"the War" - Why ?

[betty boop]

I have to ask the question. Why is the hd-dvd v blu-ray thing turned into a war. Since when was it a war. who is making it a war and why ?

think about it. We have had two formats before and we still do. eg sacd and dvd-a, ibm pcs and the apple mac, xbox 360 and the ps3. With none of these was or is a war. all seem to co-exist.

I am wonderign if its the proponents of the formats...the studious, the marketting machines behind the formats that are turning it into a war...tryign to get us all geed up and trying to force our hand to choose ?

I'm sure they want a war. they want to push their formats and want us to choose and tryign their best to make out its a war and that one of the formats are going to loose and go under.

I knwo for sure the average public are totally unawares of any sort of war. they'll probably jsut check out the formats and make their own call based on what they experience. the rest of us are lappign up the marketing speil, gettign all wound up and the succers the lot of us. falling for exactly the formats marketting machines would like us to believe !

[mil098]

I have to ask the question. Why is the hd-dvd v blu-ray thing turned into a war. Since when was it a war. who is making it a war and why ?

think about it. We have had two formats before and we still do. eg sacd and dvd-a, ibm pcs and the apple mac, xbox 360 and the ps3. With none of these was or is a war. all seem to co-exist.

I am wonderign if its the proponents of the formats...the studious, the marketting machines behind the formats that are turning it into a war...tryign to get us all geed up and trying to force our hand to choose ?

I'm sure they want a war. they want to push their formats and want us to choose and tryign their best to make out its a war and that one of the formats are going to loose and go under.

I knwo for sure the average public are totally unawares of any sort of war. they'll probably jsut check out the formats and make their own call based on what they experience. the rest of us are lappign up the marketing speil, gettign all wound up and the succers the lot of us. falling for exactly the formats marketting machines would like us to believe !

Nice post.

Sounds logical to me, I've been lurking in this and a few other forums for a while and man I have seem some bitter posts from both sides of the fence.

I have to admit that it turns me off coming to threads that have had some of that bitter fighting.

When that happens, I leave for a while and then come back hoping that the thread had turned back to normal with constructive discussions that actually help people seeking advice.

Mil.

[jokiin]

I am wondering if its the proponents of the formats...the studios, the marketing machines behind the formats that are turning it into a war...trying to get us all geed up and trying to force our hand to choose ?

Bingo!

[madmax]

think about it. We have had two formats before and we still do. eg sacd and dvd-a, ibm pcs and the apple mac, xbox 360 and the ps3. With none of these was or is a war. all seem to co-exist.

They may be co-existing, but they are still wars - it's just that there is no winner yet. The first is a war nobody cares about, the second is a fascinating battle with apple making a strong comeback from the brink of annihilation, and the console war is.......well it's just a war! It's all kinda like a really good game of Risk.....

Wherever there is a serious buck to be made, there will be war. It's an unavoidable fact of human nature.

[kamma]

no offence mil098 but i have always found it funny how people replying first in a new thread always quote the 1st and only post on the topic.

what else would you be replying too?

[mil098]

no offence mil098 but i have always found it funny how people replying first in a new thread always quote the 1st and only post on the topic.

what else would you be replying too?

No offence taken, sometimes you don't know if you are going to be the1st or not. For me it's just habit.

Edit: see I just did it to you!! ;-)

Edited February 17, 2007 by mil098

[kamma]

No offence taken, sometimes you don't know if you are going to be the1st or not. For me it's just habit.

Edit: see I just did it to you!! ;-)

it happens on every forum everywhere in the world its habitual but extremely amusing. i do it myself

[Paranoid666au]

Well damned if I'm going to go to the effort!

I just haven't paid much attention to these forums. I've got my HD DVD player, there's no movies on either format to buy. So now I'm just waiting for something to happen.

I don't really care so much about the war, just that there's good movies to be had and to be had in HD glory.

Although at the moment I'm getting excited about a different HD medium, a HD camera to shoot my own stuff on!

[franin]

I have to ask the question. Why is the hd-dvd v blu-ray thing turned into a war. Since when was it a war. who is making it a war and why ?

think about it. We have had two formats before and we still do. eg sacd and dvd-a, ibm pcs and the apple mac, xbox 360 and the ps3. With none of these was or is a war. all seem to co-exist.

I am wonderign if its the proponents of the formats...the studious, the marketting machines behind the formats that are turning it into a war...tryign to get us all geed up and trying to force our hand to choose ?

I'm sure they want a war. they want to push their formats and want us to choose and tryign their best to make out its a war and that one of the formats are going to loose and go under.

I knwo for sure the average public are totally unawares of any sort of war. they'll probably jsut check out the formats and make their own call based on what they experience. the rest of us are lappign up the marketing speil, gettign all wound up and the succers the lot of us. falling for exactly the formats marketting machines would like us to believe !

I think it was more on people being passionate behind there chosen format.I think it's like everything.It's like someone saying there amp(brand) is much better than that (Brand), you get people debating at first than they argue, than they get nasty! Holden vs Ford, can you imagine getting in one of those forums.Unfortunatley it's everywhere, it usually takes one person to begin it by bagging someone else item.Were actually nothing compared to the americans in there forums, some of them are just down right nasty after you post a question.

[mil098]

Were actually nothing compared to the americans in there forums, some of them are just down right nasty after you post a question.

True, but I have found the opposite as well.

I found that the forums "sometimes" have matured in US a bit more than our Aus ones and the posts are quite entertaining and informative without the slanging.

Remember I did say "sometimes"

[mattis]

Well damned if I'm going to go to the effort!

I just haven't paid much attention to these forums. I've got my HD DVD player, there's no movies on either format to buy. So now I'm just waiting for something to happen.

Jesus, I hope you're watching SOMETHING on your HD DVD player. While the buying options locally are limited for either format, Amazon is your friend.

Matt

[ausnew]

I have to admit that it turns me off coming to threads that have had some of that bitter fighting.

When that happens, I leave for a while and then come back hoping that the thread had turned back to normal with constructive discussions that actually help people seeking advice.

Mil.

I have to agree with this also. The point is that HD material, whether it be BD, or HD-DVD makes for wonderful viewing, and something that should be celebrated and not fought about

The constant bickering imo is getting very boring and seems to take over the whole subject.

Maybe we should have a poll with voting on whether these type of slanging matches should be banned, or restricted to one thread only. As far as I am concerned, they can go play by themselves then

When we see people discuss the merits of Yamaha amps vs Denon amps a more neutral line is taken, and this is how it should be

[Aspect]

Hi guys,

I'm fairly new here, but getting back to the original question posed, I've always likened the war between Bluray and HD-DVD to that of VHS v Beta.

From a consumers point of view, that was a war that was fought and won by VHS, even though Beta is the better format. In that instance, it was a war, which is where I understand the analogy is drawn from.

Cheers,

Chris

[Skid_MacMarx]

I fully support your sentiments alebonau, I have always supported the "co-existence" scenario.

I believe competition between the two formats will benefit consumers.

From the outset, I have always thought this "war" scenario has been crazy, and it has only lead to replacing generally a co-operative vibe at this forum with a "hostile" overtone.

[momaw]

Hi guys,

I'm fairly new here, but getting back to the original question posed, I've always likened the war between Bluray and HD-DVD to that of VHS v Beta.

From a consumers point of view, that was a war that was fought and won by VHS, even though Beta is the better format. In that instance, it was a war, which is where I understand the analogy is drawn from.

Cheers,

Chris

Love the Avatar

But you know the Ori are going down - in the first SG-1 movie!

[IanD1503559705]

IMO, it's a battle for market share dominance (aka monopolisation), driven by greed and a flawed economic model: an incredibly inefficient practice at a time when the world needs to focus on reducing the impact of man on the environment.

Similar situation in the telecommunications industry: battle between multiple opposing groups offering essentially the same product, resulting in duplication of resources in some sectors and dearth in others, purely to win market share dominance (and thus profit).

It has nothing to do with progressing civilisation, unfortunately.

DRM, proprietary formats, etc are tools to enable monopolisation.

[Mr Flibble]

I also have no problem with the two formats co-existing but it will require some changes.

Unless all studios release their titles on both formats or dual format players become the norm, I can't see co-existence happening.

The vast majority of people who buy/rent movies on optical discs are not going to buy two players just so they can view every available title.

There are other problems with the rental market too. If (& at this stage it's probably a pretty big if ) the HD formats supercede DVD the way DVD did VHS, what happens at your local video rental place? Assuming the studios go dual format, unless the majority of people have a dual format player the store will need twice the storage space (& thus higher rental charges).

There is going to be a lot of confusion out there and unless the studios & manufacturers start co-operating (or one of the formats folds) I wouldn't be surprised to see both formats fade into obscurity.

[Skid_MacMarx]

There are other problems with the rental market too. If (& at this stage it's probably a pretty big if ) the HD formats supercede DVD the way DVD did VHS, what happens at your local video rental place?

Rental stores and optical media will also have the threat of "downloadable' movies-on-demand via the internet, that is when telcos gets their act together with cheaper faster stable throughput... conglomos like Microsoft are driving the uptake for the online gaming market.

Also, like CD, DVD is an entrenched format at least for the foreseeable future.

[Cody]

I am wonderign if its the proponents of the formats...the studious, the marketting machines behind the formats that are turning it into a war...tryign to get us all geed up and trying to force our hand to choose ?

agreed, and yes its about market dominance - if one can wipe out the other they will have a monpoly and reap the rewards a monopoly brings.

the only one that benefits from two formats co-existing (in healthy competition) is the consumer, as it forces companies to keep on their toes wrt their product and also keeps downwards pressure on price - and we cant have that.

[-Bishop-]

Sure both formats could survive, but the problems created by that will be a pain, the future would bring duel format players at some point, but then ultimately everyone would 'still' need to go out and buy a new type of player, so really what was the big plus of both formats surviving?

In the war situation, where you are of the mind that one 'must' win, it's not all great, but is it truly that much worse than a duel win scenario?, you may say at least the movies survive, but if you bought an original player for your format of choice, your always going to be able to watch your original movies.

Sure if one format wins, your going to need to buy that player, but in the duel format situation, you were going to end up buying a duel format player anyway, at least in the one format situation, the player will probably be cheaper.

As to the nature of the war, a single universal format is highly desirable, the benefit of one format vs. two is still a preferred 'world' option, which is why this is a war. Coexistence is fine if two products offer something different to each other (like game consoles), but we are talking something that is basically the same, there is no point to having two options here, it just means companies need to spend extra time and money making two versions rather than one, and that's not ideal.

I think it's a war because it has to be, my personal option is there still 'needs' to be a winner, I would actually rather see blu-ray win than both formats survive.

(Yuck, I feel dirty now after saying that, I need a shower to wash off the Sony stink...)

[-Bishop-]

Has anyone done an really basic poll yet just asking what end result we want?, nothing complex, just basically with three options, so what do you want to see happen in this war?, duel format players with both surviving, blue-ray winning being the single future format, or HD-DVD winning being the single future format?.

[Tweet]

If HD DVD ended up with the biggest consumer base and it appears that might be the case if previous stats are taken into account,the Blu-ray studios would find most of their market was simply being denied to them for profit taking.

Thus the Warner option of offering future THD discs for Blu-ray movies might then be a face saving venture.

This simple act of convenience to the consumer may well prove the saviour of both formats.

The cost of a Dual Format player is easily the more expensive option and is likely to be fixated with 'bugs' and on - going firmware updates, with older models being conveniently forgotten about.

C.M

See link........

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8625.html

[mello yello]

Has anyone done an really basic poll yet just asking what end result we want?, nothing complex, just basically with three options, so what do you want to see happen in this war?, duel format players with both surviving, blue-ray winning being the single future format, or HD-DVD winning being the single future format?.

There already is one along the lines of which format would you actually buy?

But its a bit complex as not everyone understood the question...."which format would you actually buy?

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=43133&hl=

I might bump it

or do you want a new poll?

[-Bishop-]

I'm just generally curious as to if people would choose or want duel format players over regular HD players, I'd personally rather 'any' side win, even if I did not like that side.

Thanks for the link to that poll though, had not seen it yet...

[momaw]

*puts super selfish hat on*

I would rather the format I bought win, failing that both formats surviving and co-existing.

Failing that the other format graciously swapping all my discs to their format.

Of course whichever format you choose, that will be the loser.