Foggy Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I dropped into the Myer Sydney City store at lunchtime today, and my eye was drawn to a huge Panasonic 65" plasma display running a BluRay demo. The demo has a split screen showing what Standard DVD at 5.2Mbps supposedly looks like on the left hand side, and a 18Mbps BluRay 1080p transfer on the right hand side. I think the content was based on the movie Kingdom of Heaven, BUT.... There is no way that Standard DVD looks as soft and grainy as they had encoded it for this demo. There were people beside me going "WOW, isn't that an amazing difference" before I pointed them at some of the other display panels playing SD DVDs where the PQ was actually quite good. This scam is reminiscent of the infamous Monster Cable comparison where they show a composite feed from a competitor's cable (although using a component cable) compared to their own component cable using a component feed. Either Panasonic or Sony has mastered this demo DVD such that the SD side of the picture looks like it was taken from a VHS tape and converted to DVD. This is a complete scam, but I suspect that it's totally legitimate within the boundaries of our retail laws.
penguin Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Yeah i saw a scam like this at a JB store i think. It was just a general scenic loop running, but the so-called "dvd" image looked like something from a VHS. I'm surprised some people fall for it.
Craigus Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Keep in mind they are comparing NTSC resolution (480p) NOT PAL (576p). I've Jet Li's Fearless on HD-DVD (which has 480p DVD on the other side). On my 1080p display the difference between 1080p and 480p is significant and their demo is close to the mark. PAL is not as bad, but there is still a huge difference on my 46 " 1080p display when close up (i.e. 2m or so). I wouldn't say it is a scam in the "monster" category.
Gino Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I've seen this. I think they are trying to show the difference between 480 lines versus 1080 progressive etc... Obviously if you had a 1080p set, it wouldn't just show 480i, it would have scaling of its own. This is where this comparison is flawed. To me a better comparison would be to show identical 1080p televisions with DVD source vs BD source side by side
MELso Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I saw that exact demo of KoH. I think the problem is that this is 480i material encoded at 1080p without any scaling. Hence it looks super soft As we all know, the scalers in most tellies result in much nicer SD material than that...
mrplou Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 It's not just limited to Bluray. I saw the same thing happening in a toshiba hd-dvd demo in the states last year. Picture was of a european village and a cruise ship passing across the screen from 1080i to SD. A bit extreme but was a good example for a newb of what high def is all about.
betty boop Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I dropped into the Myer Sydney City store at lunchtime today, and my eye was drawn to a huge Panasonic 65" plasma display running a BluRay demo.The demo has a split screen showing what Standard DVD at 5.2Mbps supposedly looks like on the left hand side, and a 18Mbps BluRay 1080p transfer on the right hand side. I think the content was based on the movie Kingdom of Heaven, BUT.... There is no way that Standard DVD looks as soft and grainy as they had encoded it for this demo. There were people beside me going "WOW, isn't that an amazing difference" before I pointed them at some of the other display panels playing SD DVDs where the PQ was actually quite good. This scam is reminiscent of the infamous Monster Cable comparison where they show a composite feed from a competitor's cable (although using a component cable) compared to their own component cable using a component feed. Either Panasonic or Sony has mastered this demo DVD such that the SD side of the picture looks like it was taken from a VHS tape and converted to DVD. This is a complete scam, but I suspect that it's totally legitimate within the boundaries of our retail laws. lets face it this is from the blu-ray marketing machine what else do you expect ? I saw fast and furious region 1 NTSC 480p dvd on the dreamvision dream bee. It looked uterly gorgeous not the blurry mess they making DVD out to be ! I switched right off the propaganda straight after they said "enjoy 7.1 channels of lossless sound" ! in the pana promo ...I mean really do they have a honest bone in their body ? seriously there is not one blu-ray disc out there with 7.1 channels of lossless sound and there is quite likely never to be and yet they give the impression that buy into blu-ray and thats what you will enjoy ! Liars thats all they are !
Hydrology Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 lets face it this is from the blu-ray marketing machine what else do you expect ?I switched right off the propaganda straight after they said "enjoy 7.1 channels of lossless sound" ! I mean really do they have a honest bone in their body ? seriously there is not one blu-ray disc out there with 7.1 channels of lossless sound and there is quite likely never to be and yet they give the impression that buy into blu-ray and thats what you will enjoy ! Liars thats all they are ! Well I remember all the advertising done by the DVD Forum in the early days of that format, things like "cinema experience" etc. I dont ever remember watching a DVD at home and hearing some strangers mobile ring, or the fire alarm go off, or get chewing gum stuck to your arse while sitting down, or buying crap popcorn , or the queues to the carpark exit. Talk about ripped off!!!
-Bishop- Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Seen it, looked off to me as well, more like a VHS vs blu-ray...
MeWhoElse Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Best "demonstation" of old resolution versus HiDef, was that used by the Star Trek people comparing the difference between the old version of the original series with that of the HiDef versions. Not leaps and bounds, but noticable all the same.
nis200979 Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Keep in mind they are comparing NTSC resolution (480p) NOT PAL (576p).I've Jet Li's Fearless on HD-DVD (which has 480p DVD on the other side). On my 1080p display the difference between 1080p and 480p is significant and their demo is close to the mark. PAL is not as bad, but there is still a huge difference on my 46 " 1080p display when close up (i.e. 2m or so). I wouldn't say it is a scam in the "monster" category. Ever watched a standard DVD on say the LG 60PC1D, bad dvds look really bad, but good HDTV and BD look very good. Maybe it's doctered, butpeople need to realise that 65" is very big, and DVD (SD) doesn't look fantastic. BTW, With 65" to play with, why can't they show a comparo between VHS, VCD, DVD, HDTV, BD/HD-DVD. Now that would be a great instore demo.
Foggy Posted March 28, 2007 Author Posted March 28, 2007 Ever watched a standard DVD on say the LG 60PC1D, bad dvds look really bad, but good HDTV and BD look very good. Maybe it's doctered, butpeople need to realise that 65" is very big, and DVD (SD) doesn't look fantastic.BTW, With 65" to play with, why can't they show a comparo between VHS, VCD, DVD, HDTV, BD/HD-DVD. Now that would be a great instore demo. Normally, I'd agree nis, but this was really bad. It was the equivalent of when I plugged my old optus analog cable box into my plasma using a dodgy composite cable. :vomit: Even a 480i SD DVD will look a lot better than what this display was showing. I might see if I can "acquire" a copy of this demo loop for research purposes.
penguin Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Yeah i gotta agree with foggy on this. With the demo i saw the tv was only about 100 cm or so and the dvd clip looked awful!
franin Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 seriously there is not one blu-ray disc out there with 7.1 channels of lossless sound and there is quite likely never to be and yet they give the impression that buy into blu-ray and thats what you will enjoy ! Actually there is Alebonau The movie Crank come out 7.1 lossless sound.
nonny Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Yep... its a major scam but then its only marginally worse then stores showing nothing but "A Bugs Life" on all their plasma/lcd tvs. What I would like to see is a side by side comparison of SD DVD, Upscaled SD and then true HD. That would be the real naked eye test.
Gino Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Actually there is Alebonau The movie Crank come out 7.1 lossless sound. Are you certain? I thought I read somewhere it was 6.1 PCM ... I could be wrong though, I don't own BD
franin Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Are you certain? I thought I read somewhere it was 6.1 PCM ... I could be wrong though, I don't own BD Very certain.I own the copy and played through my Japanese ps3 and it was decoded 7.1 by the ps3.
betty boop Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Very certain.I own the copy and played through my Japanese ps3 and it was decoded 7.1 by the ps3. could jsut be the way its showing up. as per hi-def digest http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/crank.html Audio Formats English Uncompressed PCM 6.1 Surround English Dolby Digital Surround EX
franin Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 could jsut be the way its showing up.as per hi-def digest http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/crank.html Audio Formats English Uncompressed PCM 6.1 Surround English Dolby Digital Surround EX My amp has picked it up as 7.1 also, which was to my amazement as I thought there was nothing in 7.1 also.
roachy Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Apparantly the Japanese Blu ray of Ghost in the Shell: Inoocence (anime) movie has 7.1 PCM. See review here
neostars Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 Well well, I seen that demo at myers, when I had never seen a bluray movie b4. I was like WTF, DVDs dont look that bad. That bullsh*t. Well how things change. After purchasing my 1080p TV and PS3. Popping in a Underworld evolution - bluray and watching it to the end. My opinions did a U turn. If u neva watch a Bluray movie at night in front of a couch. Ur brain will hardly notice the different. But when u start watching a few bluray and then watch a standard DVD. U begin to realise how blurry DVDs are.
brodricj Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 Very certain.I own the copy and played through my Japanese ps3 and it was decoded 7.1 by the ps3. What do you mean by decoded 7.1 by the PS3, does the Jap version of PS3 have a set of 7.1 analogue outputs, or a bigger AV out donger with 7.1?
betty boop Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 What do you mean by decoded 7.1 by the PS3, does the Jap version of PS3 have a set of 7.1 analogue outputs, or a bigger AV out donger with 7.1? dont think ps3 has multichannel analog outs. think franin is feeding hdmi from the ps3 to his avr.
franin Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 What do you mean by decoded 7.1 by the PS3, does the Jap version of PS3 have a set of 7.1 analogue outputs, or a bigger AV out donger with 7.1? Whats happening is that the ps3 is connected to my amp via HDMI, when turning it on the amp is picking it up as multichannel 7.1.Playing other br movies it is decoded by the ps3 as 5.1 (multichannel 5.1 through the amp), but when playing the movie crank it actually is decoded by the player as 7.1.Even the osd shows it as being 7.1 as my amp does also.I also found out that only certain amps do it also.Cause I upgraded to the 'A' series it works,The Yamaha 2700 I heard can do it to.I only just found this out from one of the guys in the other forums.
cwt Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 Just to add a short list of amps that can take a 7.1 pcm hdmi signal[collated from lindahls list at avs forums] .Denon2307;2807;3806;4306;AVC A11;AVC A1. Yamaha 1700/2700. Pioneer avx a2/ a4.The info is gathered from manuals and service departments so its not like these have been actually tested[except for FRANIN'S]
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