Topfield 5000pvrt Masterpiece

[I am Murphy]

Calling on Topfield owners for advice.

I purchased a new (but old stock) Topfield 5000PVRt Masterpiece with 160GB HDD yesterday. From our seating position, and with audio amps muted, there is a noticeable sound coming from the hard disk drive, perhaps best described as "ticking" or "clicking". The "ticking" is loud enough to be heard even when audio amp Mute is removed. The sound is not present if recording is Paused, so I am thinking it might be the HDD read/write head positioning mechanism.

Question:

Is this level of sound "normal" for a Topfield when recording?

IRD details are:

System ID 1426

Loader L4.08

Device Version V5.2.74

Application version TF . NNPTA 5.12.12

Last update Oct 05 2005

Interested in opinions of other Topfield owners.

Thanks for your time,

RK

[SimonB1503560073]

It's not uncommon if you're recording something and 'chase play' is operating on the current channel. I've had my Topyp for too long to remember how to enable or disable timeshifting, but do some searches on the forums and you should find info on it. In short, it's normal in some circumstances and you get used to it.

It also used to be a problem with ImproBox a long time ago, but that's been fixed.

Welcome to the club!

Simon....

[wfdTamar]

I got a refurbished Masterpiece direct from Topfield and it has quite loud drive noise (which is what the sound is). I also have a standard 5000 which has no noise (or very little), so I was surprised and dissapointed at the racket from the Masterpiece.

[pgdownload]

It might be vibration with the case. Try pressing down on the top of the case and seeing if the noise becomes more 'muted' - and no you normally shouldn't be able to hear the drive over the TV sound. Check out the install a new drive FAQ on the Topfield site if you want to wack in a 250G new drive.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[wfdTamar]

In my case it's definitely the drive heads. No amount of pressing does anything. It's just a very loud drive. In the plain 5000 I have they use a drive made for PVR's, maybe with the Masterpiece they just used a normal desktop PC type drive, or there is something about the Masterpiece design which accentuates a noisy drive. I only got the MP for its bigger 160Gb drive (the 5000 was an 80Gb one). All the other differences the MP has over the plain 5000 I find annoying (the silly front display, the remote design & layout). But it was only $523.

[I am Murphy]

In my case it's definitely the drive heads. No amount of pressing does anything. It's just a very loud drive. In the plain 5000 I have they use a drive made for PVR's, maybe with the Masterpiece they just used a normal desktop PC type drive, or there is something about the Masterpiece design which accentuates a noisy drive. I only got the MP for its bigger 160Gb drive (the 5000 was an 80Gb one). All the other differences the MP has over the plain 5000 I find annoying (the silly front display, the remote design & layout). But it was only $523.

Confirmed - it is head movement for certain. I have entered Menu and disabled TimeShift feature. The racket has stopped. I will take it up with Topfield HQ tomorrow. The unit has been in use for only one day and that level of sound has to be abnormal for the intended purpose. If you have ever lived near a QLD rainforest and heard bush cockroaches scuttling around at night, then you have an idea of the sound I hear.

At the risk of going off-topic in my own thread - picture quality improvement. Currently, I have the Toppy supplied SCART to RCA cable assembly plugged into a Component input on my plasma screen. The Toppy video is set to produce YUV. I get better picture quality on this panel from other input sources that have component out. So, I am wondering if the HANTREX SCART YUV to Component convertor box as good as it is claimed? (I have an uncommitted RGB DB15 but that needs PC Monitor frequencies of 31Khz or more).

I will be interested in feedback from any owners of the Hantrex convertor.

Thank you,

RK

[wfdTamar]

The YUV output on the Masterpiece is not very good - over saturated reds. The CYP (which is sold by Hantrex and others) does correct this - I have one. The similar unit made by a Topfield forum member is supposed to be even better. Do a search for this issue there as it was covered recently.

[pgdownload]

I have this unit and yes the PQ is excellent. They have a 14 day trial money back guarantee so you can always give a whirl and see. FWIW there's a guy on the Topfield forum that produces a custom version (about the same price) that is apparently another step up again. Details in this thread:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=45274

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[I am Murphy]

The YUV output on the Masterpiece is not very good - over saturated reds. The CYP (which is sold by Hantrex and others) does correct this - I have one. The similar unit made by a Topfield forum member is supposed to be even better. Do a search for this issue there as it was covered recently.

Appreciate the quick responses. Heading over to Topfield forum for a search around.

Thanks,

RK

[Snake1503559538]

Getting back to the topic, I have a brand new 5000MP and the HDD reading and the shifting of the reading mechanism from one place on the drive to another is very noisy. Almost as loud as what comes out of the TV speakers!

Another thread I read suggested that a HDDInfo.tap has an HDD Accoustic Management function which will fix the problem. Well, I have loaded this TAP onto my machine but can't find any option referring to anything "accoustic".

I will keep looking unless someone out there has used this TAP to fix a noisy hard drive and can point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Phil

[WINEDS]

Take it up with Topfield. Get them to fix it or give you your money back. Don't let them get away with it.

[wfdTamar]

You mean the way they have fixed the component out bug on early models and the overly saturated YUV out? :-) Why is it that any tin pot $50 DVD player can do that, but the $1000 Topfield couldn't get it right? Despite the other good aspects of their products they deserve to have someone take this market from them. Unfortunately even the big boys (Sony, et al) can't seem to do it right.

[WINEDS]

You mean the way they have fixed the component out bug on early models and the overly saturated YUV out? :-) Why is it that any tin pot $50 DVD player can do that, but the $1000 Topfield couldn't get it right? Despite the other good aspects of their products they deserve to have someone take this market from them. Unfortunately even the big boys (Sony, et al) can't seem to do it right.

Spot on! You are right, they got out of jail with the component bug. One of the main reasons they got away with it is because too many people on this forum stick up for them for some strange reason. I can't imagine why

[pgdownload]

Take it up with Topfield. Get them to fix it or give you your money back. Don't let them get away with it.

Wineds, you seem to advocate approaching a simple waranty issue wth all guns blazing? No one's 'getting away' with anything. A few drives (in any PVR) can be noisey, take it back to the retailer (or Topfield direct) and it will get replaced. Similarly, Topfield have acknowledged that the component output of their PVRs is not up to scratch on some boxes. If a purchaser feels this is unacceptable they will have their money refunded without issue.

Not every company is out to swindle the customer every chance they get

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[WINEDS]

Wineds, you seem to advocate approaching a simple waranty issue wth all guns blazing? No one's 'getting away' with anything. A few drives (in any PVR) can be noisey, take it back to the retailer (or Topfield direct) and it will get replaced. Similarly, Topfield have acknowledged that the component output of their PVRs is not up to scratch on some boxes. If a purchaser feels this is unacceptable they will have their money refunded without issue.

Not every company is out to swindle the customer every chance they get

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Hi Peter,

Given that they have acknowledged the component problem are they going to fix it? What is the status? At one stage there was talk of a firmware fix but so far this has not eventuated.

Cheers,

Paul

[pgdownload]

Hi Peter, Given that they have acknowledged the component problem are they going to fix it? What is the status? At one stage there was talk of a firmware fix but so far this has not eventuated. Cheers, Paul

Dissapointingly, the mention of a firmware fix seems to have dissapeared. I was surprised that the issue might be firmware (as opposed to hardware) related, but for whatever reason Topfield have not been able to rectify this issue. Topfield wuold seem to be throwing all resources at the 7000 now so I'm not hopefull of any firmware for the SD Toppy's any time soon. As mentioned Topfield seem to have reasoned the issue

a) Doesn't many TV/Toppy setups

It can often be obviated by adjusting the users TV colour settings (less than ideal).

c) Users can also use other outputs that don't have the colour issues

d) Users can purchase a $120 unit that will fix the problem.

None of these are very optimal solutions and if Topfield insisted that they were I'd be annoyed too. However Topfield appear to have decided its more cost effective to acknowledge the fault and leave it up to users if they can live with it or if they want to return the PVR for a refund.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[WINEDS]

Dissapointingly, the mention of a firmware fix seems to have dissapeared. I was surprised that the issue might be firmware (as opposed to hardware) related, but for whatever reason Topfield have not been able to rectify this issue. Topfield wuold seem to be throwing all resources at the 7000 now so I'm not hopefull of any firmware for the SD Toppy's any time soon. As mentioned Topfield seem to have reasoned the issue

a) Doesn't many TV/Toppy setups

cool.gif It can often be obviated by adjusting the users TV colour settings (less than ideal).

c) Users can also use other outputs that don't have the colour issues

d) Users can purchase a $120 unit that will fix the problem.

None of these are very optimal solutions and if Topfield insisted that they were I'd be annoyed too. However Topfield appear to have decided its more cost effective to acknowledge the fault and leave it up to users if they can live with it or if they want to return the PVR for a refund.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Dear Peter,

Thanks for the reply. To follow up :

a). I think it affects a lot more setups that you may think. A lot of people are blissfully unaware of teh problem I believe.

. Perhaps, in some cases but not all. But what if you want to use the scart passthru and feed it with a conventional component output.

c). The only really decent output that doesn't have this problem is S video which is hardly satisfactory with a >= 42 inch plasma or projector?

d). That (Hantrex) converter doesn't really work very well at all. A better implementation is available from SRTO2. In, any case why should someone have to spend more money to fix something that should have been right in the first place?

So, you are right; the workarounds/suggestions are hardly satisfactory. Reading between the lines you seem to have an "inside" connection to Topfield? Are you saying they would be prepared to offer me a full refund on my 2 year old Topfield 5000?

Cheers,

Paul

[tonymy01]

I believe the issue with the component out is the SCART-handling IC (that does the passthrough etc) can't cope too well, as SCART was never designed for YUV. Topfield solved this by creating the 6K, which has direct YUV out, bypassing the SCART IC in the output (I am sure). In fact, if you are a wizz with a soldering iron, I reckon perfect YUV on the 5K is a possiblity without putting an external device on the Toppy by simply taking the R,G,B *inputs* to the SCART IC to RCAs (may need buffering for protection, although my DVD player certainly doesn't!).

So basically:

The Toppy MPEG decoder is completely capable of YUV (hence the inclusion of the menu option) but the scart-passthrough IC with its 3-9dB gains on the R,G,B legs (which carry YUV in YUV mode) obviously screw the signal, phase etc when passing YUV through, depending on the input range on the TV and adjustability on the TV.

Honestly, svideo and YUV is very very little difference. Svideo is also called "Y/C" and the Y in svideo is exactly the same as the Y in YUV. The Y is the luminance of the signal, and where all the resolution in an image is stored. The "C" chrominance is combined together for svideo, but seperate for YUV, and the difference is extremely subtle between these two standards!

If you try and take Topfield to task for the YUV output of the 5K, they will simply disable the YUV option for future upgrades, and this is something we don't want them to do!

Regards

[WINEDS]

believe the issue with the component out is the SCART-handling IC (that does the passthrough etc) can't cope too well, as SCART was never designed for YUV. Topfield solved this by creating the 6K, which has direct YUV out, bypassing the SCART IC in the output (I am sure). In fact, if you are a wizz with a soldering iron, I reckon perfect YUV on the 5K is a possiblity without putting an external device on the Toppy by simply taking the R,G,B *inputs* to the SCART IC to RCAs (may need buffering for protection, although my DVD player certainly doesn't!).

So basically:

The Toppy MPEG decoder is completely capable of YUV (hence the inclusion of the menu option) but the scart-passthrough IC with its 3-9dB gains on the R,G,B legs (which carry YUV in YUV mode) obviously screw the signal, phase etc when passing YUV through, depending on the input range on the TV and adjustability on the TV.

Honestly, svideo and YUV is very very little difference. Svideo is also called "Y/C" and the Y in svideo is exactly the same as the Y in YUV. The Y is the luminance of the signal, and where all the resolution in an image is stored. The "C" chrominance is combined together for svideo, but seperate for YUV, and the difference is extremely subtle between these two standards!

If you try and take Topfield to task for the YUV output of the 5K, they will simply disable the YUV option for future upgrades, and this is something we don't want them to do!

Regards

Tony, excellent post. Is the gain of the SCART switcher IC programmable? If so, maybe the problem could be fixed in firmware? With all due respect I really feel duded by this. And I don't think I am the only one. I just had a look at the 5000PVRT page on the Topfield website and the specs still claim a YUV output

[pgdownload]

a). I think it affects a lot more setups that you may think. A lot of people are blissfully unaware of teh problem I believe.

Agreed, But a lot of people are probably using composite connections and watching lots of 'thin people' in 4:3 mode (blissful being the operative term ). To be honest I have no real idea how many units are 'seriously' affected - I only get to helpout here.

. Perhaps, in some cases but not all. But what if you want to use the scart passthru and feed it with a conventional component output.

Outside my expertise. But 'pass through' suggests you could always 'bypass' the Toppy if its a real issue?

c). The only really decent output that doesn't have this problem is S video which is hardly satisfactory with a >= 42 inch plasma or projector?

As Tony mentions SVideo and Component are closer than many consider. That said I still reckon YUV looks 'better' than Svideo (but not by an enormous amount). Going above 42" pretty much starts making any SD look 'iffy' IMO.

d). That (Hantrex) converter doesn't really work very well at all. A better implementation is available from SRTO2. In, any case why should someone have to spend more money to fix something that should have been right in the first place?

Have you actually viewed each converter? Agreed from postings they sound like chalk and cheese but in practice I find the Hantrex convertor produces crystal clear YUV/RGB images with no discernable artifacts. I have no doubt stos is 'better' but we are also getting into the 96% v 98% comparisons that forums are to often want to indulge (again IMO.)

e) Reading between the lines you seem to have an "inside" connection to Topfield? Are you saying they would be prepared to offer me a full refund on my 2 year old Topfield 5000?

'Inside' is probably too strong a word. I have spent a lot of time on the Toppy forum and occasionally chat informally with Toppy staff, although lately I suspect my comments on the 7000 has sort of put me on the outer with them . I'm afraid if its taken two years to work out thata certain 'feature' on a purchase should have been otherwise, very few manufacturers are going to concur

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[WINEDS]

Have you actually viewed each converter? Agreed from postings they sound like chalk and cheese but in practice I find the Hantrex convertor produces crystal clear YUV/RGB images with no discernable artifacts. I have no doubt stos is 'better' but we are also getting into the 96% v 98% comparisons that forums are to often want to indulge (again IMO.)

Yes Peter, I have both converters. You are welcome to come and see for yourself. Do you really think that someone would have expended extensive engineering effort to design an alternative if a satisfactory solution already existed?

[pgdownload]

Neat. I have a v. good HD 36" CRT so possibly that is more forgiving on these boxes than a 42"+ panel? I can't fault my SD PQ but until you run a comparison like you can side by side, its extremely hard to compare PQ on different boxes. 'Satisfactory' is always in the eye of the beholder and obvously you and sto have demanding (discerning ) requirements. I have no doubt sto's box is superior and at the same approx price recommend it. However I personally suspect I'd have difficulty pointing out large image defects in the Hantrex etc.

I'm happy in my ignorance to be honest as if i did do a comparison, no doubt I'd start being annoyed every time I turned on my expensive TV.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[I am Murphy]

Getting back to the topic, I have a brand new 5000MP and the HDD reading and the shifting of the reading mechanism from one place on the drive to another is very noisy. Almost as loud as what comes out of the TV speakers!

Another thread I read suggested that a HDDInfo.tap has an HDD Accoustic Management function which will fix the problem. Well, I have loaded this TAP onto my machine but can't find any option referring to anything "accoustic".

I will keep looking unless someone out there has used this TAP to fix a noisy hard drive and can point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Phil

Hi Snake,

If the Topfield techs are correct, the HDDInfo.tap will never work with that drive. I have just spoken with Topfield Australia wrt to the 5000PVRt MP Black that I purchased last Saturday. I can hear the head mechanism ticking during recording, and I am seated 3.6 metres away. I was told the HDD in this model Topfield is a Seagate that does not have acoustic management.

I was notified to take it back to the retailer for an exchange, and failing their co-operation, to contact Topfield Australia again for resolution.

It is time for both of us to take action.

Good luck,

RK

[dvduser]

HDD ticking sound

When it stops ticking, you'd better run like hell

[WINEDS]

You mean the way they have fixed the component out bug on early models and the overly saturated YUV out? :-) Why is it that any tin pot $50 DVD player can do that, but the $1000 Topfield couldn't get it right? Despite the other good aspects of their products they deserve to have someone take this market from them. Unfortunately even the big boys (Sony, et al) can't seem to do it right.

Peter, I don't think I am overly discerning. Please see quoted post above from earlier in this thread. Not my words!

Cheers,

Paul