Recommendations Please

[AlanM]

Hi all

A newbie to the forum here.

Looking buying our first LCD TV.

LCD because I understand these a better (than plasma) in rooms where ambient lighting is quite bright.

Our room is quite small - viewing distance would be about 2.5 - 3 metres. My research suggests 81cm is too small, 106cm is too big.

So I guess we're looking at something in the 94 cm or 101cm size.

Will be used primarilly for Foxtel, FTA TV, DVD, PS2 games. Perhaps a PC connection for viewing photos on CD or direct connection from digital camera? And probably would also want to connect our old VHS VCR.

I have looked a few units (HN, P'House, Bing Lee, etc) and find the trend to highly glossy surrounds a bit curious, as they distract from the screen itself IMHO (they reflect what's in the room and any movement in the room too).

So if anyone has any strong brand/model recommendations I'd appreciate it.

Many thanks

AlanM

[50mxe20]

Sony Bravia.

[Cooksta59]

LCD because I understand these a better (than plasma) in rooms where ambient lighting is quite bright.

Our room is quite small - viewing distance would be about 2.5 - 3 metres. My research suggests 81cm is too small, 106cm is too big.

So I guess we're looking at something in the 94 cm or 101cm size.

Many thanks

AlanM

At those viewing distances 106cm would be a minimum for me.That would be to watch 720p resolution.If you think you may want to watch 1080 (hd dvd , bluray) then you will need a much bigger screen.Check out the viewing distance calculations;

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=16325 ; it will surprise you.

Also I agree with Lyle the sony bravia x series look amazing.

[achjimmy]

At those viewing distances 106cm would be a minimum for me.That would be to watch 720p resolution.If you think you may want to watch 1080 (hd dvd , bluray) then you will need a much bigger screen.Check out the viewing distance calculations;

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=16325 ; it will surprise you.

Also I agree with Lyle the sony bravia x series look amazing.

I would concur but avoid the S model, also you will enjoy your veiwing more if you can control some of the light LCD or not.

[pjc]

LCD because I understand these a better (than plasma) in rooms where ambient lighting is quite bright.

Our room is quite small - viewing distance would be about 2.5 - 3 metres. My research suggests 81cm is too small, 106cm is too big.

I don't agree with this statement about ambient light unless you are woried about reflected light from behind the viewing position as plasmas are glass fronted vis LCD and are more reflective.

I also think 106cm would be no problems for that viewing distance. It is amazing how quickly tou get used to the size. My 106cm is positvely small now!

Philip

[Nova Phoenix]

The Sony KLVV32A10 was playing Hoodwinked when I saw it today. Was in a dark scene of the movie, and it seemed to do well with it too.

But of course, the lighting Target has around it probably helped.

So...is it true that more light around or directed at the screen would help bring out blacks better? Please tell me, I'd love to know (for future reference).

[spiralout]

So...is it true that more light around or directed at the screen would help bring out blacks better? Please tell me, I'd love to know (for future reference).

More light around the screen would make the backlight of the LCD not as noticeable, and in turn make the blacks look better.

A lot of the newer Sony panels have backlight power saving which lets you dimm the backlight anyway, so the same results should be achievable at home (or even bettered!)

[Nova Phoenix]

So it is true then, that LCDs are not for dark/lightless rooms, but for brightly lit ones instead?

[ozdoc]

So it is true then, that LCDs are not for dark/lightless rooms, but for brightly lit ones instead?

Well, I guess bright rooms in the day tend to be dark at night... make of that what you may..

Certainly, in a room with windows behind the seating and around the room that might reflect, then LCDs are great for day time viewing, where as a plasma will reflect the windows. Personally our family doesn't do too much daytime viewing, and because of an interest in sports I found the plasma to be more appealing to my eye compared to a LCD.

As for the blacks not being black enough, the average LCD owner would not even see this as an issue until you point it out to them, then it may bug them forever. So it's probably good etiquette to just not mention it to them..

So...is it true that more light around or directed at the screen would help bring out blacks better? Please tell me, I'd love to know (for future reference).

One reason is optical perception issues. Ambient light behind the screen or in the room will close the iris of the eye further, making our visual sensitivity to black / grey contrast less acute. In a dark room the iris is more open. The night vision area of the retina (back of the eye) is mostly around the periphery of the retina and the iris needs to be open for light to get to these areas. That is why after a few minutes in a dark room you can then focus much better on shadows / objects.

So in a dark room, our iris is open, and the peripheral retina will then see more contrasting in the blacks of a LCD, and pick up the subtle grey backlight. In a bright room, the peripheral retina is less used, so the black / grey contrast is less of an issue.

[big_marcelo]

the Metz has one of the best picture I've seen on an LCD, but its very expensive .... Sony wins on the looks and value for money, plus the picture is excellent also .....

[Nova Phoenix]

ozdoc, thanks for your advice. Going by what you said, an LCD would be better for daytime use. As a gaming panel though, as even I'm not convinced it's the best for TV/movies. That would be a good use for CRT and Plasma.

[Black Dawg Down]

ozdoc, thanks for your advice. Going by what you said, an LCD would be better for daytime use. As a gaming panel though, as even I'm not convinced it's the best for TV/movies. That would be a good use for CRT and Plasma.

If you spend a lot of time playing games, definitely go for LCD.

Contrary to what many people say, plasmas are still prone to image retention/burn-in. Although the length of time of IR vary, I personally would've chosen LCD if I can turn back time.

[Nova Phoenix]

If you spend a lot of time playing games, definitely go for LCD.

Contrary to what many people say, plasmas are still prone to image retention/burn-in. Although the length of time of IR vary, I personally would've chosen LCD if I can turn back time.

What is a good LCD panel for gaming then? Any recommendations people?

[wilder]

What is a good LCD panel for gaming then? Any recommendations people?

I used to use the Chimei 22 inch widescreen monitor. bought it for $550 last year July. its pretty good - easy on the eyes.

Should be cheaper now.

Edited February 2, 2007 by wilder

[Owen]

So in a dark room, our iris is open, and the peripheral retina will then see more contrasting in the blacks of a LCD, and pick up the subtle grey backlight. In a bright room, the peripheral retina is less used, so the black / grey contrast is less of an issue.

Subtle?

In a dark environment the grey blacks of LCD displays sticks out like the proverbial dogs nuts, and results in a horrid washed out image on dark scenes.

Plasma’s in general have much better blacks, but only the Panasonics can be considered reasonably good.

There are no digital displays available that have really good blacks.

[Geforce]

Subtle?

In a dark environment the grey blacks of LCD displays sticks out like the proverbial dogs nuts, and results in a horrid washed out image on dark scenes.

Thanks Owen, that's all i needed to know. We love watching movies in the dark, even during daytime (just pull the curtains closed).

As for gaming time (xbox360), i know people recommend an LCD but if the black levels are that bad in a dark room while watching a dark scene in movie, then forget it. It would really bug me.

Just waiting on Pana 1080p plasmas now.

[pjc]

...but if the black levels are that bad in a dark room while watching a dark scene in movie, then forget it. It would really bug me.

Just waiting on Pana 1080p plasmas now.

Owen will pipe up any minute now and tell you that if you want good black levels then forget the 1080p panel and get the current one as the black levels are better anyway and the extra resolution at 106cm is pointless unless you are really up very close.

Philip

[Owen]

Thanks Owen, that's all i needed to know. We love watching movies in the dark, even during daytime (just pull the curtains closed).

As for gaming time (xbox360), i know people recommend an LCD but if the black levels are that bad in a dark room while watching a dark scene in movie, then forget it. It would really bug me.

Just waiting on Pana 1080p plasmas now.

Could be a long wait if you want black levels better then the existing 768p model.

The just released 1080 Plasmas from Pioneer and Panasonic have significantly worse blacks then their 768 counterparts.

There is talk from Pioneer and Panasonic of new Plasma technology with much improved blacks, but I don’t expect we will see them until 2008.

If you don’t intend to buy a 65”, there is little advantage in 1080p for most viewing situations.

Happy now Phil

[big_marcelo]

ther importance of 1080p or resolution for that matter relates to distance and source material.... if you are seating at 2.5m+ and have a 42" panel... don't worry about 1080p .... 768p is fine and much cheaper.....

I love the blacks and PQ of a plasma... however if I was a heavy gamer I would probably go for an LCD since there is so much image retention on plasma.... I would worry too much ....

[pjc]

Happy now Phil

Wasn't sure if you were about .... just trying to spread the Owen doctrine (which I whole heartedly agree with)

Philip

[tom_tank]

I looked at dozens of of LCD's & the Sony Bravia came out on top. Blacks are now 'acceptable', even in dark scenes, & minimal ambient light. (Mine is now in the bedroom).

From what I saw, most plasma's were not acceptable where ambient light was significant, due to the refraction of light from the phosphor causing dark scenes to be washed out - Just my opinion....

I agree with Owen's statement about size & resolution. Don't bother with 1080p at the distance & size you've mentioned - You would need superman vision to notice the difference. :-)

[Owen]

ther importance of 1080p or resolution for that matter relates to distance and source material.... if you are seating at 2.5m+ and have a 42" panel... don't worry about 1080p .... 768p is fine and much cheaper.....

I love the blacks and PQ of a plasma... however if I was a heavy gamer I would probably go for an LCD since there is so much image retention on plasma.... I would worry too much ....

At 2.5m + even a 50" is too small for 1080 to be useful.

[Geforce]

Could be a long wait if you want black levels better then the existing 768p model.

The just released 1080 Plasmas from Pioneer and Panasonic have significantly worse blacks then their 768 counterparts.

There is talk from Pioneer and Panasonic of new Plasma technology with much improved blacks, but I don’t expect we will see them until 2008.

If you don’t intend to buy a 65”, there is little advantage in 1080p for most viewing situations.

Happy now Phil

Hmmm....thanks, will wait for a review of the black levels for the new 50" 1080p Pana plasmas when they are released before laying the cash down. Do you have a link for an early review of this panel?

So, at 3 metres i wouldn't be able to see the difference in resolution between a 768p model and a 1080p model?

[Owen]

So, at 3 metres i wouldn't be able to see the difference in resolution between a 768p model and a 1080p model?

On a 50" not a chance, you would struggle at 2 meters.