Current Blu-ray Players Obsolete By The End Of 2007

[franin]

read this:

Current Blu-ray players will be rendered obsolete by the end of the year. The Blu-ray disc association, in an effort to realize the hitherto unseen potential of the format, has mandated that all BD players going on sale after October 31 must offer fully-functioning BD Java, in order to deliver PIP interactivity. Frustration comes from the fact that BD releases have failed to compare to current generation HD DVD discs. The inability of Blu-ray players to run BD Java and go online with BD Live is frustrating studios eager to build next generation functionality into their products. Unfortunately, this attempt to effectively finalize the format may be coming to late for the format’s early adopters. Currently, even the PlayStation 3 is unable to offer PIP via BD Java and no standard alone designs have the ability to go online with BD Live.

First generation players can have their firmware updated via disc; however such updates alone may not be enough to maintain hardware compatibility with advanced PIP platters. Machines need a minimum of 256MB of persistent memory storage to run the feature. Players with an Ethernet connection for online interactivity are required to have 1GB of memory, to store and buffer downloaded content.

The link:

http://avzombie.com/blog/2007/03/26/curren...he-end-of-2007/

A mate of mine already told me that sony is in production of there second gen ps3 machines - again i cannot comment on that speculation.

[betty boop]

might explain why there si a definite dearth of blu-ray players on hte market apart from the early prototypes. bring on the 2nd gen models I say. otu with the old and in with ALL the new. from all those supposed blu-ray player makers !

[delarge]

A mate of mine already told me that sony is in production of there second gen ps3 machines - again i cannot comment on that speculation.

Yes, it's called the European model.............LOL!!!11!!!!!11!!

Sorry....

[Skid_MacMarx]

Currently, even the PlayStation 3 is unable to offer PIP via BD Java and no standard alone designs have the ability to go online with BD Live.

First generation players can have their firmware updated via disc; however such updates alone may not be enough to maintain hardware compatibility with advanced PIP platters.

http://avzombie.com/blog/2007/03/26/curren...he-end-of-2007/

...........

It appears PS3 will get PIP.....

5) You said earlier that PiP will be tested later in the summer using a dual video streaming using a PC software player. Would that mean that current BD players cannot do this? Could the PS3 do this with a firmware upgrade?

The PS3 can probably be updated, but as mentioned above, I am saying this without having concrete details. The current set top players will not do it, but they will still play the discs, just without the PiP feature

post#73

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4988&page=4

..

So is the PS3 fully capable and/or "Profile 1.1" compliant?

It is not profile 1.1 capable, at this time. I expect updates to achieve this later in the year.

post#261

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4988&page=14

[Tweet]

Pity those that have already bought into the format, they are surely Sony's best supporters and have done so to get the format off the tarmac.

Having spent their money on a product they thought to be as promised (on paper ) now only to find what they have bought into is incomplete.

I wonder if those out there that have just bought into the PS3 realize that they have been sold short ?

Sony was so determined to sell its format that it forgot its customers are indispensable.

C.M

[THX1979]

so are we saying that when my Sony blu ray player arrives from the states there is a possibilty that NO amount of firmware updates will allow me to watch certian futuure releases??

Hmmmmm.....there'll be a lot of unhappy campers

But really who gives a sh+t about lame ass PIP commentaries?? when I watch Batman Begins i really dont care about about christian Bale's view of how scary the batmobile was. Am i the only one here that would rather eat his own sh+t than watch Big Brother??

[franin]

so are we saying that when my Sony blu ray player arrives from the states there is a possibilty that NO amount of firmware updates will allow me to watch certian futuure releases??

Hmmmmm.....there'll be a lot of unhappy campers

But really who gives a sh+t about lame ass PIP commentaries?? when I watch Batman Begins i really dont care about about christian Bale's view of how scary the batmobile was. Am i the only one here that would rather eat his own sh+t than watch Big Brother??

mate im with you on that one! I have never watched commentaries,I have never put on disc 2 in the discs that come with it.I want to enjoy the movie.I don't give a rats arse on the other ****.

[Felix..]

I thought the PiP commentary for The Descent was quite good. But usually I'll have to really adore the movie to bother watching the "extras". There just aren't enough hours in a day.

[Julian L]

read this:

The link:

http://avzombie.com/blog/2007/03/26/curren...he-end-of-2007/

A mate of mine already told me that sony is in production of there second gen ps3 machines - again i cannot comment on that speculation.

I seriously doubt that the 1st gen players will be 'obsolete'. Sony is boasting that they'll be several million BD players in homes by the end of the year, and almost none will be 2nd Gen. If they want to lose the format war, well this is the way to go about it. Piss off your installed customer base to the extent that they ditch the format altogether and move across to HD DVD.

1st gen players may not be able to play picture in picture commentaries, which means the dozen or so titles that will have this feature won't play PIP, although the movie should play fine. And, frankly, I couldn't care less about PIP commentaries or features. The Batman Begins PIP commentary was a pain to watch and I have no deire to revist this feature.

[Muzzer]

It looks like this thread is pretty well proven wrong.

Check out this news release from the Blu-ray Association:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/06/bluray/index.php

[Skid_MacMarx]

Current Blu-ray players won’t be able to play an on-demand picture-in-picture commentary, for example, that may come on a disc a year from now. Nor will they be able to connect to the Internet for future interactive functions that may be incorporated into the disc. But when that happens, Hollywood studio technologists have explained to me, they will likely program the disc in such a way that—if your player can’t support the new feature—the option won’t even show as available during playback.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/06/bluray/index.php

It appears most contributors are more concern with the actual quality of the picture and sound (ie resolution) than interactive features.

[momaw]

It looks like this thread is pretty well proven wrong.

Check out this news release from the Blu-ray Association:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/06/bluray/index.php

Guess you didn't read the whole article. It does state that current players will not be able to do any features that are a requirement of the "full spec". This will include any of the "enhanced" features which will be intricately linked into the film stream itself.

If the assertion that all current bu-ray player are fully BDJ compliant made in the article is true, then why is Warners refusing to release titles such as the matrix trilogy until the players have the hardware they believe is necessary?

This is nothing more than an attempt at damage control. They know that if the buying public knew the full extent to which current players will be "obsolete", then *no* players would sell between now and October.

[momaw]

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/06/bluray/index.php

It appears most contributors are more concern with the actual quality of the picture and sound (ie resolution) than interactive features.

That's the issue which early adopters will only discover when "enhanced" disc start reaching the market. How much will the "enhanced" features impact on current players ability to playback even the film itself? Even the BDA doesn't know the answer to this as the spec has not been released in any players and so far no discs have been authored to take advantage of it. It could be a storm in a teacup, it could turn any existing player into a White Elephant.

[AndrewW]

But when that happens, Hollywood studio technologists have explained to me, they will likely program the disc in such a way that—if your player can’t support the new feature—the option won’t even show as available during playback.

Ah cool.

So we'll just hide the fact from the consumers that their player is unable to playback the advanced features.

Yeah this thread is definitely proven to be false

Andrew.

[betty boop]

well I for one wont be buying a blu-ray player till they have the spec sorted out. blu-ray was rushed to the market. thats pretty clear. theyre jsut in catch up since.

[momaw]

Ah cool.

So we'll just hide the fact from the consumers that their player is unable to playback the advanced features.

Yeah this thread is definitely proven to be false

Andrew.

This will make it interesting when consumers bring the discs back to the store and say the feature on the back of the box doesn't work/isn't there and then the store clerk tries it in the store machine and says "see, there it is" and, well, you get the picture.

It is also a big assumption that all the flags and reprocessing done, won't effect non-compatible machines ability to playback the material.

[ajm1503559545]

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/06/bluray/index.php

It appears most contributors are more concern with the actual quality of the picture and sound (ie resolution) than interactive features.

I did wonder if your poll on this very subject was just a subtle way to make this point. I will wonder no more .

[Maverick]

deleted comment

[djOS]

This will make it interesting when consumers bring the discs back to the store and say the feature on the back of the box doesn't work/isn't there and then the store clerk tries it in the store machine and says "see, there it is" and, well, you get the picture.

It is also a big assumption that all the flags and reprocessing done, won't effect non-compatible machines ability to playback the material.

Both the BluRay and HD DVD camps have released discs that wont work on early FW revisions due to the BDj & HDi versions required to play them; so imo the precedent has been set - at least in HD DVD's case all players have everything they need to conform to newer revisions via a simple FW update.

[momaw]

Both the BluRay and HD DVD camps have released discs that wont work on early FW revisions due to the BDj & HDi versions required to play them; so imo the precedent has been set - at least in HD DVD's case all players have everything they need to conform to newer revisions via a simple FW update.

Not working on an earlier Firmware revision is a tad more easy to fix than not working on an earlier hardware revision

[AndrewW]

Not working on an earlier Firmware revision is a tad more easy to fix than not working on an earlier hardware revision

you beat me to it mo

edit: not to mention that in this case there is full disclosure inside the case, and instructions on how to fix it (easily, and for free).

Andrew.

[RabidWolve]

Cell and the RSX in the PS3 handle all the Blu-Ray playback.

Next version of the ps3 will be the same 2 components only shrunk down. Firmware update should add those features.

[Skid_MacMarx]

I agree with the general tenet in that if I outlayed $2k and would not be able to access the "additional interactive features" I would be pissed off. Especially, now because there was a time when the "early adopter" could off load "last years" model for the latest and not lose too heavily. But now when the latest players not only have more "features," they are considerably cheaper, which was not always the case. Then again, money is not an object to the true enthusiast .. I remember outlaying thousands of dollars on cartridges, tonearms, phono pre-amps etc. Constantly upgrading...

Although I actually feel the title is a bit over the top in that if early adopters do hold on to these players, they will still be able to watch the film in the same resolution .. in the same way...as they experience them now..

But when that happens, Hollywood studio technologists have explained to me, they will likely program the disc in such a way that—if your player can’t support the new feature—the option won’t even show as available during playback.

Yes I read the whole article. momaw, although I only quoted this bit because you previously stated there may be problems with the playback of the actual film, if a player was not capable of reading the additional feature streams or hooked up to the internet.

I see this statement as a positive thing considering our past conversations on the subject. I thought it would have "eased" your mind.

Then again, considering you said that you're an enthusiast, I'm sure you wouldn't hold on to the equipment for that long...

Guess you didn't read the whole article. It does state that current players will not be able to do any features that are a requirement of the "full spec". This will include any of the "enhanced" features which will be intricately linked into the film stream itself.

If the assertion that all current bu-ray player are fully BDJ compliant made in the article is true, then why is Warners refusing to release titles such as the matrix trilogy until the players have the hardware they believe is necessary?

I suppose its how you and I "interpret" full spec....

Have you got a url reference where Warner officially announced this .. I'm not doubting that they have issued such a statement.. just want to send a reference to an "insider" regarding the statement thanks

the beauty of this equipment is it can be dramatically improved with software updates.... when do they start charging for that

It could be a storm in a teacup,.

Well this is how I see all this .. by the time the majority of titles have all these new features (bearing in mind, the studios at this time have not officially announced the nature of all these new features.. it appears to be a work that will always be in progress) I dare say the players on the market will be much cheaper and have the appropriate firmware and hardware.

Then again, alebonau, I'm surprised you have joined the "bandwagon" (ie expecting Sony to produce all the goods immediately) Like I said before, and I think you may have misinterpreted me, there were many smaller firms manufacturing "better quality" CD players for a long time after Soiny/Philips introduced the CD, and it wasn't until the ES range in the 90s that I thought they (Sony) were in the same league of some of these smaller manufacturers. The same goes with SACDs, its the smaller producers in most cases, especially in the west, offerring a higher quality product. The majors are not interested.

Maybe this why I don't have such expectations (I don't know if thats the correct word but I hope you know what I mean) for Sony to deliver the "goods."

I'm hoping the likes of Denon and Meridan will fill this niche

There is no doubt, from even momaw's previous posts to ChrisMJT that "resolution" is a higher priority at this stage.

[betty boop]

~

Then again, alebonau, I'm surprised you have joined the "bandwagon" (ie expecting Sony to produce all the goods immediately) Like I said before, and I think you may have misinterpreted me, there were many smaller firms manufacturing "better quality" CD players for a long time after Soiny/Philips introduced the CD, and it wasn't until the ES range in the 90s that I thought they (Sony) were in the same league of some of these smaller manufacturers. The same goes with SACDs, its the smaller producers in most cases, especially in the west, offerring a higher quality product. The majors are not interested.

Maybe this why I don't have such expectations (I don't know if thats the correct word but I hope you know what I mean) for Sony to deliver the "goods."

I'm hoping the likes of Denon and Meridan will fill this niche

There is no doubt, from even momaw's previous posts to ChrisMJT that "resolution" is a higher priority at this stage.

band wagon FFS !

all I want is a fully featured blu-ray player not one of hte over priced half bakes out right now. is that too much to ask ?

and please do I have to pull out the sony history link for you yet again ? come on skid we had that sony ES dicussion once before if you remember and I proved you wrong.

OK once more but please dont make me have to qoute yet again.

http://products.sel.sony.com/es/history/es_timelines.html

1985 - Worlds First CD Player with Outboard D/A Converter

The CDP-650ES provided the first digital output - for connection to the DAS-702ES converter.

and sony for your information have put out probably the best SACD players ever made and they were actually very early in leading the charge.

come on skid !

and please its my money. I'll part with it when I want. and at present there is nothing in blu-ray I'd part my money on.

[momaw]

Sorry Skid, the "have you read the whole article" was squarely aimed at the op of the article whose statement didn't fit the entire article and it did say early as you quote "no probs" followed by a list of what won't work and how they will hide it from the buying public

Not a particularly well written piece of damage control to save sales of a probably useless machine until the one that works comes out (cynical - you betcha). And you have to admit from all the broken promises, I'll wait till the machines and titles hit the market and are found to be backwards compatible before my mind will be put at rest (how you {"you" being the collective society of PS2 owners upgrading to the PS3} doing with those 100% of PS2 titles being backwards compatible?). The boy who cried wolf comes to mind. Hence why I have settled for a PS3 until a satisfactory player actually see the light of day.

RE Matrix

Copy of Official Press release

now this is coy on the reason for the BD delay which was unofficially given (you can imagine they have to be diplomatic about these things in official press releases)

No Blu-ray version of either 'Matrix' set has been announced. However, Warner says it plans to release a comparable version later this year, once Blu-ray's much-touted BD-Java environment is finally ready for prime time.

source on that one

Now this is also discussed on quite a few other HD sites and also in the insiders section of AVS forum.

I trust this info is what you were looking for