Pq On Foxtel - Why Its So Lousy

[sydmos]

Be nice ! but is this true ?

Was talking to a mate about PQ on Foxtel and why its so lousy ( he installs the satellites ) . I mentioned about the 2nd satellite going up and will it improve things etc and he said that via Satellite it takes approximately 4 channels worth of bandwith to make 1 channel with good PQ ?

He also said the plan is for 7 satellites so that they can have the bandwith equal to cable etc and so he reckons it will be awhile before PQ gets any better ?

Right or wrong ?

[MattWinter]

I would think the new satellite will be designed so that it can support a lot more channels than the old one though - I doubt much/any of what he says is true. Mind you I'm no expert - just my guess.

[nagelixin]

Refer to the existing thread... before posting please. Use the search function

[tomlc]

Refer to the existing thread... before posting please. Use the search function

? the other thread talks and talks about tv's etc but this guy is posting about needing upto 7 satellites ?

if this is true then we have a long................. wait.

[DrP]

Cable being wire/fibre has potentially a very very large amount of bandwidth available. In practice probably only a few hundred megahertz would be available for TV programming. With the additional capacity of the next Optus sat + existing in use and spare capacity on Foxtel's muxes on C1, I don't think there's going to be any issues.

In other words, what the installer said is yet another bit of uninformed twattle.

[cyril]

If your mate installs satellites, then I would expect him to be more educated in the technology than he seems to have passed to you.

If he installs Foxtel boxs on the sat service then his level of knowledge seems on par.

Current Foxtel bit rates are in the 2.5-4Mb/s region, its hard to guage the exact as variable bit rates blur the exact through put. Good pic quality happens in the 5-6Mb/s region and upwards. Essentially if Foxtel increased its capacity by 30-50% and added no extra channels then it would be possible to achieve the bit rates of typical FTA SD transmissions.

However I suspect the shareholders of Foxtel are happy with the bit rates, and would rather their investment in D2 be spent on a larger variety and more channels.

Cyril

[tomlc]

A mate told me that as I am on cable it wont be a problem whenever Foxtel do decide to give us better

PQ but he said that anyone on satellite will be a long way off. He said they will need more than just the 2 sats and guestimated it would be 4/6 sats to give out same as cable ?

Is that true Dr P ?

Fortunately for me still have CRT as havent been able to afford an LCD/Plasma yet and just as well by the sound of the lousy PQ.

[pony-tail]

I have been watching this forum for quite a while . I have Foxtel digital - via Optus cable .

My question is - Does this poor PQ affect Foxtel as badly over cable ?

I have been reading multiple threads about this issue , and it concerns me directly as I am in the market for

a new telly , BUT free to air (digital or analogue ) is not practical as the house I live in is surrounded by

HiRise units that severely screw up the signal .I am currently looking at a 42 inch Sony LCD - the one that is

on offer at Wow at present for $1399 ( Panasung would be pleased ) it has a resoloution of 1280x720 .

I am 50 years old and do not know a great deal about the current state of the art tech. but the TV looked

to have a good picture when on display at the store - but if what I am reading about the PQ issues of

Foxtel it would be a waste of time getting a 42 inch set - I also play a lot of DVDs but I believe that

they only have a 560 line res.

[pgdownload]

Sounds like a good buy PT. 42" IMO is still very acceptable for viewing SD. Some Foxtel channels are atrocious but many are ok. All are of lower quality than FTA SD but it can get line ball at times. Try viewing ABC2 (not cartoons) on the screen and this might approximate Foxtel). As its a cheap LCD I'd go back and check how fast motion is handled on the set (esp if you like your sport). DVDs are basically the same as SD and would look great on said resolution. That said I'd just double check the price as you're basically talking about a HD LCD at a very good price.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[pony-tail]

The price is in print in their latest catalogue - They have one in stock plus the one on display .

Analogue tuner though .

[pgdownload]

The price is in print in their latest catalogue - They have one in stock plus the one on display .Analogue tuner though .

Sounds good. At that price you're not 'throwing money away' and there's no crime in getting a TV that exceeds Foxtel's broadcast capabilities. I'd recommend grabbing $100 SD STB from Dick Smith (14 day no questions asked money back) and seeing what it does. Digital FTA is notable in that it might provide a 100% PQ on all stations even when analogue is terrible. DS have an indoor antenna (L4017)($20) that might also be effective.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[pony-tail]

I went ot there to buy it today and they had sport of varying kinds on it , the blurring was horrendous ! I came home with a Panasonic 32inch LCD fpr $100 more - better colour , better picture and 2x hdmi - and 8ms instead of 16ms - Apparently (according to the sales guy ) that is why the Sony blurs on motion .

Will hook it up tomorrow and see what it is like on F(P)oxtel.

[ozasis]

I think he's having you on... I thought all the current Sony's were under 8ms. My Cheapy KLV32S (bottom line Sony 32") claims under 8ms.

[BribieG]

I also play a lot of DVDs but I believe that

they only have a 560 line res.

Seeing as you have 2 HDMI sockets, if you've got about $150 to spare you might consider getting an upscaling DVD player with HDMI output. It 'sucks' everything off the dvd and pipes it straight to the tv with no compression etc, so the sound and picture will be the best you can possibly get within the limitations of your set. Also it will upconvert the signal to 1080i or 720p.

On my 37inch LCD, for example, a quality dvd such as Planet Earth looks almost as good as the HD broadcast version.

[cyril]

t 'sucks' everything off the dvd and pipes it straight to the tv with no compression

HDMI does not bypass any compression, it simply bypasses a DA>AD process, nothing more nothing less. The compression utilised to mpeg2 encode the material onto the disc is 10's of orders inferiour to the DA>AD process that has been bypassed. I guess what I am saying is that all the goodness has already been well sucked out of the video before it hit the disc.

Cyril

[pony-tail]

I have now got the Panasonic setup on Foxtel via a Scart to Component connector .

The picture is somewhere between fair and poor - I have a Grundig HDMI DVD player but do not know if it upscales or not.

I bought it off eBay - it came with just the unit and remote , it has excellent picture quality (for SD) but is a little picky about scratched disks.

Happy with the TV though !

A couple of weeks ago I new very little about HD TV - but I am learning fast (thanks to this and a Brittish forum) I just wanted a new TV - LCD or plazma

due to space requirements . but just a TV .

But when I started to do some shopping (cash in hand ) I found sales persons would pounce often feeding me conflicting mis information or just straight out bul***it

Trying to sell me whatever old stock crap they had at top dollar - While mostly avoiding the newer model stuff - I did learn not to ask them for any advice .

From Lutwytche to Caboolture the only sales person that was genuinely helpful and new what he was talking about was the DSE salesman at Taigum .(Brisbane area)

[dgperth]

Optus has placed an order for satellite D3 to be launched in 2009 (press release on 29 March). Demand by FOXTEL was one of the major reasons for the order. PQ may yet be improved (down the track).

A mate told me that as I am on cable it wont be a problem whenever Foxtel do decide to give us better

PQ but he said that anyone on satellite will be a long way off. He said they will need more than just the 2 sats and guestimated it would be 4/6 sats to give out same as cable ?

Is that true Dr P ?

Fortunately for me still have CRT as havent been able to afford an LCD/Plasma yet and just as well by the sound of the lousy PQ.

[choco36]

Optus has placed an order for satellite D3 to be launched in 2009 (press release on 29 March). Demand by FOXTEL was one of the major reasons for the order. PQ may yet be improved (down the track).

It's so painful waiting, especially after seeing what is possible with HD this morning ie Channel 10's live HD feed of the US Masters was mind blowing stuff on my 127cm Pio.

I hate you Foxtel for depriving us of what you could now be providing if you got your ar.s into gear years ago. I also hate you for not communicating adequately to your customers as to what is happening with HD. I'll settle for good SD sports pictures in WS from the US - when the h.ll is this going to happen!??.

[Roderick]

Be nice ! but is this true ?

Was talking to a mate about PQ on Foxtel and why its so lousy ( he installs the satellites ) . I mentioned about the 2nd satellite going up and will it improve things etc and he said that via Satellite it takes approximately 4 channels worth of bandwith to make 1 channel with good PQ ?

He also said the plan is for 7 satellites so that they can have the bandwith equal to cable etc and so he reckons it will be awhile before PQ gets any better ?

Right or wrong ?

Elsewhere in the world they are moving to the H264 compression standard (AKA MPEG-4 part 10) for satellite tV. That allows them to squeeze more than twice the number of channels into the same bandwidth compared to our current MPEG 2 FTA standard. Alternatively, the PQ Can be doubled for the same bandwidth. The trouble is, you need a new, more expensive, set top box, with much more computing power.

I read an interesting article recently that suggests the compression algoriths are getting better to the tune of halving the bandwith every 10 to 15 years. A bit like Moores Law wrt computer speed. Eventually, though, the theoretical limits will be reached.

Even the MPEG 2 standard is being improved a bit as time go on, and eventually the quality of pictures received, at least on FTA, should improve a bit.

Who knows what Foxtel is planning?

Rod

[jfbari]

Sorry to hijack the tread but still have my "learners" on so cant yet start a new one.

Did I hear right a few days ago that one of the Documentary chanels (possibly Nat Geo) would be airing a special in HD sometime this weekend or was I dreaming??

I only caught the end of the promo but I cant seem to find any extra info on the subject.

Is foxtel able to do this on an adhoc basis??

Cheers,

[DrP]

National Geographic is HD in other markets. In Australia, its hard to call the edition seen on Foxtel SD. The HD promos are nothing but a slap in your face that will continue for some time yet.

[jfbari]

National Geographic is HD in other markets. In Australia, its hard to call the edition seen on Foxtel SD. The HD promos are nothing but a slap in your face that will continue for some time yet.

Thought it too good to be true.

On another note, have been watching on and off the Star Wars marathon on Showtime and have to say the PQ to my eyes isnt too shabby and quite acceptable as is the audio. Am running Pace box through component into Pana TH-42PX600A and taking Optical audio out. Its livable.

[BribieG]

Don't have Foxtel but keep an eye on it, via the ubiquitous Foxtel kiosks in shopping centres with their 4 hitachi plasmapower SD screens. Must admit the movie channels usually look not too bad, if anything can be said to look good on a 42inch 850x480 plasma - (576i into 480 pixels? hello?).

Saw something really daring at Warringah Mall last week - they were actually showing a sports channel with PILLARBOXING !! Maybe they had work experience people on at the kiosk who didn't know how to smear the picture over the full width of the screen, oval balls etc (not that you could see much of the balls). Hope they didn't get the sack.

[Woomera]

Elsewhere in the world they are moving to the H264 compression standard (AKA MPEG-4 part 10) for satellite tV. That allows them to squeeze more than twice the number of channels into the same bandwidth compared to our current MPEG 2 FTA standard. Alternatively, the PQ Can be doubled for the same bandwidth. The trouble is, you need a new, more expensive, set top box, with much more computing power.

I read an interesting article recently that suggests the compression algoriths are getting better to the tune of halving the bandwith every 10 to 15 years. A bit like Moores Law wrt computer speed. Eventually, though, the theoretical limits will be reached.

Even the MPEG 2 standard is being improved a bit as time go on, and eventually the quality of pictures received, at least on FTA, should improve a bit.

Who knows what Foxtel is planning?

Rod

Hmmm, interesting post, I wonder if this could be related to a CNBC news item I saw late on Thurs afternoon rumoured that Foxtel has made an approach to Austar regarding a takeover.

If Foxtel owned Austar maybe the combined subscibers $$$ would enable a faster upgrade to HD.

===============================================

From "The Australian" 5th April

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...73-7582,00.html

Austar revealed it had been in negotiations about "transactions", as speculation strengthens that Foxtel - or possibly a consortium involving Publishing and Broadcasting Limited and News Limited, but not Telstra - is about to launch a takeover bid for the regional pay-TV operator.

The company said in a statement: "Austar confirms that it has received confidential approaches from third parties regarding possible transactions."

Foxtel head of corporate affairs Rebecca Melkman said yesterday: "Foxtel has a longstanding policy of not responding to media speculation of this kind."

Some also speculated yesterday that Mr Stokes - with billions of dollars to spend in the Australian media after starting his media joint venture with private equity firm KKR - was a possible buyer for Austar.

But Greg Fraser, media analyst with Shaw Stockbroking, said this was a scenario that Foxtel's owners, Telstra, PBL and News Limited, publisher of The Australian, would prefer to avoid.

"I don't think they'd like Austar to fall into Kerry Stokes's hands," he said.

Austar said in its statement yesterday that its discussions with the third parties were "preliminary, incomplete and highly conditional".

If Austar were in discussions with Foxtel, it would not be the first time the possibility of such a merger had been discussed.

It is understood a similar scenario was floated around the pay-TV groups in 2003, but the proposal did not proceed.

One market analyst said last night such a merger was logical from a financial standpoint. "It makes a lot of sense for that to be one company," he said.

A senior media industry figure agreed, saying a consolidation of the country's two main pay-TV operators could help to expand the industry's penetration. "The industry has only got 25per cent penetration at the moment, in an industry where economies of scale are a very important part of maximising profits.

"The fastest way for Foxtel and Austar to get to the magic 35-40 per cent penetration level is one cohesive marketing push through one brand, and really focused owners."

One obstacle any such merger could face is price. Yesterday's news of the approaches made to Austar drove the company's shares 6.5c higher to $1.695 on volume of 6.8 million shares, more than 5 per cent of the total stock in the company. The latest rise means the company's shares have risen by 25 per cent in less than two weeks.

With the company capitalised at $2.25 billion by the close of trade yesterday, some analysts yesterday questioned whether the group represented fair value.

Another issue for Foxtel in any takeover of Austar may be regulatory concerns, particularly at an Australian Competition and Consumer Commission level.

Last night government sources were cautious on the issue. One noted: "The focus in the past has been on the method of distributing content. With convergence, the method of distribution of content is not quite so relevant as the acquisition of that content from content suppliers."

ACCC spokeswoman Lyn Enright was noncommittal about the possibility of a Foxtel takeover: "If Austar was under offer from another party, we would review it. Until such time as the details of which parties were seeking to acquire Austar become apparent, it's difficult for us to make any comment."

Mr Fraser said he did not expect the ACCC to block any such deal.

"I wouldn't expect the ACCC to block it," he said. "I think they'll look at subscription television as part of a wider broadcasting market."

If it could get ACCC approval, Mr Fraser said there would be "every reason" for Foxtel to want to get hold of Austar, pointing out the purchase would add about 600,000 subscribers to the 1.3 million that Foxtel already possessed.

Another reason was the potential spreading of costs across a growing subscriber base: "The larger the subscriber base you have, the more you can spread the cost content across that base," he said.

===================================================================

Edited April 7, 2007 by Woomera