Dungog Digital Tv

[digitalj]

PRIME is due in December 2007

[Jason_dinAlt]

And I take it that it didnt happen? I just bought a house in Dungog and move in December and when I enquired about digital tv the local tv repair shop says still only abc and sbs

Is it possible to get Mt Sugarloaf in Dungog? I can just get it in Booral with a 91 element antenna and mast head amp and Dungog isnt that much further

[alanh]

Jason,

If you look at Get the Best Reception, Regional NSW and read the links you will find the ACMA has allocated the channels for all networks in Dungog. They have done this because reliable reception of Sugarloaf cannot be guaranteed.

I would leave your antenna installation in Booral. All that is needed in the town of Dungog is a small band 5 Yagi which is perfect for both analog and digital reception. This antenna must be horizontal, where as local signals in Booral are vertical.

AlanH

[Jason_dinAlt]

Thanks Alan

the 3 commercial channels on the local transmitter at Dungog are definately currently analog only. No-one seems to be able to get an answer if and when they will switch to digital, all you can get is a "TBA". ABC and SBS are digital

Interestingly if you drive around the town you occassionally see a high mast with an antenna aimed at Mt Sugarloafs direction, but they are all very old, I assume it was for analog before the local transmitter was built

[alanh]

Jason,

I think your conclusions are correct. Remember in digital you don't get grainy pictures as the signal strength drops you just loose picture and sound simultaneously.

AlanH

[Jason_dinAlt]

I had a play today and im a very happy camper. I put up my 91 element uhf antenna and hills amp on a mast about 15 m above my roof line and im getting all mt sugarloaf perfectly on digital, even the HD channels are showing 100% quality. It didnt change when it was pouring rain an hour ago. Now I can watch the v8s and footy in HD woohoo

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9434/sigstrength.jpg

[abelard]

I had a play today and im a very happy camper. I put up my 91 element uhf antenna and hills amp on a mast about 15 m above my roof line and im getting all mt sugarloaf perfectly on digital, even the HD channels are showing 100% quality. It didnt change when it was pouring rain an hour ago. Now I can watch the v8s and footy in HD woohoo

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9434/sigstrength.jpg

Hi Jason,

I'm a recent move to Dungog, trying to get commercial channels on digital.

I installed a Hills Optimax OMX200NEW antenna, and only get ABC & SBS.

(not sure how to count elements, but there is definitely a lot less than 91).

I'm near the southern end of Eloiza, have view across town to Eastern row of hills.

Any idea if the Hills amp would make the difference for us?

And is Mt Sugarloaf directly South from Dungog?

[digitalj]

Hi Jason,

I'm a recent move to Dungog, trying to get commercial channels on digital.

I installed a Hills Optimax OMX200NEW antenna, and only get ABC & SBS.

(not sure how to count elements, but there is definitely a lot less than 91).

I'm near the southern end of Eloiza, have view across town to Eastern row of hills.

Any idea if the Hills amp would make the difference for us?

And is Mt Sugarloaf directly South from Dungog?

Dungog has it's own translator and as far as I know, ABC and SBS are all that are on air there, if you want commercials, you could try to do what Jason did, but there are no guarantees that that will work for you.

[alanh]

abelard,

The direction the antenna needs to be pointed depends on your and the transmitter's location. The Dungog translator only needs a small band 5 Yagi-Uda antenna if you are in town. The I assume that you are trying to get Mt Sugarloaf for the commercials.The antenna you mention, around half of it is for receiving analog channels 3 & 5A. You can still use this antenna for FM radio from Newcastle. I would use a UHF phased array for Newcastle digital until the commercial translators are installed in Dungog. The so called 91 element antenna only has around 23 real elements.

As far as Masthead amplifiers goes I would use a Kingray MH44b5 amplifier because it will have maximum amplification for the channels you are using.

AlanH

[alanh]

abelard,

Dungong transmitters are on Coorei Hill which is 4 km bearing 148 deg (South East). This only requires a small band 5 Yagi-Uda antenna.

Mt Sugarloaf 57 km 196 degrees (South south west)

This is a severely blocked path. You are relying on the very powerfull transmitters on Mt Sugarloaf and the weather conditions. The best type of antenna in this situation is a high gain UHF phased array and a Kingray MH44b5 masthead amplifer. Continuous error free reception cannot be guaranteed particularly in heavy rain.

Hills Optimax OMX200NEW is not suitable for digital reception.

AlanH

[abelard]

abelard,

Dungong transmitters are on Coorei Hill which is 4 km bearing 148 deg (South East). This only requires a small band 5 Yagi-Uda antenna.

Mt Sugarloaf 57 km 196 degrees (South south west)

This is a severely blocked path. You are relying on the very powerfull transmitters on Mt Sugarloaf and the weather conditions. The best type of antenna in this situation is a high gain UHF phased array and a Kingray MH44b5 masthead amplifer. Continuous error free reception cannot be guaranteed particularly in heavy rain.

Hills Optimax OMX200NEW is not suitable for digital reception.

AlanH

Thanks for that info.

I subsequently emailed Hills about the suitability of the Optimax OMX200NEW, here's the reply:

"The Optimax 200NEW is used for the Newcastle transmitter (Mt Sugarloaf),

but for poor reception areas such as Dungog, then a phased array antenna

like the Ultimax36 is better suited. (see attachment)

The Kingray MHU44b5 amplifier isn't the best option as the gain is

measured from 600MHz to 860MHz, which only covers channels 39 to 75. As

the digital channels from the Sugarloaf transmitter are 36, 37, 38, 51 &

53, you'll need a wide band UHF amplifier that covers all the channels

mentioned. Kingray have a few models as does Hills.

Otherwise you can use a UHF antenna to pick up the signal from the local

transmitter at Coorie Hill. However, the only 2 digital channel that are

broadcasted from that transmitter are ABC & SBS. The other 3 digital

commercial channels should hopefully be actived by the end of the year. "

A pdf of details of the Ultimax 36 was attached, but it's 1.7mb.

If interested I can forward it, didn't seem like a good idea to upload it here, but I can if you like.

I had installed the OMX200NEW anyway, getting fine reception digital ABC1, 2 & 3, SBS1 & 2 + analog commercials, aerial pointed to Coorie Hill.

So think I'll wait for digital from Coorie Hill.

thanks again for yr help.

[alanh]

abelard,

It is a pity Hills is giving the wrong advice.

Optimax OMX200NEW is designed to receive channel 3 (NBN analog), channel 5A (ABC1 analog) which is also broadcast in analog on channel 48, NEN54 (analog), NRN57 (analog)

Digital

ABHN 37, SBS 38, NRN 51, NEN 53, NBN 36

Since the OMX200NEW is designed for channel 3 & 5A strong FM radio signals are within this range and so reduces the reliability of reception. In addition the wide parts of the antenna which receives channel 3 & 5A will never be used for digital.

Hills Newcastle should only sell their Band 5 Yagis for all stations in the Hunter Valley except for;

Kotara (Centenary Lookout Charlestown)

Cassilis

Merriwa

Port Stephens

Vacy

which should use UHF phased arrays because of vertical polarisation.

Long distance or diffuse reception phased arrays should be swapped for Yagis and vice versa.

Australia only has UHF channels 27 - 69 not 75.

Band 5 is from channel 36 - 69.

Dungog Analog

SBS42

ABHN60

NEN63

NRN66

NBN69

Dungong Digital

ABHN59

SBS61

Since all these channels are between 36 - 69 which is band 5. This is what the front half of the antenna is used for.

You may send this to Hills if you wish.

AlanH

[Antennae]

Dear Senior member AlanH,

As you have nicely put it, "It is a pity Hills is giving the wrong advice". So to further my education can you please clarify my errors & steer me in the right direction?

I said the follow to abelard,

"The Optimax 200NEW is used for the Newcastle transmitter (Mt Sugarloaf),

but for poor reception areas such as Dungog, then a phased array antenna

like the Ultimax36 is better suited. (see attachment)

Which part of this statement is incorrect? The OMX200NEW is designed & used in Newcastle to pickup both analogue & digital channels being brodcoast from Mt Sugarloaf. Those channels are 3 & 5A in the VHF spectrum & 36, 37, 38, 45, 48, 51, 53, 54 & 57 in the UHF spectrum. I then went on to say that a phased array antenna is better suited to pickup the digital channels from Dungog. I suggested this antenna in response to your post Apr 24 2009, 12:48 AM, where you said, The best type of antenna in this situation is a high gain UHF phased array . So adding to that I suggested the Ultimax36 is better suited, but I never said it was the only option.

The Kingray MHU44b5 amplifier isn't the best option as the gain is

measured from 600MHz to 860MHz, which only covers channels 39 to 75. As

the digital channels from the Sugarloaf transmitter are 36, 37, 38, 51 &

53, you'll need a wide band UHF amplifier that covers all the channels

mentioned. Kingray have a few models as does Hills.

Please check out the the link for the MHU44b5 amplifier.

http://www2.gme.net.au/matv_docs/MHU44G-MHU44B5.pdf

You'll see clearly that the specs says 600-800MHz, which covers channels 38/39 to 75. Band 5 in Australia is classified as Ch38-75, regardless of the fact that there are no TV channels allocated above Ch69. But the main point here is that this amplifier isn't suited for the UHF channels from Mt Sugarloaf, as they start from Ch36, which this amplifier doesn't cover. Additionally the amplifier isn't an F-Type, which is what should also be recommeded, hence I said to use another amplifier instead.

Otherwise you can use a UHF antenna to pick up the signal from the local

transmitter at Coorie Hill. However, the only 2 digital channel that are

broadcasted from that transmitter are ABC & SBS. The other 3 digital

commercial channels should hopefully be actived by the end of the year. "

UHF antenna for the local transmitter in Dungog? I think we both agree there.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, but please point out my errors so I don't make the same mistake again.

Thank you.

[Jason_dinAlt]

abelard, First let me say that there is no way I would argue with alan or any of the other antenna people here about which antenna is best for getting mt sugarloaf in dungog, the only reason I used a 91 element (which is actually 23 elements as alan says, thats just the name they antenna people give them probably because of the shape of the reflectors i think) is because its what I had on hand at the time, I brought it over from my previous property in the booral/allworth area. Its got a Kingray amp on it and it works very very well, all the digital channels scream in, i have only ever lost signal once and it was absolutely belting down at the time. Im half way up the hill very near the showgrounds and the antenna is pretty well elevated, I aimed it in the approx direction u see a couple of the older vhf antennas around town, i had one two doors down to use as a reference and struck it lucky, so i didnt try to tweak it, the old principle of if it works dont mess with it. its aimed slightly west of south, and i still cant understand why no-one in town has it, surely im not the only one in town who cant stand to watch a snowy analogue picture on a WS HD TV?

If you ask the antenna people in Dungog they say its impossible and wont even try, but if your in the right part of town (i must be in a sweet spot) it is workable

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jason_dinAlt

[Jason_dinAlt]

I'm near the southern end of Eloiza, have view across town to Eastern row of hills.

I just noticed that part of your post, u are only one street west of me, but a little bit more south, the further south you go up Eloiza the more hill you have in the way, and hills play havoc with UHF, but still it might not hurt to try.

But u definately will need an amp

So think I'll wait for digital from Coorie Hill.

dont hold your breath, no-one has been able to give me any answers as to when, if ever

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jason_dinAlt

[alanh]

Antennae,

If you are trying to receive digital you want all the antenna tuned to the channels transmitting digital. In Australia, there is no digital TV transmitters on channels below channel 6. All the longer parts of the antennas are for the lowest channel numbers and are not used for digital. So none of the Omnimax range should be used for digital for that reason including the model for Newcastle.

Newcastle digital transmitters: ABHN channel 37 SBS 38 NRN 51 NEN 53 NBN 36. All of these channels are in band 5. So for digital a band 5 antenna is required.

Newcastle is a worse case because the antennas designed for channels 3 & 5A are particularly good at picking up strong FM signals (also from Mt Sugarloaf) which will cause digital errors. Strong NBN and ABHN 5A signals make the situation worse. The long elements could be cut into much shorter ones and added to the UHF section to make the antenna even more sensitive.

By the way the ABC analog is not only on channel 5A but also on channel 48, this is in addition to a digital simulcasts on channel 37.

As far as phased arrays vs Yagi-Uda/Log Periodics is concerned read comparison of types

So for Newcastle reception band 5 Yagis should be sold except for Kotara (Centenary Lookout, Charlestown),which should be a small phased array because it's a vertically polarised signal. Anymore discussion of Newcastle should be in the Newcastle Viewers' forum

For masthead amplifiers you need a filter to remove all channels except those you wish to receive. In this case you only need for digital band 5.

The analog switch off in the Hunter Valley (including Newcastle) is between 1st July - 31st December 2012. However people who buy DTV or STBs prior to this time need to buy an antenna designed for digital for reliable reception. A band 5 antenna will receive all analog broadcasts except NBN analog.

So for Dungong to receive Mt Sugarloaf I have selected a phased array because there is terrain blocking the signal.

Band 5 is channel 36 = 582 MHz to channel 69 = 820 MHz. There is no Australian channels above channel 69 because there is mobile phones using frequencies above 820 MHz.

Antennae, if you wish you can message me once you have made 5 posts.

AlanH

[Jason_dinAlt]

Well finally I am not the only one watching digital from mount sugarloaf in Dungog. Today I spotted a new antenna on a house near the council chambers, yes all the way down the hill near the main drag! And its the same as mine, 91 element, on a very high mast, definately aimed at MS.

And still no news available on when the local transmitter is going to transmit nbn, sc10 and prime on digital, if ever

[alanh]

Jason_dinAlt,

Dungog will have all the DTV transmitters before 1st July 2012 because analog switchoff can occur after that.

AlanH

[Frenchy182]

Would be nice if they could have Digital TV up in Dungog before 2010.

Highly unlikely, I'm sure receiving Mount Sugarloaf signals with my Location is quite impossible.

I'm in town but the lowest point in Brown St won't exactly help.

HD League would be a dream, at least SBS seems to have a HD looking feed of the cricket.

[Jason_dinAlt]

Frenchy, the antenna I saw yesterday aimed at mt sugarloaf IS in Brown St, almost the last house before Dowling St, why dont u take a walk and have a look if he is any higher than you or if there are any visible obstructions preventing you doing the same, or knock on his door and ask who installed it. If it was professionally done, which I assume from the height of the mast then maybe that installer could give you some signal strength readings and advise if u could get it. If you are the French in 66 Brown st then you are no lower than me, well not a lot anyway, im in simmonds lane

Alan, thats 2 years away! Thats bloody ridiculous to have to put up with crappy analog, seeing that sc10 have no plans to transmit onehd either as sd or in analog its a shame most people here wont have the option of watching it. i love the pics on onehd and even sbs hd looks great

Edited July 20, 2009 by Jason_dinAlt

[Lucc]

My reception is horrid. I can't get ONE SINGLE channel to work out here in Carrabolla... I'm using a Yagi UHF Corner Reflecter... and even Analogue channels suck, there's heaps of snow and stuff.

[Jason_dinAlt]

Im no expert but isnt there a digital transmitter at musswelbrook? Thats got to be a better option than mt sugarloaf or dungog. Gloucester has those huge hills between you so no lucjk there either

[alanh]

Rooster097,

You are surrounded by hills which block the signal. Your only option is Optus Aurora satellite free to air service.

Read Get the Best Reception, Regional NSW and read the link near the end of the post 1st post.

[Lucc]

Rooster097,

You are surrounded by hills which block the signal. Your only option is Optus Aurora satellite free to air service.

Read Get the Best Reception, Regional NSW and read the link near the end of the post 1st post.

No, it wouldn't be! My neighbor has a UHF Phased Array aimed south towards the Vacy transmitter, as well as a dirty great big VHF Yagi pointing in that direction and they get 80% signal quality. Recently they aimed the UHF at Mt Sugarloaf and moved the VHF around a bit to get HD channels. This ruined analogue signals a lot and got rid of a few digital ones as well, I think. We're not really interested in HD at the moment so we'll just aim the antenna south. What is up there at the moment is one of those 80's UHF 20 or so element Yagi antennas (The ones with the flat elements, not the X shaped ones.) aimed south, hooked up to a Kingray Masthead booster (MBX302 or something, can't remember). There also used to be a VHF Yagi analogue antenna on top but dad said that it didn't work properly (It did work good for analogue, even without a booster.), which is now connected, along with a giant 60's Yagi to my television set. The only thing that the UHF Yagi is connected to is the booster and family TV. One time I actually got Prime Digital to work perfectly for about an hour and a half... antenna must have moved a bit. Anyway, a phased array would be the way to go, maybe a new Yagi VHF later on... but what I need to know is this:

1. Should the antenna be aimed at Vacy or towards Mt Sugarloaf? Which is stronger?

2. We are in a natural 'basin' so there are mountains all around us. Our neighbor's antenna is about 4-5m higher that us (They are on a bit of a hill, slightly higher). Should our pole be higher?

3. In front of the antenna is the following: a power line, two trees about 3.5m high (The antenna is above these), a large tree about 5-6m high, but is South West so there are no signals being blocked by it. About 80cm next to the antenna pole is a big momma internet satellite dish, about 1.3m wide, aimed in the opposite direction. Will any of these effect signal quality? (I doubt it, but better to check)

Thanks guys.

[alanh]

Rooster097,

HD channels are combined with the Digital SD in the one signal in Newcastle

Vacy currently only has ABC & SBS. There is no point in using a VHF antenna for this site because there is no VHF transmitters there.

There is no VHF channels in the Hunter Valley with digital signals other than Muswellbrook.

I would use a UHF phased array for Mt Sugarloaf with a band 5 masthead amplifier. They model number you mention does not ring a bell.

As for which is stronger, you need to message me with your exact location after you have 5 posts.

AlanH