Aspect Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hi everyone, I have been reading intently for a short while, but this is my first post. I need some advice and help. I am currently running a "basic" HT setup, which I am about to expand upon. I have a PLUS U-112 projector (seems not a lot of people have heard of them, but anyway...) and at the moment I'm firing onto a wall and using my old Pioneer DVD player running through my old Pioneer receiver. I am going to upgrade the amp to a (hopefully) Denon AVR-4306, or if the budget (read: WAF) doesn't extend that far, an AVR-3806. Firstly, I'm buying a screen. Originally I was looking at a Stewart 16:9 fixed screen, but after reading this and other forums, and chatting with Richard from OZTS have decided I want a 2.35:1. Now here's where the problems begin... I don't know if an Aussiemorphic lens will work with my projector. The projector has 3 "aspects": 'Auto', 'Wide' and 'Zoom'. I originally thought "excellent! I can do the vertical stretch required", but after closer examination, I noticed that the zoom is just that, a zoom. It doesn't just stretch the image, which means I lose a lot of the horizontal image through cropping. I don't want to go to the expense of buying the screen and lens, when it may not work as desired. I can get a stetch effect if I have the projector set on "Auto", and then manually use the digital zoom, but I still lose some horizontal image. Is losing some of the horizontal screen worth the gain in vertical pixels? Does doing that kinda defeat the purpose of watching a movie "as the director intended"? Should I get an external scaler that will do the stretch? I know bugger all about them, but am I right in saying they're expensive? As I want to upgrade the DVD player anyway, should I get one that stretches? Do any of the Denon's upscale? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I don't know if an Aussiemorphic lens will work with my projector. The projector has 3 "aspects": 'Auto', 'Wide' and 'Zoom'. I originally thought "excellent! I can do the vertical stretch required", but after closer examination, I noticed that the zoom is just that, a zoom. It doesn't just stretch the image, which means I lose a lot of the horizontal image through cropping. If the projector is a native 16:9, then ZOOM will provide the "scaling" needed for CIH provided that your source (DVD or DTV STB) is set to 16:9 or WIDE mode. It works because it was designed for 4 x 3 transfered letter box program like Laser Disc and some VHS tapes but fills the full width of the panel. I'll see if I can add a drawing to the my site showing how this works... Stay tuned... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Thanks Mark, the projector's native display is 4:3, but it does 16:9. It will display the source as it's supposed too though. While testing with LOTR last night night, the image is displayed in true cinemascope format, but you can notice double black bands. hardly noticeable, but they are there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Alternatively, do I get the correct screen and aussiemorphic lens (if required) and maybe later flog the projector and jump on the HC5000 bandwagon? Everyone seems to rave about these projectors... Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobberon Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Alternatively, do I get the correct screen and aussiemorphic lens (if required) and maybe later flog the projector and jump on the HC5000 bandwagon?Everyone seems to rave about these projectors... Cheers, Chris The HC5000 doesn't do any vertical stretch at all - at least from what I can see from the manual. But that doesn't mean you can't do it from a HTPC. The 8720 looks like it does it out of the box which is a real plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks Mark,the projector's native display is 4:3, but it does 16:9. It will display the source as it's supposed too though. While testing with LOTR last night night, the image is displayed in true cinemascope format, but you can notice double black bands. hardly noticeable, but they are there... Alternatively, do I get the correct screen and aussiemorphic lens (if required) and maybe later flog the projector and jump on the HC5000 bandwagon?Everyone seems to rave about these projectors... Cheers, Chris Future proofing... Buy the Scope screen and the lens, then simply side mask the screen back to 16:9 for now. This way you can actually use the full vertical rez of the projector with the lens to form a 1.78:1 image. You will still have smaller black bars top and bottom for "scope" films. So instead of having a double band of black bars as you have right now usigng the 16:9 function (vertcial compression) in the projector, you let the lens handle the goemetry correction. When you upgrade to a native 16:9 projector, you already have your CIH set up in place... Mark The HC5000 doesn't do any vertical stretch at all - at least from what I can see from the manual. But that doesn't mean you can't do it from a HTPC. The 8720 looks like it does it out of the box which is a real plus. As well as provides a very nice image. With the demand for 1080 projector, the 720 line up will drop making them more affordable... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Ok, cool, thanks for the responses guys! Now what about screens. As I said earlier, I was looking at a Stewart screen, then I found Richard at OZTS, and was impressed by his screens, especially at about 1/3 of the price I could get a Stewart screen for. But I'd like to know if anyone has ever put these screens up against each other in a review? I can see the Stewart Cinemascope being better as it's curved, which gets rid of the pincushioning effect from the lens, focal drop off etc, but would it really be worth the extra $$$? Or maybe OZTS is going to bring out a curved cinemascope? Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Here's some pics of the image in it's various states of "aspect" Widescreen "Auto" "Auto"_Zoomed "Zoomed" Cheers, Chris P.S. Don't worry about the hotspotting, it's just the camera... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Hey, it looks like "Auto" mode will do the trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Hey, it looks like "Auto" mode will do the trick I would agree as the others seem to chop off some of the edge as well... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Super! Thanks guys. Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Super!Thanks guys. Cheers, Chris So with the lens, you can optically convert this projector to 16:9. When you upgrade, just be sure to buy a 16:9 native and that will allow you to go "scope"... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Thanks Mark, as long as I can fill the scope screen vertically, I don't mind masking. The other thing I guess I could do, is by "fiddling", use the projectors manual zoom to expand the image and remove the lens if I want a true "scope" image. I can whip up a sled or pivot pretty easy. Granted I'll still have the bars top and bottom in overscan, but that's not such an issue anyway is it? It'd only be for 12 months or so anyway, as I'd say that's when I'll replace the projector. By then, hopefully 1080p's will have come down a bit in price. But I will definately buy another DLP, and the lumens must be high too. Sim2? Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Preacher1973 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Thanks Mark,as long as I can fill the scope screen vertically, I don't mind masking. The other thing I guess I could do, is by "fiddling", use the projectors manual zoom to expand the image and remove the lens if I want a true "scope" image. I can whip up a sled or pivot pretty easy. Granted I'll still have the bars top and bottom in overscan, but that's not such an issue anyway is it? It'd only be for 12 months or so anyway, as I'd say that's when I'll replace the projector. By then, hopefully 1080p's will have come down a bit in price. But I will definately buy another DLP, and the lumens must be high too. Sim2? Cheers, Chris There is a way to run a 4:3 projector on a 2.37:1 screen, optimised for 2.35:1 and 16:9 material. You will only lose resolution with 4:3 material: 1. For 2.35:1 material, tell the DVD player you have a 16:9 display but set the projector to 4:3 mode. This will give the "tall skinny people" look required. Fit a Horizontal Expansion anamorphic lens to the PJ and set up the projector so that it's projecting this image fullscreen on the 2.37:1 screen. The projector will only be using the 16:9 portion of the panel but it's the best you can do with a 4:3 projector. There will still be black bars projected but they will be above and below your screen and not visible. 2. For 16:9 remove the anamorphic lens and set the projector to 16:9 mode. This will keep the image the same height as previously but as you have removed the lens the width will be smaller. Once again the black bars will be above and below your screen. 3. For 4:3 material remove the anamorphic lens and tell your DVD player/STB that the source material is 4:3 and you want to display it on a 16:9 display. It should now display a 4:3 window inside the 16:9 window. Steps 1 and 2 should work on all setups but there may be some set ups that won't do step 3 meaning you wouldn't be able to display 4:3 material. No big loss as it's supposed to be a "Home Theatre", not a big TV. As for screens, I think jumping into getting a Stewart at this stage may be a bit premature for you. A Stewart is the last screen you buy, not your first. By that I mean that when you buy a Stewart, you are not intending to change it out in a hurry - if ever. It's a screen for life. As such you want to make sure you know what you really want. I think you'd be best served by getting something like a 2.37:1 OZTS. Then after you have your whole set up dialled in, you can consider getting a Stewart. You will know if you want to go 10 inches smaller or 10 inches bigger. With a Stewart you want to get it "just right". Projector wise since you're not looking to buy for another 12 months it's really pointless looking at projectors available at the moment. Within 12 months we will have a whole new generation of machines. Wait until you're ready to buy. Just my $0.02 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspect Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Thanks Preacher, it's worth much more than 2c to me! Cheers! What you say makes sense. My original train of thought was "do it once, and do it right", as I hate spending money where I don't have to. But in saying that, I understand what you're saying and it makes just as much sense, especially considering the current location for my setup will by no stretch be it's final resting place. That will be determined by whether I move house or extend, but that's 5 years away. I don't think I can select a format on my DVD player. It's an old Pioneer DV-414. Bugger me, I can select it! I just checked the instructions! Anway, I'm pretty much sold on the screen/lens package, and will purchase within a couple of months. Now it's onto the processing of sound etc... You guys rock!!! I'm not used to being on this side of the forum. I've got my own site on Brock Commodores, where I'm the senior member giving out the advice. Cheers, and thanks for the new hobby! The wife appreciates it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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