More Media Spin?

[Skid_MacMarx]

what do you think?

It makes me cringe to hear the media comparing this joust between formats to the Beta Vs. VHS scenario

For me this "battle" for most "popular" HD movie format is very different.

what do you think?

I have not voted... you already know how I feel...

But if you are interested in attempting to make comparisons, I suggest you read the wiki article.. very interesting...

However, Sony may be said to have had some small consolation in this saga as its Video-8 small-format videotape is essentially a scaled-down version of the Betamax, and Video-8 dominated the home camcorder format for the next 15 years with the rival VHS-C format, until both formats were rendered obsolete by the digital MiniDV standard.

. . .

The real reason for the success of VHS is RCA, who asked Matsushita for a 4 hour VHS machine. RCA had earlier discussed this with Sony during Beta's development phase, but Sony's engineers felt that by slowing the tape speed from 4 to 2 cm/sec and narrowing the video track, picture quality would be too poor. Matsushita, despite protests from JVC, delivered Long Play, exactly what RCA wanted. RCA in turn would offer their 4 hour VHS decks at a suggested retail of $995. RCA's pricing and marketing of their 4 hour mode VHS machine would be crucial.

. . . .

In the professional and broadcast video industry, Sony's Betacam, derived from Betamax as a professional format, became one of several standard formats; production houses exchange footage on Betacam videocassettes, and the Betacam system became the most widely used videotape forma

[momaw]

No

This is a unique situation spanning many technologies, devices and applications. Hell there isn't even an accurate way to measure the success of one format because of it's "Jack of all trades" nature.

The closest I think we have is DVD-R vs DVD+R as those could be used for data storage, home dvd players and (if so modded) gaming purposes. But even that falls short of the complexities involved in this one.

[franin]

It's completley diffrent know.They have more money,more sense know on both sides.There all signing whoever wants to jump on board.The war of Vhs and Beta is over the war of Bd and Hd-dvd has just begun!

[MELso]

If you're looking for analogies, the ol' SACD vs DVD-A (with minor modifications) always hits the spot.

Like the music formats

- Both formats represent an incremental improvement on the existing digital technology, which most users consider to be 'good enough' (DVD/CD)

- Both formats require expensive setups that are atypical of the average user (mod 1: unlike high end audio equipment, punters will probably buy an HDTV sometime down the track; whether that HDTV will be of benefit remains to be seen though. For example, most punters only have small tellies - under 32" - which will not yield a benefit for HD, and the sales of SD plasmas suggests that many people are happy with low resolutions)

- Both formats have limited content available, and are competing against a well-entrenched format with a wide range of material and conspicuous store placement (mod 2: Blu-ray has focused on new material for its content unlike both music formats and HD-DVD. Whether this will work remains to be seen)

- One of the main aims of both formats is to improve DRM for the studios, when the original format was perceived to be insecure. By strengthening the DRM though, consumers are highly inconvenienced,

One big difference is that both formats can be used as storage mediums and such, there are far greater incentives from a royalty point of view to see wide penetration...

[SDL]

Beta v VHS was only similar in that different companies aligned themselves differently, but in terms of the decision for consumers it is completely different. Video Cassette Recorders were a revolution (unless you include the old VTR) and the benefit of time shifting shows as well as watching movies borrowed from a library was new. Basically people went out and bought what was released so they could do it - we had an old Blaupunkt top loader with a cord remote. I remember sitting with the cord across the room pausing to cut ads out of shows as I taped them - great stuff!

The HD DVD v Blu-Ray is more an upgrade of technology and as people already have DVD players they can sit and wait, especially as many still have CRT's and SD TV's. It is possible that this format issue will have no clear winner as the market won't rush out in the same way and purchase what is on the shelf, and so eventually convergence may well be the way it goes in order to capture a bigger market.

Anyway thats my three cents worth.

[The_Preacher1973]

If you're looking for analogies, the ol' SACD vs DVD-A (with minor modifications) always hits the spot.

Admittedly there are some major similarities there. But there's also one big difference.

People are more impressed with picture quality than sound quality. Have a look around. There's a lot more people buying big screen TV's and pairing them up with $500 HTIB speakers than there are people paying $6k for speakers and then buying a $500 CRT TV.

Look at the history of cinema. You used to have a great big silent picture rolling with some dude playing the piano in the corner for the sound track!

AS such I don;t think it would have matterred whether there was only one high res audio format instead of 2. It still would have died anyway. Portable MP3 players is what people want for music. For most people you don't just sit down in front of a 5.1 speaker sytem to listen to music. You listen to music while you're doing something else. Driving the car, cleaning the house, playing computer games.

It's different with viewing a movie. People sit down and will have a better chance at picking the improvement in quality. Particularly as screens get bigger and more show on TV come in HD well, showing them what they're missing out on.

I still think HD-DVD/BRD will remain niche formats for a while to come but I think they will both sell well enough (in the US anyway) to justify their existence. Once or both of them will survive. Neither DVD-A or SACD will.

[Cody]

some minor similarities, but basically no.

[AndrewWilliams]

^^Good post from The Preacher. I personally think that all DVD players will eventually be HD capable (whichever format wins) and SD DVDs will be phased out. That'll take a long time though - possibly 10 years from now.

[Tweet]

Admittedly there are some major similarities there. But there's also one big difference.

People are more impressed with picture quality than sound quality. Have a look around. There's a lot more people buying big screen TV's and pairing them up with $500 HTIB speakers than there are people paying $6k for speakers and then buying a $500 CRT TV.

Look at the history of cinema. You used to have a great big silent picture rolling with some dude playing the piano in the corner for the sound track!

AS such I don;t think it would have matterred whether there was only one high res audio format instead of 2. It still would have died anyway. Portable MP3 players is what people want for music. For most people you don't just sit down in front of a 5.1 speaker sytem to listen to music. You listen to music while you're doing something else. Driving the car, cleaning the house, playing computer games.

It's different with viewing a movie. People sit down and will have a better chance at picking the improvement in quality. Particularly as screens get bigger and more show on TV come in HD well, showing them what they're missing out on.

I still think HD-DVD/BRD will remain niche formats for a while to come but I think they will both sell well enough (in the US anyway) to justify their existence. Once or both of them will survive. Neither DVD-A or SACD will.

I tend to agree Preach, as creatures we are more oriented towards vision than sound.

Ever watched children in front of a TV watching cartoons with the sound barely audible, they seem to be even more absorbed in the action on the screen and laughing their heads off at the enjoyment.

But, if the image on the screen is very poor though the sound is perfectly audible it is in a very short time turned off.

We derive a great deal of our perceptions through visual clues and less so through sound.

HD is here to stay, the eye craves for it.... imagine trying to perceive the world with fuzzy vision.

The thing is most of the general public just do not know what viewing pleasures quality HD video can provide,but with the release of these new HD products this is slowly changing as HT pervades into the living room.

DVD image quality has 'normalized' and as movies are not providing anything new as entertainment the movie industry is now moving to high definition in order to keep the illusion alive.

Beta could have won the VCR wars had Sony introduced a cassette which allowed for a longer tape length that would accommodate the majority of movies .

C.M

[ozrgv]

While I agree with a lot of the technical discussion on why this is not the same the fact is it the buying public that matter & talking to my non-technical friends it does seem pretty much the same thing to them.

I think its obvious there will be a lot of fence sitting until its clear which is dominant.

As had been said it seems a lot like the DVD-r & +r problem. it seems to me stand alone DVD recorders only really only become common once the vast majority of machines could record both - in fact a lot of the people I know dont know there are different formats - they just stick any old disk in & it records something!

The sooner LG (& others) get dual format players going - then the faster (& therefore cheaper) high def DVD formats with be adopted.

[The_Preacher1973]

While I agree with a lot of the technical discussion on why this is not the same the fact is it the buying public that matter & talking to my non-technical friends it does seem pretty much the same thing to them.

We are the buying public as well. And by that I mean the members of this forum. And yes, while we are a minority, you can still look at the trend so far with HD-DVD/BRD versus SACD/DVDA.

Look at how many people have bought into one format or the other so far. And look at their collections. I bet the total number of HD-DVD/BR discs bought by these people is probably already greater than the total numbder of SACD/DVDA's bought by forum members.

Have a look at the titles available already on Amazon and compare that with the poor selection of SACD/DVDA.

By the end of this year the total number of BR/HD-DVD discs available for sale that I want will be far greater than what my budget for disc buying over a few years would allow for.

My point is that while there will not be massive intereset in the general public, there will be more than enough interest to ensure that a growing catalogue of BR/HD-DVD discs exist well into the future. You can't say that about the high res audio formats.

High Def video discs are here until the next best thing comes along. I just can't see them fading into oblivion - well not in the US anyway.

[SDL]

While I agree with a lot of the technical discussion on why this is not the same the fact is it the buying public that matter & talking to my non-technical friends it does seem pretty much the same thing to them.

I think its obvious there will be a lot of fence sitting until its clear which is dominant.

As had been said it seems a lot like the DVD-r & +r problem. it seems to me stand alone DVD recorders only really only become common once the vast majority of machines could record both - in fact a lot of the people I know dont know there are different formats - they just stick any old disk in & it records something!

The sooner LG (& others) get dual format players going - then the faster (& therefore cheaper) high def DVD formats with be adopted.

But the difference is what you have said. Back when VHS v Betamax wars were on the public was jumping on board and giving a greater market share to one over the other. The problem now is people don't necessarily see the need to jump as SD DVD is good enough on most screens for now and so the battle won't be won with the time to market etc.

[The_Preacher1973]

But the difference is what you have said. Back when VHS v Betamax wars were on the public was jumping on board and giving a greater market share to one over the other. The problem now is people don't necessarily see the need to jump as SD DVD is good enough on most screens for now and so the battle won't be won with the time to market etc.

Excellent point. Back then there was no real other choice. If you wanted to record something you had to chose on side or another. Now there's already another existing player in the market ( SD-DVD).

Yet another reason why this bares little resemblance to previous battles.

[Skid_MacMarx]

.....it is completely different. Video Cassette Recorders were a revolution....

spot on

I just had a "flash back"

Re porn.. when "X" rated videos were legal in NSW, I remember hiring a few with my mate, we were underage and would watch them at my parents' place (we knew the girl at the video store, they weren't on the shelf and she would grab a catalog from under the counter.. The tapes had no pics on the cover just id numbers \. my parents only had a BETA recorder/player at the time ...so there you go .. PORN was available on BETA .. well at least in NSW Note this is the time before the "police" state with age cards etc.. geez what we got away with .. when I was 15 I remember meeting girls at a disco in a hotel in town on Thursday nights. A few years ago, the son of a close friend was a day off his 18th birthday and got charged for being in a hotel (crazy)