Sound For Hd Dvd & Blu Ray

[Guest Conifer]

Hello Hope fully I'm not re-posting

Just read a review on this HD DVD movie. Interesting thing was the DD + sound, (bit rate)

was at 1.5mb

The Audio: Rating the Sound

"http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/mummyreturns.html"

'The Mummy Returns' gets Universal's usual Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 surround treatment (at 1.5mbps), and the results are predictably superb. The movie is almost wall-to-wall action, and the sound design never lets up on the rear action. Aside from the boring romantic bits (take the opportunity to make some popcorn), you definitely won't fall asleep during this one.

So Question? if the sound track was at 1.5mb, how can that be an improvement went you can get DTS tracks at 1.5mb on SD DVD's????

I thought the whole point of HD was to have uncompressed sound and pic?????

Please, please correct me if I'm wrong.....

cheers

[betty boop]

have a read of this toet, might help things

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/better-sou...nd-tomorrow.php

as with this,

http://www.dolby.com/promo/HD/ddplus.html

[Guest Conifer]

have a read of this toet, might help things

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/better-sou...nd-tomorrow.php

thank you alebonau

looked at the dts site

DTS site quote

" DTS-HD is an extension of the original DTS Coherent Acoustics format. All DTS-HD encoded content contains the original DTS 1.5 Mbps core. When played back through your existing DTS capable system, the DTS-HD extension is simply "ignored" and the DTS Core is recognized and decoded. Due to space constraints, most standard DVDs encoded DTS at only 768 kbps, or half of its’ full potential. DTS-HD can contain the full DTS core*, so your receiver will play back DTS surround audio at over twice the data rate of other formats."

SD DVD can still produce 1.5m-mbps sound, look at Hero, Queen, House of Flying Daggers

Queen greatest hits sounds great!!! 96/24 1.5-mbps

I will still take a back sit on HD

[Skid_MacMarx]

Its disgusting that the studios are not putting High rez lossless audio on all HD releases....considering the price they are charging for these discs.

[franin]

Dolby digital +

Supports data rates as high as 6 Mbps.

Bit rate performance of at least 3 Mbps on HD DVD and up to 1.7 Mbps on Blu-ray Disc.

Dolby True Hd

Up to 18 Mbps bit rate.

Supports up to eight full-range channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.

[betty boop]

Dolby digital +

Supports data rates as high as 6 Mbps.

Bit rate performance of at least 3 Mbps on HD DVD and up to 1.7 Mbps on Blu-ray Disc.

Dolby True Hd

Up to 18 Mbps bit rate.

Supports up to eight full-range channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.

thats the bits I think you missed toet as with what is possible with DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA. think your jsut looking at whats possible via the coax output which has limitations. but utilisign the internal decoders and going hdmi or via analog outs and yes there is much untapped potential on the audio side of things with these audio formats, hopefully in time we will get to expereice their full ability.

[Guest Conifer]

Dolby True Hd

Up to 18 Mbps bit rate.

Supports up to eight full-range channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.

I'm not jumping on your joy. I would love to see 8.1 or 7.1 etc.....

SD DVD released, a small hand full of 6.1 dvd's. Meaning I think it's a long way off before we see 7.1 hd dvd's and I'm still waiting for brands to release receivers in true DTS HD and True DD HD. ( and hopefully this year we will see that)

Do you know Universial hasn't released one HD Dolby Digital track yet? why??? I have know I idea??

Their all DD +.... weird?

I'm all for HD, but I just think they will do the old double dip?

in 3yrs time you will see "remasted in True Dolby HD" & "True DTS HD"

[momaw]

......I'm still waiting for brands to release receivers in true DTS HD and True DD HD. ( and hopefully this year we will see that).....

Which are of no use since these are decoded in the players not the AVR's.

[Guest Conifer]

thats the bits I think you missed toet as with what is possible with DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA. think your jsut looking at whats possible via the coax output which has limitations. but utilisign the internal decoders and going hdmi or via analog outs and yes there is much untapped potential on the audio side of things with these audio formats, hopefully in time we will get to expereice their full ability.

please don't get annoyed with my post, just having a friendly discussion HD sound.

Just getting an understanding for the whole thing.

I like asking questions and sometimes thats the only way you learn.

thank you replying to my query

Which are of no use since these are decoded in the players not the AVR's.

they said that about sd dvd's, if you have Pro Logic on your avr and the dvd player has Dolby Digital decoder and then your all set. Soon you saw amps coming out with DD & DTS decoding it all for you

[momaw]

they said that about sd dvd's, if you have Pro Logic on your avr and the dvd player has Dolby Digital decoder and then your all set. Soon you saw amps coming out with DD & DTS decoding it all for you

The difference here is the discs will not allow passthrough of the raw stream.

To decode these bitstreams, the A/V decoder will need to support the updated data protocols, as well as incorporate these new decoding algorithms. In addition, it will be necessary to select HD discs in which the content maker has permitted the core 5.1 or 7.1 audio bitstreams to bypass the player’s mixing process and be sent directly to the digital outputs of the player. We expect that certain HD discs will permit this, but they may represent a minority of titles.

from Dolby

[betty boop]

I'm not jumping on your joy. I would love to see 8.1 or 7.1 etc.....

SD DVD released, a small hand full of 6.1 dvd's. Meaning I think it's a long way off before we see 7.1 hd dvd's and I'm still waiting for brands to release receivers in true DTS HD and True DD HD. ( and hopefully this year we will see that)

Do you know Universial hasn't released one HD Dolby Digital track yet? why??? I have know I idea??

Their all DD +.... weird?

I'm all for HD, but I just think they will do the old double dip?

in 3yrs time you will see "remasted in True Dolby HD" & "True DTS HD"

toet I have a few hd-dvds with dolby true HD. the audio on king kong is pretty good, not jsut in the bass but in detail, dynamics and surround steering with effects and atmosphere. Generally what I'll say about audio on hd-dvd is its very clean and clear and dynamic. but yes I'll be the first to say we havent seen the best of it yet.

maybe get to expereince it first before writing it off ?

[franin]

I'm still waiting for brands to release receivers in true DTS HD and True DD HD. ( and hopefully this year we will see that)

I read that most will be released half way through this year. DTS-HD Master Audio delivers audio at super high variable bit rates -24.5 mega-bits per second (Mbps) on Blu-ray discs and 18.0 Mbps on HD-DVD.Denon will on release that format on there flagship amps only,Why? I do not know.Will other amps follow suit, that I don't even know.

Generally what I'll say about audio on hd-dvd is its very clean and clear and dynamic

I also found that the surrounds played a greater role.Everything seemed 100%

[Guest Conifer]

I didn't think certain receivers could decode some of the DD HD & DD +

I know some receivers, will decode a DD+ track as DTS

Momaw, you might be able to answer this

because some of the chips in the current recievers could only go as far as 1.5mbps

meaning the DD + at 7 mbps or whatever, will get decoded as DTS on the receiver? (which I have seen)

The Receiver can't handle the amount of algorithms going to it.......

I know you will correct me momaw or give me a explaination..

cheers

[momaw]

I didn't think certain receivers could decode some of the DD HD & DD +

I know some receivers, will decode a DD+ track as DTS

Momaw, you might be able to answer this

because some of the chips in the current recievers could only go as far as 1.5mbps

meaning the DD + at 7 mbps or whatever, will get decoded as DTS on the receiver? (which I have seen)

The Receiver can't handle the amount of algorithms going to it.......

I know you will correct me momaw or give me a explaination..

cheers

not 100% on this, but I think the AVRs "decoding as DTS" are not actually decoding as DTS, they just show DTS on the display as they think it is DTS due to the mbps it is receiving. It is actually decoded in the player (as, unlike DVD, the specifications have been designed so that AVR's are not permitted to do the decoding - unless specifically set to allow it - see that dolby link) and then passed through the AVR to the speakers. On the way the AVR gets confused as it does not know this format but thinks it is DTS cause it is at or greater than 1.5mbps.

Other AVR's (such as mine) just display as PCM. Either way the decoding is not done in the AVR - it's just passing through and amplifying the signal, similar to thinking of the player as a pre-amp and the avr as the amp.

The exception to this is if you hook it up via optical or coaxial in which case you get either a downmixed DD or DTS decode (as these connections don't have the necessary bandwidth for the new formats) which is done in the AVR.

[franin]

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-master-aud...ng-receiver.php

High Definition Player with DTS-HD Decoder to Current AV Receiver

In this scenario, the high definition player would output the audio as an uncompressed 6 to 8 channel linear PCM digital audio stream. You will need a player with a built-in DTS-HD Decoder, and both player and AV Receiver need to include HDMI version 1.1 or 1.2* outputs/inputs. HDMI stands for High Definition Multimedia Interface, and is a single-cable connection designed to accommodate digital multi channel audio and video. Simply connect the HDMI cable from the output of the player to the HDMI input of the AV Receiver. The DTS decoder inside the AV Receiver will "ignore" the Linear PCM stream and pass the audio stream on to your receiver's digital-to-analog converters and then on to the 5.1 or 7.1 amplifier. This way you can enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio that is a bit-for-bit identical to the studio master.

Ensuring Compatibility Between Next-Generation

High-Definition Disc Players and Your A/V System

Increasingly, A/V processors and receivers are being equipped with IEEE 1394 (FireWire®) or HDMI connections, capable of transporting up to eight channels of 24-bit/96 kHz PCM audio content. If your A/V receiver is equipped with this type of next-generation connection, you should look for a similarly furnished next-generation optical media player. By this method of connection, the mixed PCM signal is transported from the HD player to your A/V receiver, where digital signal processing and bass management can be easily effected.

A next-generation optical player may also include line-level audio outputs derived from the multichannel mixed PCM signal passed through digital-to-analog converters. The advent of SACD and DVD-Audio in recent years has led to the incorporation of 5.1 and even 7.1 external inputs on many A/V receivers. If your A/V receiver is equipped with 5.1 or 7.1 external audio inputs, the selection of an optical player equipped with 5.1- or 7.1-channel line-level outputs will provide full-bandwidth reproduction of the audio signal originating from your HD player.

connection through either of these existing interfaces will let you experience the full potential of the high-resolution audio delivered on next-generation optical formats.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/t...eHD_avrs_2.html

IEEE 1394 (FireWire®)

I was told by a few members in the other forums that this is much better than HDMI.

[betty boop]

I didn't think certain receivers could decode some of the DD HD & DD +

I know some receivers, will decode a DD+ track as DTS

Momaw, you might be able to answer this

because some of the chips in the current recievers could only go as far as 1.5mbps

meaning the DD + at 7 mbps or whatever, will get decoded as DTS on the receiver? (which I have seen)

The Receiver can't handle the amount of algorithms going to it.......

I know you will correct me momaw or give me a explaination..

cheers

the players decode andoutput via hdmi or multichannel analog outs to your amp.

[momaw]

IEEE 1394 (FireWire®) I was told by a few members in the other forums that this is much better than HDMI.

What AVRs and high def players do they have which leads to this conclusion? I didn't know there were any.

[betty boop]

What AVRs and high def players do they have which leads to this conclusion? I didn't know there were any.

i-link is not supported by te hi-def formats as far as I know. franin will be talking dvd-a or sacd or for dvd. I've seen tests too showing i-link superior to hdmi, but doesnt hae hdcp of hdmi and hence has been dumped.

[mattis]

not 100% on this, but I think the AVRs "decoding as DTS" are not actually decoding as DTS, they just show DTS on the display as they think it is DTS due to the mbps it is receiving. It is actually decoded in the player (as, unlike DVD, the specifications have been designed so that AVR's are not permitted to do the decoding - unless specifically set to allow it - see that dolby link) and then passed through the AVR to the speakers. On the way the AVR gets confused as it does not know this format but thinks it is DTS cause it is at or greater than 1.5mbps.

Other AVR's (such as mine) just display as PCM. Either way the decoding is not done in the AVR - it's just passing through and amplifying the signal, similar to thinking of the player as a pre-amp and the avr as the amp.

The exception to this is if you hook it up via optical or coaxial in which case you get either a downmixed DD or DTS decode (as these connections don't have the necessary bandwidth for the new formats) which is done in the AVR.

Actually what is happening here is all about how your HD DVD player audio settings are set. On the HD-E1 you can output on coaxial/optical as either bitstream or PCM. Same with the HDMI output. Bitstream means the player will transcode the sound to DTS at 1.5Mbps. PCM means its will transcode it to uncompressed PCM in up to 7.1 channels. Setting both audio modes to PCM results in this PCM signal being delivered over HDMI at 96KHz/24 bit. This is currently the only way to enjoy these new HD sound formats in their full glory without using analog 5.1 outputs.

Matt

[momaw]

i-link is not supported by te hi-def formats as far as I know. franin will be talking dvd-a or sacd or for dvd. I've seen tests too showing i-link superior to hdmi, but doesnt hae hdcp of hdmi and hence has been dumped.

so they could not be claimed to be superior when it comes to the new high rez formats........

[franin]

What AVRs and high def players do they have which leads to this conclusion? I didn't know there were any.

My denon amp has two,Marantz DV-9600 dvd player

[momaw]

Actually what is happening here is all about how your HD DVD player audio settings are set. On the HD-E1 you can output on coaxial/optical as either bitstream or PCM. Same with the HDMI output. Bitstream means the player will transcode the sound to DTS at 1.5Mbps. PCM means its will transcode it to uncompressed PCM in up to 7.1 channels. Setting both audio modes to PCM results in this PCM signal being delivered over HDMI at 96KHz/24 bit. This is currently the only way to enjoy these new HD sound formats in their full glory without using analog 5.1 outputs.

Matt

So your AVR would only say DTS if you had it hooked up via coaxial or optical and had the player set to bitstream which would be a less than ideal method of connection, but presuming it is all you have (ie you do not have HDMI or 5.1 analogue inputs) neccessary?

This still leaves any true decoding of the new formats solely in the realm of the player not the AVR.

My denon amp has two,Marantz DV-9600 dvd player

thats not a high def player though. It can't do DD+, DTHD, DTS HD Master so that claim cannot be tested. Or am I missing something.

[franin]

Increasingly, A/V processors and receivers are being equipped with IEEE 1394 (FireWire®) or HDMI connections, capable of transporting up to eight channels of 24-bit/96 kHz PCM audio content. If your A/V receiver is equipped with this type of next-generation connection, you should look for a similarly furnished next-generation optical media player. By this method of connection, the mixed PCM signal is transported from the HD player to your A/V receiver, where digital signal processing and bass management can be easily effected.

That actually came from Ensuring Compatibility Between Next-Generation

High-Definition Disc Players and Your A/V System. From the Dolby True HD website.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/t...eHD_avrs_2.html

[momaw]

That actually came from Ensuring Compatibility Between Next-Generation

High-Definition Disc Players and Your A/V System. From the Dolby True HD website.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/t...eHD_avrs_2.html

That's nice, but I do not know of a single HD DVD player of Blu-ray player with firewire.

PS this is all friendly. Just discussing.

[franin]

thats not a high def player though. It can't do DD+, DTHD, DTS HD Master so that claim cannot be tested. Or am I missing something.

No the Marantz is not, but in the future Im sure once everybody decides who they want to support, Brands like Denon,Marantz,NAD etc etc will release diffrent hd-dvd/blu ray players some bettwer than others with that feature.I only got that quote from Dolby's website Ensuring Compatibility Between Next-Generation

High-Definition Disc Players and Your A/V System under the dolby true hd/avr.I mean we might not see it for another few years.