Avr's That Decode Audio Through Hdmi

[Chesty]

As the titles suggests, after doing some research on AVR's i have had trouble working out which ones can decode all the audio codecs over HDMI, rather than having to connect digital or analogue connections as well.

Anyone have some suggestions on what is a good choice for around the $1500 to $2000 mark.

A couple of points:

1) I dont need any of the bells and whistles such as upscaling or multi zone etc. All feeds into and out will be via HDMI

2) It obviously needs to decode audio via HDMI and also 1080p video.

Just after something thats rock solid and not gimmicky.

As for what speakers it will go with is yet to be determined so general opinions will be ok. However i am looking at either Klipsch or Sonique's.

I was looking at the Cambridge Audio 640R before i realised that it does not decode audio via HDMI (wtf?)

Thoughts....?

[Gino]

when you say all the audio codecs you are also referring to DD+, TrueHD and DTS-HD?

[brett134]

As the titles suggests, after doing some research on AVR's i have had trouble working out which ones can decode all the audio codecs over HDMI, rather than having to connect digital or analogue connections as well.

Anyone have some suggestions on what is a good choice for around the $1500 to $2000 mark.

A couple of points:

1) I dont need any of the bells and whistles such as upscaling or multi zone etc. All feeds into and out will be via HDMI

2) It obviously needs to decode audio via HDMI and also 1080p video.

Just after something thats rock solid and not gimmicky.

As for what speakers it will go with is yet to be determined so general opinions will be ok. However i am looking at either Klipsch or Sonique's.

I was looking at the Cambridge Audio 640R before i realised that it does not decode audio via HDMI (wtf?)

Thoughts....?

The yamaha RX-V2700 and RX-V1700 does what your looking for in decoding audio through HDMI and has 1080p passthrough for video.

Some AVR's only do video through HDMI and don't support audio, which sounds like the case with the Cambridge you mentioned.

I along with a few people on this board own the RX-V2700 and can't fault it. It has 3 Hdmi inputs and component/S-video/composite upconversion (even though you mentioned you don't need this fucntion). you should be able to pick this unit up within your price range.

The RX-V1700 is a little cheaper in price but only has 2 HDMI inputs, but this will suit your needs if you don't need anymore than that.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

[Cody]

unfortunately its the "bells and whistles" manufacturers that are leading the way with HDMI implementation, so your pretty much going to get those regardless. the only exception i can immediately think of is probably the HK 645

some good pics within that price range -

- Pioneer VSX-AX2ASS (can be had for around $1300-$1400 new)

- Pioneer VSX-AX4ASiS (around $1700-$1800)

- Sony 3200ES (about $1500)

- Sony 5200ES (about $1800-$1900)

- Yamaha 1700 & 2700 as mentioned above

- Denon 2807

- Harman Kardon 645

the pioneers are good, but a bit lacking on the power front, especially with all 7 channels running. they really suit good satellites imo or speakers with high sensitivity.

the sonys seem to review well, although stay away from the 1200ES and below as they dont decode the audio

the yamaha's seem to be a bit of a favourite around here, lots of happy customers

the denon 2807 would be a good pick, probably a cut above the pioneer/sony etc

the HK looks good on paper and Al speaks very highly of HK (particularly on the power front), but i havent heard anything about the 645 in terms of user feedback, probably as its a very new model (around Dec)

marantz is also usually worth a look and their new range has HDMI with audio (at least for the higher models) on board. dont know much about these myself though.

certainly a bit of choice out there..

as always, best to let your ears decide, but personally my short list would be:

Pioneer AX4, Sony 5200, Yamaha 2700, HK 645 and if i could stretch the budget a little further, the Denon 3806 (although the HK and Denon only have 2 HDMI inputs, which is a bit limited imo. the sony and yamaha have 3 and the pioneer 4)

[Chesty]

unfortunately its the "bells and whistles" manufacturers that are leading the way with HDMI implementation, so your pretty much going to get those regardless. the only exception i can immediately think of is probably the HK 645

some good pics within that price range -

- Pioneer VSX-AX2ASS (can be had for around $1300-$1400 new)

- Pioneer VSX-AX4ASiS (around $1700-$1800)

- Sony 3200ES (about $1500)

- Sony 5200ES (about $1800-$1900)

- Yamaha 1700 & 2700 as mentioned above

- Denon 2807

- Harman Kardon 645

the pioneers are good, but a bit lacking on the power front, especially with all 7 channels running. they really suit good satellites imo or speakers with high sensitivity.

the sonys seem to review well, although stay away from the 1200ES and below as they dont decode the audio

the yamaha's seem to be a bit of a favourite around here, lots of happy customers

the denon 2807 would be a good pick, probably a cut above the pioneer/sony etc

the HK looks good on paper and Al speaks very highly of HK (particularly on the power front), but i havent heard anything about the 645 in terms of user feedback, probably as its a very new model (around Dec)

marantz is also usually worth a look and their new range has HDMI with audio (at least for the higher models) on board. dont know much about these myself though.

certainly a bit of choice out there..

as always, best to let your ears decide, but personally my short list would be:

Pioneer AX4, Sony 5200, Yamaha 2700, HK 645 and if i could stretch the budget a little further, the Denon 3806 (although the HK and Denon only have 2 HDMI inputs, which is a bit limited imo. the sony and yamaha have 3 and the pioneer 4)

Thanks heaps guys. Its just that i have found obtaining which AVR's can decode audio through HDMI quite difficult. Even specialist hi fi stores are giving the wrong info, let alone your reg department stores.

Thanks for the choices DG. I will do some research on the models you mentioned.

[kodaz]

I would wait as HDMI is still largly up in the air and with 1.3 on the horizon it isn't likely to be in the the more boutique gear (ie not Denon, Yamaha, et al) for a while. As such look at a good iterim solution that can send the video via HDMI so then the One Cable solution can be rolled out to the projector/plasma/lcd and the audio side can be sorted at a later date.

[big_marcelo]

I'm waiting for the next yamaha (2800?) which can decode hi-rez audio and has good passthrough on the video side of things .... no point of upgrading (unless you really need to right now) until 1.3 HDMI & hi-rez audio is sorted out

[AndrewW]

Chesty,

You should have got in on the 2700B group buy mate

Well within your price range, and all the features you are after ...

Andrew.

[Cody]

Thanks heaps guys. Its just that i have found obtaining which AVR's can decode audio through HDMI quite difficult. Even specialist hi fi stores are giving the wrong info, let alone your reg department stores.

Thanks for the choices DG. I will do some research on the models you mentioned.

it is a bit of a minefield at the moment, and you cant unforunately count on the fact that an AVR has version v1.x etc as the manufacturer may not have implemented all the features of that HDMI version. throw in that some can only handle 5.1 channels of PCM, some that dont boost the LFE correctly, some that have handshake/HDCP problems etc etc and it really is a bit of a mess.

if i was to stray off the common path (sony, pioneer, yammy etc) i'd definately take my HD-DVD player/PS3/BR player/whatever in and do a demo to make sure it works.

I would wait as HDMI is still largly up in the air and with 1.3 on the horizon it isn't likely to be in the the more boutique gear (ie not Denon, Yamaha, et al) for a while. As such look at a good iterim solution that can send the video via HDMI so then the One Cable solution can be rolled out to the projector/plasma/lcd and the audio side can be sorted at a later date.

i dont agree at all regarding waiting for HDMI 1.3 (unless you have no burning need to upgrade at all at the moment), but dont want to sound like a broken record so will leave it at that.

of course the problem with the AVR's that do only pass the video is if you want to use 2 or more sources that require 7.1 or 5.1 analogue, you stuffed (or at least stuck with a lesser quality sound). eg, HD-DVD player + Blu-Ray player + SACD/DVD-A player. and of course if you plan to get a PS3 , your stuck with optical

[cwt]

Chesty; just to add one more to DG's well thought out list is the onkyo tx sr804.Although it only has 2 hdmi ver1.1 inputs;It also has a 8 channel analog input so can take 3 hi def players .I only mention it because it transcodes analog signals to hdmi and doesnt do any half baked upscaling.It has a solid power supply 200 watts/ch x 8 into 6 ohms [less into 8] if I recall.

Being a THX select2 model means its been independently tested for all sorts of performance parameters[even if you dont like the thx movie mode] .It also has a thx games mode thats great with 5.1 360 games

[Chesty]

Chesty,

You should have got in on the 2700B group buy mate

Well within your price range, and all the features you are after ...

Andrew.

Yeah i know Andrew. I thought about it but was not entirely ready to commit at that point. I am going to OS next month and when i get back is when i will be buying.

I hear those saying to wait for 1.3 but not sure its worth waiting for. It will be pricey when it first comes out for a while and by that point there will probably be something else that is coming along.

The AVR's around at the moment will be more than suffice for me and will offer long term enjoyment.

[Chesty]

Chesty; just to add one more to DG's well thought out list is the onkyo tx sr804.Although it only has 2 hdmi ver1.1 inputs;It also has a 8 channel analog input so can take 3 hi def players .I only mention it because it transcodes analog signals to hdmi and doesnt do any half baked upscaling.It has a solid power supply 200 watts/ch x 8 into 6 ohms [less into 8] if I recall.

Being a THX select2 model means its been independently tested for all sorts of performance parameters[even if you dont like the thx movie mode] .It also has a thx games mode thats great with 5.1 360 games

Thanks CWT. I was actually looking at its younger brother before i realised no go on decoding HD audio codecs via hdmi. Will consider....

[AndrewW]

I hear those saying to wait for 1.3 but not sure its worth waiting for. It will be pricey when it first comes out for a while and by that point there will probably be something else that is coming along.

The AVR's around at the moment will be more than suffice for me and will offer long term enjoyment.

This was my reasoning for picking up the 2700B.

OK, sure in 6 months I might be able to pick up a receiver with 1.3 that might be able to decode some of the HD audio formats, but it would have cost me twice what I paid for the 2700B, and I would have had to wait another 6 months ...

Andrew.

[Cody]

by that point there will probably be something else that is coming along.

now theres something about HDMI 1.3 that you can bank on!

[Chesty]

now theres something about HDMI 1.3 that you can bank on!

I am leaning towards the Pio AX2 or AX4. They both seem to be getting good reviews

[cwt]

Thanks CWT. I was actually looking at its younger brother before i realised no go on decoding HD audio codecs via hdmi. Will consider....

Thats what had me scratching my head Chesty; the 674 [model below] does true hd/dd+/dts hd pcm no problems if decoded in your player.Unlike the dearer denons it cant lay say pl11x on the pcm to give 7.1 from a 5.1 signal [if that matters].It gains auddesey room correction over the 804 but looses 8 ch pre outs.

[RodN]

I would stick with the receiver you have at this point in time. The receivers you are talking about don't decode the new formats and they don't have very good bass management systems for the analog inputs. Give it 6mths and you'll be hearing all about the great audio that others are getting through their new receivers.

[betty boop]

I would stick with the receiver you have at this point in time. The receivers you are talking about don't decode the new formats and they don't have very good bass management systems for the analog inputs. Give it 6mths and you'll be hearing all about the great audio that others are getting through their new receivers.

I'd agree too. jsut about any avr out there these days has multichannel analog inputs.

and as per DGs post, things out there in my opinion can still be a bit messy.

it is a bit of a minefield at the moment, and you cant unforunately count on the fact that an AVR has version v1.x etc as the manufacturer may not have implemented all the features of that HDMI version. throw in that some can only handle 5.1 channels of PCM, some that dont boost the LFE correctly, some that have handshake/HDCP problems etc etc and it really is a bit of a mess.

~

personally I would wait for hdmi v1.3 AVRs to come out. we all know what a debacle hdmi versions can be now. I'd wait till this latest one is out. probably buys you some better chance of less dramas.

and in regards the new surround formats equipped avrs. as I posted here its very interesting what dts says in regards whats needed for DTS-HD Master to fully enjoy their demo disc.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=47552

To enjoy the full benefit ofthis disc, you must play this on a HD-DVD player in addition to a DTS-HD Master Audio capable A/V receiver or preamp. If you do not have a DTS-HD Master Audio capable A/V receiver ro preamp. audio will default to full 1.5Mbps DTS Encore, still providing you with twice the resolution of most standard definition DVDs.

thats enough reason in my mind to wait. and more reason to keep using my 2+ year old avr with multi-channel analog inputs. till somethign more capable comes along.

[Chesty]

I'd agree too. jsut about any avr out there these days has multichannel analog inputs.

and as per DGs post, things out there in my opinion can still be a bit messy.

personally I would wait for hdmi v1.3 AVRs to come out. we all know what a debacle hdmi versions can be now. I'd wait till this latest one is out. probably buys you some better chance of less dramas.

and in regards the new surround formats equipped avrs. as I posted here its very interesting what dts says in regards whats needed for DTS-HD Master to fully enjoy their demo disc.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=47552

thats enough reason in my mind to wait. and more reason to keep using my 2+ year old avr with multi-channel analog inputs. till somethign more capable comes along.

While i hear what you are saying, however as i have a PS3 which has no analogue outputs i have to use optical which as we know does not give me squat.

I guess thats why i want to upgrade. Yes while my Yammy receiver does have analogue inputs, my PS3 has no outputs.

Decisions, decisions.....

[betty boop]

While i hear what you are saying, however as i have a PS3 which has no analogue outputs i have to use optical which as we know does not give me squat.

I guess thats why i want to upgrade. Yes while my Yammy receiver does have analogue inputs, my PS3 has no outputs.

Decisions, decisions.....

one of the reasons why I wouldnt buy a ps3 for blu-ray replay.

for anyone looking for blu-ray replay that $750 s/h sammy that NB is sellign does have analog outputs.

[Chesty]

one of the reasons why I wouldnt buy a ps3 for blu-ray replay.

for anyone looking for blu-ray replay that $750 s/h sammy that NB is sellign does have analog outputs.

Fair call Al and i knew this going in so thats cool. Can bide my time till i update.

BTW, popped in to Audiotrends for the first time since moving to Ringwood. WOW. Their set up is the best i have seen...period.

Although i must say the guy i saw there was quite pushy which i found odd. He was not going to let me leave without ordering the Cambridge Audio AVR. I thought i was going to be kidnapped and held to ransom...

[Cody]

I am leaning towards the Pio AX2 or AX4. They both seem to be getting good reviews

both good choices, just need to ensure you match your speakers carefully. also check the situation with firmware and if they now have the latest version or you will need to take it to Pioneer (in Mulgrave) yourself.

wrt to where to buy, christophersaudiophilestore (Trevor Lees) on ebay is the cheapest ive seen and you can actually go in and pick it up (in Kew). the AX4 seems to be going for around $1700'ish, whereas your looking at about $1800'ish from JB etc.

I would stick with the receiver you have at this point in time. The receivers you are talking about don't decode the new formats and they don't have very good bass management systems for the analog inputs. Give it 6mths and you'll be hearing all about the great audio that others are getting through their new receivers.

nobby, whats wrong with the bass management on the above AVR's?

also, people keep saying that decoding in the AVR (for the new codecs) is the way to go and is going to be "better" - yet noone has been able to back this up with a reason why - can you? there are no shortage of reasons why it wont.

I'd agree too. jsut about any avr out there these days has multichannel analog inputs.

and as per DGs post, things out there in my opinion can still be a bit messy.

personally I would wait for hdmi v1.3 AVRs to come out. we all know what a debacle hdmi versions can be now. I'd wait till this latest one is out. probably buys you some better chance of less dramas.

and in regards the new surround formats equipped avrs. as I posted here its very interesting what dts says in regards whats needed for DTS-HD Master to fully enjoy their demo disc.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=47552

thats enough reason in my mind to wait. and more reason to keep using my 2+ year old avr with multi-channel analog inputs. till somethign more capable comes along.

very curious that comment on the DTS demo disc Al - makes no sence really. the fact that they mention being stuck with the 1.5mb core makes me think it relates more to players AND AVR's that dont have DTS HD MA decoders - otherwise they are basically saying even when the decoders come out in the players, they wont be able to decode and pass as lossless PCM over HDMI (as TrueHD does), which i just can see happening.

at the end of the day, sure wait if your paranoid about it or have no buring need to upgrade, but even if (and when) the new AVR's with HDMI 1.3 and new codecs etc arrive and are affordable, its not like your 1yo (or whatever) Pioneer AX4 or Yammy 2700 etc is suddenly going to be worthless. there are enough people out there that dont care/arent aware of the new codecs etc to ensure you will still be able to sell your AVR at a reasonable price, imo. this is what i'll do if there turns out to be a compelling reason to upgrade.

in the meantime, jump in and enjoy - there will always be something new on the horizon!!

[betty boop]

~

in the meantime, jump in and enjoy - there will always be something new on the horizon!!

in the case of myself or anyone else with an avr with why would I/they DG ?. if got an avr with multichannel in's and hi-def player with multichannel outs. why would I/they need to jump to anything else. enjoying already, not like goign to a hdmi avr is magically going to give me something else ?

[betty boop]

~

also, people keep saying that decoding in the AVR (for the new codecs) is the way to go and is going to be "better" - yet noone has been able to back this up with a reason why - can you? there are no shortage of reasons why it wont.

very curious that comment on the DTS demo disc Al - makes no sence really. the fact that they mention being stuck with the 1.5mb core makes me think it relates more to players AND AVR's that dont have DTS HD MA decoders - otherwise they are basically saying even when the decoders come out in the players, they wont be able to decode and pass as lossless PCM over HDMI (as TrueHD does), which i just can see happening.

~

yes well thats is what it says on the dts-hd master demo disc DG and as I've posted before that is what ti says on the dts website as well. we dont know any different as yet as there is as yet no players out there with dts-hd master decoding capability to try any otherwise.

[Cody]

in the case of myself why would I DG ?. got an avr with multichannel in's a hi-def player with multichannel outs. why would I need to jump to anything else. enjoying already not like goign to a hdmi avr is magically going to give me something else ?

exactly, and ive always said if you dont have any burning need and are happy with what you have at the moment, then probably may as well wait and see. if i was you, i wouldnt either.

when i say jump-in, im aiming that at those who have a need at the moment to get something - either becuase they need HDMI (eg for PS3) or they have no AVR/a crappy old AVR at the moment and are in a position to upgrade now. imo they should jump-in now and start enjoying what current AVR's have to offer -as they will see a bit jump in their HT experience. this is as opposed to basically going without for another 6-12 months until (affordable) HDMI 1.3/TrueHD/DTSHD etc AVR's arrive.

thats my 2c anyway, do you disagree?