) to $500 (Good SD) to $900 (HD)) - a PVR doubles as a STB.

I think you might have misunderstood this bit. Son is a movie collector and has about 600 original VHS movies - not programs we've recorded. He went on a spending spree when all the video shops were selling them cheap when DVDs took over.

8) Do you intend to try transpose all the VCR TAPES onto DVDs? This will involve a very large amount of effort and the PQ will be very average. I would highly recommend dropping into a store and buying a cheap VCR player and use that with your existing tapes as desired. Heck, I've got a pretty top notch one (VCR) in the attic, if you want to pay for postage and throw in $50 I'll ship it to you (from Melbourne)

No. Sons will watch Videos on big T.V. and suffer with PQ, or watch them in their room. Husband does have old footy episodes on VHS that he might want to copy onto DVD-R - plus we will want to record shows onto DVD-R (I also have a macrovision box from Jaycar so hope to put this in between DVDR and Foxtel so Box Office downloaded movies can be copied onto DVD to extend 24hr viewing. I think we'd prefer using a DVDR from this point on but would like to have the flexibility of having a VCR in the mix and use that for older stuff already taped (and just transposing a few here and there that we really want on DVD). Thanks for the offer of the VCR - we are in Melbourne too - so not far. Wonder if it's better though to just buy a new one as they are only around $100 at the moment.

9) Dick Smith have a 14 day no questions asked money back garantee. If you wanted to buy a bunch of cables from them then the unused ones could be returned after a bit.

True, but their prices are always much more than Jaycar's. I just need to know which equipment I need to buy, then which are the best cables to get best picture that will make best use of our expensive new TV as I do not think we have any scart cables set up at the present time.

10) Would slow down on the DVDR purchase. You TV will have a bunch of component inputs and has HDMI inputs. Just plug your new DVDR into one of these and you'll have fine PQ. Note that cables cost a fair bit in themselves. Depending on what you need you can spend $400 just on those. HDMI cables cost $60 upwards. FWIW you don't need to spend big on cables $30-$80 for any given cable should be absolutely plenty. As a general rule the cable guy should connect up with HDMI or Component and you'll have great PQ - avoid composite (simple red,whit, yellow cables) where at all possible.

I agree, but when I talked to T.V. set up guy about recording from Foxtel, I'm sure he was going to set it up with composite because he said if SCART is used, you cannot record off those. This really confused me and still does. That's the bit I'm worried about. Unless I'm not understanding what he was telling me. He is providing our HDMI cables - we only need two so far. One for the PS3 when it is plugged into the 70" and one for DVDR if it is has inbuilt HD tuner. I also think when Foxtel set up our current TV (The Sony WEGA which has inbuilt SD tuner) they only used cheap cables - composite I think but I'm not sure as the WEGA is big and heavy and only just fits inside our cabinet - so I have not been able to check behind it.

11) Note you can't really record HD to a DVDR - it works but you'll basically get the same PQ as recording from SD - as the image is compressed and converted to analogue to go onto the DVDR.

Yes, I know, but for whatever reason, I think built in HD tuner is preferable (what I've been told) but not sure and also it's expensive.

12) Reading some of your other posts you are concerned about lamp life. Not sure, but the Sony site mentions this TV comes with a spare bonus one.

Spot on. The 60" model's lamp has life of 8000 hours. But the 60"model has problems and ended up being a not so good choice. The 70" model's lamp life is 4,000 hours. I know we get a free lamp with purchase but after that you still only get half the life of the 60" model lamp. We watch a whole lotta TV so I was concerned, but another poster said at least they can be ordered online from USA for around US$250 (cost here in Oz is around AU$750) so that helped on that issue.

Peter, you are a champion for taking the time to reply to my 50 million questions. I really appreciate your help. Hopefully I've addressed some of the issues you raised. Hope I've made sense and you can share your thoughts.

Cheers and thanks again.

ozgal

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[drsmith]

ozgal,

Before purchasing a STB you should check to see if your 70" SXRD purchase includes the Sony HD-STB. By all accounts it should and you will need a HD-STB (or PVR) as the 70" does not have a high definition digital tuner.

If the Sony HD-STB is not included, it may prove worthwhile arguing the point with the shop you purchased the 70" SXRD from. Failing that, it can now be purchased for around $200 and is an excellent HD tuner for the 70" SXRD.

As for purchasing other components in general, it my be worth waiting until the SXRD is delivered and you are more familiar with it before jumping in.

[pgdownload]

1) Found reference to the built in HD tuner (was surprised I couldn't find it before).

Turns out I was right first time. I'm amazed DrSmith that such a high level piece of equipment doesn't have a tuner. Anyway OzGal this is both good and bad news.

Bad because you basically need to get a HD STB or PVR - as DrS says the supplier should have highlighted this an they usually throw the STB in as a 'sweetner'. Possibly not much you can do about it now but possibly a polite (althoughslightly peeved) phone call to them should see them offer it free or cheaply.

Good because as a seperate box you can set it up for recording.

I take it you mean the 70" does not have the ability to on send the image to a DVDR or VCR.

No longer applicable as the unit does not have a digital tuner.

I think I've read about twin tuners that allow you to overcome this (PVRs I think - as I did read the FAQs about DVDR and PVR).

Have a read of this PVR ONLY FAQ - its a bit more focused on digital TV and PVRs in particular. Not necessarily recommending a PVR but its a fairly good read. The 'only record what's on screen' limitation only applies when your using an inbuilt digital tuner - no longer relevant to you.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Hence, my confusion as to why there are DVDRs with built in HD tuners. Why are they needed if DVDR's can only record SD?

There are no DVDRs with HD tuners (all are SD). You may have been confused as some SD DVD Players upscale their output to 'HD' - its not as good as proper HD but its still pretty damn good. The manufacturer's went to quite a lot of trouble to create this 'confusion' with their marketting.

I was given a price yesterday for a Panasonic DMREX75 160GB HD Recorder(digital tuner built in, which I thought was HD not SD) for $712, which I was told was pretty much cost price. That's about double what I can spend though. I thought that the SD models would be about half this price.

These 'hybrid' devices are still pretty new on the market. There main attraction is that they can record Foxtel via on set of inputs and digital FTA TV via the inbuilt SD tuner. Any similar device will be about the same. The alternative is to buy two seperate boxes (one an analogue DVDR and the other a digital PVR) you end up paying the same, if not more)

I think you might have misunderstood this bit. Son is a movie collector and has about 600 original VHS movies - not programs we've recorded. He went on a spending spree when all the video shops were selling them cheap when DVDs took over.

So you will need a new VCR (You implied you we're fixing the one you have. Yep grabbing a $100 one from the store sounds just as easy. Maybe get your son to by it as he's got the videos

I agree, but when I talked to T.V. set up guy about recording from Foxtel, I'm sure he was going to set it up with composite because he said if SCART is used, you cannot record off those. This really confused me and still does. That's the bit I'm worried about.

An awful lot of people record Foxtel onto analogue DVDRs. So its very doable. You might just have to make some additional posts or search around a bit. I know Foxtel has composite out (and as Foxtel PQ isn't top notch it probably doesn't suffer very much over composite). But I believe there's another option (via scart?) and people do use that - don't know for sure though - possibly the macrovision device is needed?

Yes, I know, but for whatever reason, I think built in HD tuner is preferable (what I've been told) but not sure and also it's expensive.

We'll that's the rub HD is usually better than SD, but in this instance the improvement might be 5% and the cost might be 200%.

Ok, lets see if we can't find some options for you. I'll list

1) Want to watch HD FTA TV (Footy / Movies)

2) Want to record Foxtel and FTA TV (Footy on both) - to a SD quality.

3) Want a DVDR

Ok, I would recommend getting something like the EX75 SD hybrid DVDR. This can record Foxtel and it can use its own SD tuner to record something on FTA TV. This means you can basically set it up to be a recording device only. On top of this you really should get a HD STB as it would be such a shame to have such a beautiful TV and not watch the odd movie or Footy game in brilliant HD (assuming footy is going HD this season?). Grab a VCR to replace the old one and basically use it as a player only.

This is probably the most flexible and easy to use setup for what you want to do. Some people try to cram too much into hooking everything together, but I find its often better to have a generally defined function for each box.

The only other alternative might be to get a DVDR for hooking up to Foxtel and get a HD PVR (recommend the LG) for recording and viewing HD FTA TV. You can transfer the odd show from the PVR to the DVDR at your leisure.

To be honest given you family set up and amount of TV watching, I would recommend the last option as providing the best use of your setup, the best PQ, the best ease of use juggling boxes and the best flexibilty. However its going to cost you. Option one is also very effective but it puts a lot of emphasis on the Hybrid DVDR as the 'box in the middle of it all'. You'll also need to set timers on Foxtel (to change the channel) and timers on the DVDR (to start the recording) as they are seperate boxes. (Although you need to do this in almost any setup when trying to record Foxtel without the IQ)

For Option 1

HD STB (Free? or $200-$300)

EX75 or similar ($700)

********* Total $900

For Option 2

HD PVR (recommend the LG) ($750)

Standard analogue DVDR with Harddrive (lots more options for these) ($450)

********* Total $1200

To be honest, you've bought a lovely TV but you probably could have bought a slightly lower speced model and had almost no difference in PQ but saved a grand or so. That said, its going to look amazing connected to a HD box, Bluray, Gaming and even standard DVDs, you'll have that long after the price is a distant memory - What I'm hoping to provide here are some options that maximise the benefits of such a TV - without spending huge amounts on additional equipment.

Hope it provides some ideas.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[ozgal]

ozgal,

Before purchasing a STB you should check to see if your 70" SXRD purchase includes the Sony HD-STB. By all accounts it should and you will need a HD-STB (or PVR) as the 70" does not have a high definition digital tuner.

Hi Dr Smith,

Yes my 70" does include both the HD STB and the spare lamp. So all good on that point. I followed up on everything I learned here at the time of purchase and made sure both were included. I even had the salesperson ring their supplier and check this was the case and would be included in the price. BTW the price I got with everything included was pretty good at $5,200).

I'm a bit confused by your second comment: "....as the 70" does not have a high definition digital tuner." Did you actually mean to say it does not have a built in HD-STB? (But, as mentioned, often comes packaged with a stand alone HD-STB as part of the package?)

If the Sony HD-STB is not included, it may prove worthwhile arguing the point with the shop you purchased the 70" SXRD from. Failing that, it can now be purchased for under $200 and is an excellent HD tuner for the 70" SXRD.

Okay, this is a moot point, as it does include the STB.

As for purchasing other components in general, it my be worth waiting until the SXRD is delivered and you are more familiar with it before jumping in.

On your last point, I agree about perhaps waiting, but as I am paying for a T.V. guy to set things up professionally, I want to get everything intsalled at the same time - hence the hurry. Plus our VCR is on the blink so we might as well get our DVDR now (and throw a cheapie $100 VCR into the mix only for playing back video movies we already own).

Thanks for pointing out these items and the need for clarifying them.

As always, I appreciate your suggestions and comments

Cheers,

Ozgal.

[ozgal]

Hi again Peter,

Sorry I did not post reply to Dr Smith before you posted again, because if I had you would know I do have the HD-STB - included with the Sony 70" together with the exra lamp.

I believe some people were unlucky not to receive the HD-STB but as I'd been checking here before purchsaing I made sure it was included (and for a great price, which was an added bonus).

One thing you have cleared up for me is the question of the copying issue when a HD tuner is internal. At least I know that will not be a problem as I have the add-on/stand-alone HD-STB that comes with the Sony 70" model. Yay...a consolation for having to purchase the 70" as the 60" model had problems.

Thanks again for your reply. I'll go through it now and see if I can understand things. Please let me know if what I've said above sounds right and that I have understood Dr Smith's comments correctly.

Cheers,

ozgal

[pgdownload]

Ahh,

So you have a seperate HD STB. Good Stuff. Yes DrS was saying the unit has not got an inbuilt tuner. We'll based on this I'd be thinking of shooting for option 1 - get the EX75 (or similar). It will record all your FTA TV with out hassle just set a timer. Foxtel might involve a bit of mucking around setting timers on both boxes, but you can also manually change the channel on Foxtel and manually hit REC on the DVDR.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Not you might want to get a simple passive splitter (looks like a 'T' for $5) for the aerial (maybe at the plug). So you can send the aerial cable into the HD STB and the DVDR so both get an equal and strong signal.

Get the cable guy to write down what connection he makes between each box (eg wall to DVDR aerial, DVDR to TV component, etc.) post it later on and we can probably check he's done the best

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[pgdownload]

Thanks again for your reply. I'll go through it now and see if I can understand things. Please let me know if what I've said above sounds right and that I have understood Dr Smith's comments correctly.

Sounds like you're getting a good handle on things. Note you might want to edit your post above and cut out my 'quote' - its not good form to have the same text take up pages (although interleaving like you did in the first one is fine )

Peter Gillespie

[drsmith]

Yes my 70" does include both the HD STB and the spare lamp. So all good on that point. I followed up on everything I learned here at the time of purchase and made sure both were included. I even had the salesperson ring their supplier and check this was the case and would be included in the price. BTW the price I got with everything included was pretty good at $5,200).

Best price so far I think.

I'm amazed DrSmith that such a high level piece of equipment doesn't have a tuner.

So am I, but given the strife some 60" SXRD owners have had with the internal tuner this turns out to be a good thing.

What amazes me even more is that Sony did not include the HD-STB with all 70" SXRD sales from the start.

[ozgal]

Ahh,

So you have a seperate HD STB. Good Stuff. Yes DrS was saying the unit has not got an inbuilt tuner. We'll based on this I'd be thinking of shooting for option 1 - get the EX75 (or similar). It will record all your FTA TV with out hassle just set a timer. Foxtel might involve a bit of mucking around setting timers on both boxes, but you can also manually change the channel on Foxtel and manually hit REC on the DVDR.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Not you might want to get a simple passive splitter (looks like a 'T' for $5) for the aerial (maybe at the plug). So you can send the aerial cable into the HD STB and the DVDR so both get an equal and strong signal.

Get the cable guy to write down what connection he makes between each box (eg wall to DVDR aerial, DVDR to TV component, etc.) post it later on and we can probably check he's done the best

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your patience....wish I had mentioned I had the HD-STB and extra lamp in my original post, and saved you time with your first reply to me. Sorry to put you to all that bother. I did mention I had the HD-STB and lamp, though, when posting replies in the 60+70" sxrd post - but that one's about 80 pages long - so I really should have thought to include this information (duh! and smacking side of my head). I have gone back and edited my very first post to include this information just in case anyone starts the thread at that point.

Okay, so moving right along. The good news is that I do indeed have a stand alone HD-STB. You suggest I perhaps go for Option 1:

option 1 - get the EX75 (or similar). It will record all your FTA TV with out hassle just set a timer. Foxtel might involve a bit of mucking around setting timers on both boxes, but you can also manually change the channel on Foxtel and manually hit REC on the DVDR.

Manually changing channel on Foxtel and manually hitting REC on the DVDR is something I can understand....plain and simple. The timer issue will be something to explore once we have the whole shebang set up I imagine. I'm with you so far.

Am I understanding you correctly that the Panasonic DMREX75 is not a "HD" DVDR, but is in fact a "hybrid" - worded in such a manner as to confuse the general buying public (in other words, that means me!)?

If this is the case it's pretty expensive then at $712 (RRP around $775 or so I've been told) for simple upscaling of the SD signal (if it actually does that.....I'm still learning here and there's lots to learn). Am I really gaining anything by spending the money on this compared to a cheaper model without the hybrid HD tag? I could just buy a regular SD DVDR (if they exist....and if in fact they are cheaper) but I remember being told the "lesser" models to the EX75 were around the $300 mark.

Any suggestions on models to go for? Keeping in mind $400 budget, and:

Able to playback divx, avi files, CDs, MP3s

USB option would be good (PC to USB to DVDR USB port)

Ability to dub from VHS to DVD-R (using Macrovision box from Jaycar)

Region Free (what a nuisance when regions are coded and locked in)

I have a Maggie Smith movie I purchased for my mum from USA (NTSC) which doesn't play on her VCR. I'd like to copy it to DVD for her.

I'm not sure if the simple and cheaper DVDR units have progressive rather than interlace or if that is what the "hybrid HD" models do (i.e. the Panasonic DMREX75).

Sorry I was not clearer also in original post about our VCR. Yes, it's on the blink, which is in part why we are going for a DVDR straight off the bat and will just buy a cheapie ($100 VCR) to play back son's VHS movie collection and any old footy tapes we've recorded. Plus some early home movies, which we can hopefully record onto DVD. We will not be using the VCR to record (unless the DVDR breaks down at some point). I can't see any other reason though for it to do anything other than play VHS tapes we already have.

Note you might want to get a simple passive splitter (looks like a 'T' for $5) for the aerial (maybe at the plug). So you can send the aerial cable into the HD STB and the DVDR so both get an equal and strong signal.

Get the cable guy to write down what connection he makes between each box (eg wall to DVDR aerial, DVDR to TV component, etc.) post it later on and we can probably check he's done the best :)

I plan to ring the TV guy to double check he realises I have a separate HD Tuner that comes with the 70" model SONY. I'm pretty sure he is aware of this but want to make absolutely sure, in case he has not accounted for this. I will also run by him that I want the very best quality picture from Foxtel (possibly scart leads) and that I also want to be able to record onto the DVDR (i.e. record Foxtel to DVDR as well as FTA using the HD antenna connection for recording HD Quality FTA programs onto the DVDR). Recording onto the VCR is not an issue - we just need to play back on that only.

I'll mention the splitter to him also - might as well have him set things up from the get go.

Peter, again, thanks for your time and hope I've understood things and given enough informatoin (and not left anything pertinent out this time around).

I will have to call you Guru Peter from now on.

Cheers and thanks,

ozgal

[pgdownload]

Am I understanding you correctly that the Panasonic DMREX75 is not a "HD" DVDR, but is in fact a "hybrid" - worded in such a manner as to confuse the general buying public?

Yes and no. You've possible mistaken abbreviations HDD (hardrive) with HD at some point? As mentioned ALL DVDRs are SD max only. Some DVDRs can upscale their output so they claim to be 'HD' but its a pretty dubious claim.

A hybrid is expensive simply because it combines two technologies (digital and analogue) and can record from two distinct sources (digital FTA TV and PAYTV). You'd also have to buy two other boxes to get the abilities it can do. However there's no point in spending the extra if you don't need the features.

So we perhaps come full circle... What you gain with a hybrid is ease of use with respect to recording SD FTA digital TV. However this is possibly not all that critical to you. A 'standard' SD DVDR might come close to fitting your budget and you can set it up to record from either the HD STB or Foxtel. It can be a bit of a hassle making sure each box is set on the correct channel at the right time and the DVDR is recording the right one, but not that hard. You also can only record from one source (Foxtel or HD STB) at a time with a DVDR.

So for your (possible) setups you could

1) go the HD STB, std DVDR and Foxtel. IMO connect the Aerial to the HD STB. Split the HD STB to the Tv and the DVDR. And split Foxtel to the TV and the DVDR. (Note don't really need the 'T' for this setup)

2) go the HD STB, hybrid DVDR and Foxtel. IMO split the Aerial to the HD STB and the hybrid. Connect the HD STB to the Tv. And split Foxtel to the TV and the DVDR.

Note that you probably shouldn't try second guess your setup guy (will probably annoy him) but you probably know enough now that you can ask what he's setting up in a general way. Hope it goes well.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

I have a Maggie Smith movie I purchased for my mum from USA (NTSC) which doesn't play on her VCR. I'd like to copy it to DVD for her.

Probably best not to make this a criteria. Check online and you'll probably be able to get an oz version for $25?

Note stress 'best PQ' but just be careful as an AV guy is as likely as not to try sell you $300 monster cables as the 'best'.

Note that all this talk of mixing digital HD, its still quite possible to have the old analogue signal going from the aerial to the DVDR or TV for watching. Depending on your reception PQ should be fair.

[alfalfa]

Have you seriously considered getting Foxtel IQ. It is by far the most user friendly option.

Do the sums ... it is not that expensive afterall (especially when electronics depreciate so rapidly and arent built to last).

[ozgal]

Hi Peter,

You have the patience of a saint and I thank you for it.

Okay then, here I go:

Yes and no. You've possible mistaken abbreviations HDD (hardrive) with HD at some point? As mentioned ALL DVDRs are SD max only.

At first I did mix HD and HDD up, but soon learned they meant "High Definition" and "Hard Disk Drive". So okay on this point - no confusion for me here.

Some DVDRs can upscale their output so they claim to be 'HD' but its a pretty dubious claim.

Right - this is where I got confused about HD being used as a feature of a DVD Recorder. It would be far clearer if they just said: "This DVDR can upscale output but does not give true "HD" quality, but quality may perhaps be better than SD DVDR. But as you say, products sell for more if consumers believe sales hype, i.e. peforms better/greater quality (statements that are implied but not guaranteed).

I'm therefore inclined to err on the side of my budget and go for the SD DVDR.

A hybrid is expensive simply because it combines two technologies (digital and analogue) and can record from two distinct sources (digital FTA TV and PAYTV). You'd also have to buy two other boxes to get the abilities it can do. However there's no point in spending the extra if you don't need the features.

I'm still with you and nodding my head. Hybrid=one unit that can record from two distinct (i.e. separate) sources - Digital FTA T.V. as well as Analogue PAYTV=Foxtel because even though they call it a digital service it is still only an SD signal).

So we perhaps come full circle... What you gain with a hybrid is ease of use with respect to recording SD FTA digital TV. However this is possibly not all that critical to you.

You are spot on Peter! I do not believe it is all that critical for me to worry so much about recording SD FTA Digital TV as much as being able to watch the HD quality FTA (i.e. Saturday night football matches). Hope I'm still with you, with my understanding being the distinction here pertains more to the actual recording capabilities and how choice of DVD Recorder affects this (SD - cheaper, HD perhaps better quality and costing more $, and Hybrid/perhaps better quality, easier to use as it handles both Digital and Analogue and again costing more $). So long as the SD DVDR can record a good PQ that should suffice.

How the SD DVDR connects is another concern though. My understanding is composite=lowest quality, component=next step up in quality, Scart and RGB = higher quality. Please correct me if I am wrong in how I'm seeing this. The outputs of the DVDR and inputs on the TV will most likely be crucial in deciding which way to go - to attach the DVDR to the HD STB or the Foxtel STB.

In the main we watch Foxtel 99% of the time (and would like to record things we watch but as it's only SD and sometimes crappy quality we'd want the very best possible quality from our Sony TV when watching Foxtel - i.e. which cables to use - I'm thinking SCART - but again, I'm sure my TV guy said you cannot record onto any device if SCART leads are used. Is this correct? I would also occasionally like to record a Box Office movie (using the Macrovision box from Jaycar to circumvent the scramble signal between foxtel and recorder). If it's not possible with the DVDR I may even have to resort to using the VCR for these only.

I'm not sure how to proceed from this point, Peter, because viewing and recording seem to have competing requirements.

I'd like the best quality for both viewing and recording.

I wonder if you can help me understand the distinctiions here.

For a female who grapples with cables and the plugs they go into (let alone the inner workings of all the components plus how SD or HD affects them) this all gets pretty complicated for my average brain; equivalent perhaps to the maths equation in "Good Will Hunting". (Love that movie, by the way!).

Note that you probably shouldn't try second guess your setup guy (will probably annoy him) but you probably know enough now that you can ask what he's setting up in a general way. Hope it goes well.

I absolutely agree with this and will have to be very diplomatic with my T.V. guy. I'd hate to offend him in any way/put his nose out of joint/frustrate him....or quite possibly do all three at once!

A 'standard' SD DVDR might come close to fitting your budget and you can set it up to record from either the HD STB or Foxtel. It can be a bit of a hassle making sure each box is set on the correct channel at the right time and the DVDR is recording the right one, but not that hard. You also can only record from one source (Foxtel or HD STB) at a time with a DVDR.  So for your (possible) setups you could:

Okay....

1) go the HD STB, std DVDR and Foxtel. IMO connect the Aerial to the HD STB. Split the HD STB to the Tv and the DVDR. And split Foxtel to the TV and the DVDR. (Note don't really need the 'T' for this setup)

Righto:-

Option 1

1. Go the HD STB, std DVDR and Foxtel.

2. Connect the Aerial to the HD STB.

3. Split the HD STB to the TV and the DVDR.

3a. Is this so we can watch FTA HD Quality?

3b. And record SD Quality?

4. Split Foxtel to the TV and the DVDR.

4a. To watch Foxtel SD in best quality can we use SCART for viewing side of things only, i.e. Scart lead for Foxtel to TV?

4b. If Scart cannot be used when recording from Foxtel to any device, can we use component lead for recording side of things, i.e. component lead for Foxtel to DVDR?

Option 2

2) Go the HD STB, hybrid DVDR and Foxtel. IMO split the Aerial to the HD STB and the hybrid.  Connect the HD STB to the Tv. And split Foxtel to the TV and the DVDR.

I don't think we can afford this option at this time and am not sure it gives us all that much extra.

Regards the Maggie Smith movie, you say:

Probably best not to make this a criteria. Check online and you'll probably be able to get an oz version for $25?

I have already purchased the movie (The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearne, starring Maggie Smith and Bob Hoskins) which to the best of my knowledge is available in only one format, i.e. VHS NTSC (which is why I purchased it from www.amazon.com). I'm hoping to record this onto the DVDR.

Note, stress 'best PQ' but just be careful as an AV guy is as likely as not to try sell you $300 monster cables as the 'best'.

We have already discussed cables and agreed not to spend excessive amounts on these. I offered to buy cables from Jaycar in Melbourne to keep price low. TV guy gets his cables from same same supplier as Jaycar, so said would be same cost. No mention of monster cables. He's actually been pretty good with prices and tries to stick within client's budget.

Note that all this talk of mixing digital HD, its still quite possible to have the old analogue signal going from the aerial to the DVDR or TV for watching. Depending on your reception PQ should be fair.

Not sure quite what you mean here, Peter. Do you mean we may not necessarily get a HD signal from our current antenna? I hope not, because the reason we have Foxtel is due to crappy reception if only an antenna is connected to TV (but keeping in mind that current TV - Sony WEGA has SD signal only, not HD). I hope I'm interpreting correctly and making sense with my answer.

I am in your debt and extend my heartfelt thanks for your generous help and for reading this far (it's turned into a novel). Your answers have been a Godsend and I'm sure will provide guidance for others who also find this a bit overwhelming.

Cheers,

ozgal

[pgdownload]

You have the patience of a saint and I thank you for it.

Glad its making sime sort of sense Ozgal

I'm therefore inclined to err on the side of my budget and go for the SD DVDR.

Note that an upscaling DVD device will provide a better PQ than SD and its becoming quite standard these days. So price might not be that much more - just saying don't discount a device that has it out of hand. The marketing though would suggest you're buying a HD digital DVDR.

Hope I'm still with you, with my understanding being the distinction here pertains more to the actual recording capabilities and how choice of DVD Recorder

Spot on. We're really only talking about how convenient and at what PQ recordings will be made.

So long as the SD DVDR can record a good PQ that should suffice.

Should be fine, the only 'mismatch' here is Foxtel PQ => analogue DVDR => 70" 1080p TV. It will probably take quite a few years before other components in your setup match the quality of the TV. Till then, we're all on a budget )

My understanding is composite=lowest quality, component=next step up in quality, Scart and RGB = higher quality.

Quite correct, except that SCART is just a plug type you decide what signal type goes down it - composite, component, RGB, etc. This is set in the menus and/or by the cable combo you buy (so you can have a SCART=>Component cable, etc.

to attach the DVDR to the HD STB or the Foxtel STB.

You'll do both presumably. If the DVD has component in then this is what you'll get from the HD STB.

I'm sure my TV guy said you cannot record onto any device if SCART leads are used. Is this correct?

I'm no Foxtel 'guru' but I believe not. If I understand correctly Foxtel has two output options - SCART (with Component, Svideo, RGB, composite settings) and a dedicated COMPOSITE output. Posts suggest you can send one to the TV and one to the DVDR (so you can view in higher quality or record in higher quality but not both). One possible option is to get a switching box (or splitter box?) for sending the Foxtel output to a DVDR and/or TV - not sure on this.

Anyway here's a post on the exact query:

http://www.dtvforum.info/lofiversion/index.php/t42328.html

And here's the Foxtel FAQ that should answer quite a few queries:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=42367

I'm not sure how to proceed from this point, Peter, because viewing and recording seem to have competing requirements. I'd like the best quality for both viewing and recording.

) Just got down to this bit. It may be you have to make a choice.

3. Split the HD STB to the TV and the DVDR.

3a. Is this so we can watch FTA HD Quality?

3b. And record SD Quality?

Yep. At this point I'll give my general tip on cabling. It really helps to get the inputs and outputs of each box sorted in your head. All boxes will tend to have both. But if you just break it down to 'the output from the HD STB to the DVDR allows me to record the TV to the DVDR. What output options do I have on the STB what input options do I have in the DVDR? What matches? What's the best quality match?

It only get a little tougher when you find you run out of plugs and then have to decide which 'match' to down grade to a lesser cable.

4a. To watch Foxtel SD in best quality can we use SCART for viewing side of things only, i.e. Scart lead for Foxtel to TV?

4b. If Scart cannot be used when recording from Foxtel to any device, can we use component lead for recording side of things, i.e. component lead for Foxtel to DVDR?

I believe SCART covers all 'better' cabling options (see above) only other choice is composite.

Note composite recording to the SD DVDR will probably not be that bad. You might decide to try it and see (its only cause you're blowing the recording up to 70" that this becomes more of an issue than usual) If you're happy to still use a VCR at its PQ then you should find a composite connection to DVDR is quite a bit better.

He's actually been pretty good with prices and tries to stick within client's budget.

Good to here.

Not sure quite what you mean here, Peter. Do you mean we may not necessarily get a HD signal from our current antenna?

Not at all. Just saying the analogue signal is still coming down the same antenna as well. DVDRs are analogue devices (like VCRs) so after you have all you digital signals/ Foxtel sorted out its also quite possible to have the analogue signal plugged into the DVDR (for recording) or TV (for viewing).

extend my heartfelt thanks

No probs. In and out this weekend so might not get back for a bit but those links should provide some good reading. Also do some searches on 'foxtel' 'dvdr' etc. and you should get a number of 'what dvdr should I buy?'

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[ozgal]

Peter,

You are a star!

Thanks for replying so quickly and providing so much great information.

I will check out the links and go from there.

Have a great weekend!

Cheers,

ozgal

[ozgal]

Hi there Peter and those watching this thread,

Now Sunday night and still sorting choice out.

1.Have decided to upgrade from Foxtel digital to Foxtel IQ - Cost $10 per month as we are on platinum package (fits the budget).

2.Our VCR is on the blink - have huge library of movie videos - so need to replace this. (VCRs are pretty cheap, so that's good).

3.A cheap DVD recorder without Hard Drive, hopefully with progressive scan, copy to blank DVD-RW, DVD +/-, play divx, CDR, MP3, USB for playback of avi/Divx would be a nice bonus. If price difference is not huge would also consider cheapie DVD recorder with 160GB Hard drive.

If anyone could suggest some brands/prices that fit the above (VCR, DVD Recorder - with and without Hard Drive) and also any terrible deficiences we might be in for I'd be ever so grateful. In particular, I'm not sure how all the inputs and outputs fit together in the big picture - i.e. Recording HD FTA to the DVD Recorder he- how does that fit in - where does it get connected, with the above plan?

My TV guy suggested I try and find a DVD Recorder with HDMI out without hard drive to cut cost down - but I have not been able to source any. From what I can tell the non-HDMI output DVDRs come with and without hard drives but the HDMI output units only seem to come with hard drives.

Thanks again for any and all help.

Cheers,

ozgal

[pgdownload]

Hi OzGal,

Good to see you picked up on Alfalfa's recomendation there. Foxtel have got a pretty good ammortasization scheme if you're willing to sign up for a few years )

You're correct that HDMI basically means the DVDR will have a drive - its a 'premium' feature so not found on cheaper 'driveless' drives. That said, most people recommend its well worth the extra $ to get a drive (doesn't have to be big) as it makes copying stuff to a DVD much easier and much nicer:

1) you can usually edit out ads or cut big shows in half etc.

2) you can copy to harddrive at one point and then do the burrn to DVD at your leisure (ie you don't have to set up the recording so that the DVD is burning while the show is playing)

3) without a harddrive casually recording FTA TV from a STB is a real hassle - Copying straight to DVD is more suited to when the show is stored somewhere (like on the IQ) and can be accessed as needed.

As for models something like the Panasonic EH55 ($520 without much searching) is often recommended

Choice rated these pretty excellent (Oct 06) - IMO the first two criteria are the most important (note that prices given are usually RRP and you'll find them cheaper (the EH55 for example is about $520 without much looking around) :

Overall (%) Ease of use (%) Picture quality (%) Sound quality (%) Error correction (%) Standby power (%) TV reception (%) DVD replay (%) Price ($)

LG RH1888H 			85 	76 	80 	91 	97 	96 	94 	94 	649
PANASONIC DMR-EH55 	84 	80 	82 	95 	69 	94 	89 	96 	659
JVC DR-MH300S 			 82		 79		 78		 94		 89		 76		 95		 92		899
PIONEER DVR-540H 	   81 	   72 	   77 	   92 	   83	  92 	   89 	   96	  699

LG RH1888H

Good points

* It is suitable for the novice owner.

* Easy to program timer recordings.

* Can record dual layer DVDs (almost doubles the recording capacity on DVD).

* HDMI out connection.

* Timer is easy to use.

Bad points

* Only one analogue stereo audio output.

* Some evidence of image break-up with moderately compression (4hrs on DVD).

* At maximum capacity (6 hrs on DVD) obvious pixilation and artefacts (even though the picture remains sharp).

PANASONIC DMR-EH55

Good points

* Can record dual layer DVDs (almost doubles the recording capacity on DVD), but only directly from the HDD.

* Slot for SD & MMC card types.

* The remote has large buttons, boldly labelled and is uncluttered.

Bad points

* Can't play WMA (Windows Media Audio files - similar to MP3).

* Limited CD playback features.

* Second worst error correction score - so perhaps not the best choice if you hire a lot of DVDs.

* At maximum capacity setting (8hrs on DVD) pictures show juddering and appear soft (slightly out of focus).

JVC DR-MH300S

Good points

* Excellent video and audio quality from the inbuilt tuner.

* Well spaced and clearly labelled buttons on remote.

* Handbook rated best for clarity and diagrams.

Bad points

* Can't play WMA audio or MPEG4 video.

* At maximum capacity setting (8hrs on DVD) pictures show some juddering and pixelation.

* Expensive.

PIONEER DVR-540H

Good points

* Can record dual layer DVDs (almost doubles the recording capacity on DVD).

* The remote has large well spaced and clearly labelled buttons.

* Useful on-screen help function.

Bad points

* No DV input.

* At maximum capacity setting (10hrs on DVD) pictures show some juddering, pixelation and other picture faults, but our panel thought it a reasonable result given the extra recoding tim

The Pana and the Pineer get lots of good comments on the forums (No idea on divx etc capabilities though.)

As to the connections well you've simplified things somewhat. Foxtel IQ does most of the works I'd imagine. You can get the IQ connected to the DVDR and be able to replay a show on the IQ and have it record onto the DVDR (possibly drive) for later processing. Since this won't happen often (only for stuff you want to burn) you can even have the good picture quality cable from the IQ

An interesting thread on the IQ and Foxtel (The Foxtel seems to have better output options?). Copy protection enabled on the premiere Movie Channel apparently.

As for the FTA side well you have two choices each with plusses and minuses.

1) Connect the STB to the TV and also to the DVDR. Note if you don't have a harddrive then casual recording of FTA shows to the DVDR is pretty awkward With a drive you can set a timer on the DVDR to record or manually do it. Note the drawback of this method is that both the STB an the DVDR need to be set to be on the right channel and recording at the right time. The advantage is you get really nice digital widescreen recordings on the DVDR harddrive (not HD but crystal clear none the less)

2) Connect the aerial straight to the DVDR and then connect it onto the STB and then connect each box seperately to the TV. This means the DVDR is getting the analogue signal in. Its 4:3 and depending on your reception should be pretty good. The advantage is you can just set a timer on the DVDR and it will change channels etc. and record your show. The disadvantage is you are recording the analogue signal (which might look pretty good still). You can then switch between viewing from the HD STB (live) or the DVDR (recorded) as you want.

Note that you'll grow to love the Foxtel pause live TV, FF & rewind features (timeshifting is fantastic as you can start recording the footy, hit pause, and then sit down 30 minutes later to start watching - then just FF through the ads as they pop up. Buy time the final quarter is up you're pretty much back to watching live ) A harddrive in a DVDR allows some of these capabilities to a limited extent (like timeshifting as well))

Note as a final option to consider in the future. You can get a cheap SD PVR like the Digicrystal from Strathfield for around $220. This might allow you to:

1) Watch and record Foxtel on the IQ

2) Watch HD TV live on the STB

3) Watch and record SD FTA 16:9 on the PVR

4) Transfer the odd show from the IQ or the PVR to the DVDR for burning later (could make the DVDR one without a drive in this case as the show is stored on the Digicrystal)

Anyway, enough rattling on. I've got some work to do

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[ozgal]

Thanks Peter,

You are a champ and yes, Alfala's suggestion of the Foxtel IQ is definitely something that will make it all easier (a big thanks to Alfalfa).

I'm going to print out your advice and use it as my guide...thanks again for the pros and cons of DVD recorders. I can see the merits of purchasing one with the Hard drive. No point in making things harder than they need to be.

Time to make a decision and go shopping.

Again, much obliged for your generous and informative advice.

Cheers,

ozgal

[ozgal]

Have you seriously considered getting Foxtel IQ. It is by far the most user friendly option.

Do the sums ... it is not that expensive afterall (especially when electronics depreciate so rapidly and arent built to last).

Hi there Alfalfa - sorry I neglected to say thank you. It took a while for the advantages of IQ to sink in. I've ordered it and have my fingers crossed the self install kit will arrive tomorrow when the TV guy is booked to set up our system.

Cheers and thanks so much for your help.

ozgal

[Psycho!]

I dont know if this has been mentioned but I have the Pioneer DVR630H hooked up to my Home Theatre setup. and ever since I have had it I noticed that it had a dedicated 'satellite' input L3 which I assumed was for overseas stuff ect....as I was living in a place that could only get satellite we never bothered about the Foxtel Boxoffice.

Anyway we moved to a rental while we are building a new house and it has Cable connection for Foxtel. So I hooked my home theatre up and when I had the Foxtel guys come out and connect the setupm in on a new point in the lounge room he queried what input I ran Foxtel on. I told him on L3 the dedicate "satellite' channel, and so he connected it there.

Right now, HERE IS THE IMPORTANT BIT. I rang up to book a Box Office movie and when I mentioned to the lady that I would record it and watch it later in the week she advised me that their Box Office movies are encrypted and I could not / WOULD not be able to record it. I had to watch the movie during the perioed I had unlocked it. HMMM I was pretty pissed at this .

ANOTHER IMPORTANT BIT....Anyway, long story short, the Pioneer DVR630H unscrambles and records perfectly fine any encrypted/scrambled cable/satellite broadcasts beautifully from Foxtel.

I dont know itf its common knowledge or wether any other DVDR or PVR do so as well but I thought I'd let you know.

[ozgal]

Hi Peter and others,

After checking availability and online prices for DVD Recorders, rang JB Hi Fi in Chapel Street, Prahran/Melbourne. They had purchased a bulk lot of Hitachi DVDR's - with 250GB Hard Drive and pretty much all the features I've been wanting included.

I did look at all the others suggested, Peter, but with a tight budget in mind, the Hitachi seems to fit the bill.

Hitachi DV-DS253A

250GB HDD DVD Recorder

RRP for this unit is $769.00

JB's bulk buy price is $488.

I've been chatting with Anthony - very helpful, friendly guy at Prahran JB store, who let me have one for $450.00. Also purchased a basic LG 6 head stereo VCR for $105 (ticket price was $129.00). Plus he gave me a good deal on 5 yr extended warranty on the Hitachi DVDR - $59.00 instead of $79.

All up, got the Hitachi DVDR with 250GB HD and HDMI output+5yr extended warranty and LG 6 head VCR for $614.00.

Specs for Hitachi are below with a link further down. I'm hoping I have not missed anything and that I've made a wise decision. TV guy comes out tomorrow to set everything up. I've asked him to set up Foxtel IQ with Scart to Component so we can view Foxtel on our Sony 70 incher in the best quality available. I'm still a bit confused on how the DVDR hooks up to it all for copying off the IQ and for copying FTA HD broadcasts (i.e. is it possible to use the S-video in on the Hitachi DVDR to get a bit better picture quality for the recording side?), but once the set up is complete I hope I can finally understand how it all works together.

Anyway, here's the specs:

Hitachi DV-DS253A

250GB HDD DVD Recorder

Key Features

HDMI connection - for the ultimate in picture and sound quality

Super multi recording (DVD ±R/ ±RW/ -RAM) **on the side of the box also says DL double layer recording**

1080i HDMI up scaling

250GB HDD capacity

56 hours (min) - 338 hours in EP mode (max) recording time

DV input - easy transfer from a digital video camera

Direct navigator - quick access to material on HDD

DivX playback - supports Divx 5,4,3

Multi memory card slot

Supported cards - compact flash, micro drive, SD card, mini SD card, multi media card, XP picture card **On box also says MP3 and WMA**Time slip functions - chasing playback, simultaneous recording & playback, time slip button

High speed dubbing - From HDD to DVD-RAM

Here's the link:

http://www.hitachi.com.au/pr-DV-DS253A.seo

I also get Aldi's email each week showing upcoming items for sale. This week they have a 1GB SD card for $19.99 (could copy avi's onto the SD and play through the DVDR - but then again this is no different to copying to DVD. In any case I also have an electronic book reader that takes SD cards so a spare 1G card would come in handy, plus can also use in my digital camera).

Cheers and will post update once the system is up and running.

ozgal

(I feel like my life has been totally taken over by TVs, input and output connections, DVDRs and such.....been a wild ride so far trying to learn about it all).

[ozgal]

Right now, HERE IS THE IMPORTANT BIT.  I rang up to book a Box Office movie and when I mentioned to the lady that I would record it and watch it later in the week she advised me that their Box Office movies are encrypted and I could not / WOULD not be able to record it.  I had to watch the movie during the perioed I had unlocked it.  HMMM I was pretty pissed at this .

ANOTHER IMPORTANT BIT....Anyway, long story short, the Pioneer DVR630H unscrambles and records perfectly fine any encrypted/scrambled cable/satellite broadcasts beautifully from Foxtel.

I dont know itf its common knowledge or wether any other DVDR or PVR do so as well but I thought I'd let you know.

Hi there,

Always good to know when something works in the consumer's favour! Enjoy the bonus of your setup.

Wonder if others have found this to be the case also?

Cheers,

ozgal

[Vortical]

(I feel like my life has been totally taken over by TVs, input and output connections, DVDRs and such.....been a wild ride so far trying to learn about it all).

It's fun isn't it

[ozgal]

It's fun isn't it

Hi Vortical,

Mmmm....fun.....not sure if that is the word I'd use. LOL! But interesting...very interesting, as Zigfried would often say to Maxwell Smart. (At least I think it was Zigfried).

ozgal