Guest raeldush Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi guys, first time poster, long time reader I have a question regarding the playback of CDs on a HT system and whether the purchase of a separate CD will mean a significant improvement to the sound quality, given the other components I am using. Relevant components are: Speakers (L+R) - JM Labs Cobalt 826 HT Receiver - Pioneer VSX2AV Speaker Cables - QED Silver Anniversary - 2m long (non-biwire) Currently, CDs are being played through a Pioneer DV686 DVD Player or through the DVD RW of my media centre PC. (both connected to the HT Receiver through Coaxial Digital cables) For what it worth, I can hear no difference between the above 2 sources but that may be because the DVD RW is also Pioneer brand. Obviously a good CD player will offer a better sound quality, but my budget is not to go above about $500 if I was to go down the path of a separate CD player. For that price, is it worth the addition? Any advice is appreciated. Rael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart1503560475 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Welcome to the forums As good as the Pioneer DV686 is as CD player for a budget DVD player, IMO even a modest dedicated CD player will make a significant difference. For around $500 you could grab a NAD 521BEE, or Cambridge Audio equivalent, and I think you will find improvements in detail, dynamic range and soundstage. That said, these improvements will be limited to the degree that the amp is not ideal for 2 channel playback. I made the move from a DV676 to a 521BEE on my Denon 3805 a couple of years ago and noticed a big improvement. I've since sold the 521BEE and upgraded to a Squeezebox, which adds yet another improvement and is a big winner in the convenience stakes too. Next step of course is to supplement the 3805 with a dedicated 2 channel integrated with HT bypass ... but that is yet another step on the endless journey of upgaditis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50mxe20 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Next step of course is to supplement the 3805 with a dedicated 2 channel integrated with HT bypass ... but that is yet another step on the endless journey of upgaditis Yes, me too. Very appealing idea. Although watching all the hdmi debate closely. May have to upgrade the AVR too. And yes a dedicated quality CD player will make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mining Man Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Another thing too, is to use the onboard DACs of the CD player, rather than those in the AVR. It would be fair to say that a dedicated CD transport the likes of the NAD or Cambridge mentioned (others include Marantz, Denon, Arcam, Rotel etc) would have much better DACs for 2 channel than those in your AVR. As a start, run a pair of RCAs from the audio out of your 686 to the CD input of your VSX2AV. (I also use a DVD player for CD playback. Not the ideal solution, but it's an interim measure. I have digital out for DVD and analogue out for CD. I've played a CD and switched between DVD and CD on the AVR. The difference is quite clear.) Also, as mentioned already, this analogue signal would further benefit from dedicated 2 channel processing and amplification. But that's getting carried away isn't it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5teve Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Yes, me too. Very appealing idea. Although watching all the hdmi debate closely. May have to upgrade the AVR too. And yes a dedicated quality CD player will make a difference. but connecting via digital.. wont you be limited by the DAC in the receiver... i thought the transport didnt have 'much' to do with the quality... im probably wrong.. but hell i'll never learn if i dont get corrected! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mining Man Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 but connecting via digital.. wont you be limited by the DAC in the receiver... i thought the transport didnt have 'much' to do with the quality... im probably wrong.. but hell i'll never learn if i dont get corrected! Steve Nah, you got it. Although don't discount the job of the transport. It is after all, the thing that physically picks up the 1s and 0s from the disc. Obviously some do this better than others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5teve Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Nah, you got it. Although don't discount the job of the transport. It is after all, the thing that physically picks up the 1s and 0s from the disc. Obviously some do this better than others... so therefore if you get a dedicated cd player.. use the analogue output.. otherwise im sure the dvd transport wont be doing a bad job of getting the 1's and 0's from the disc! just need a better dac in your receiver... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutty Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I too have been seriously considering the dedicated CD option lately, after researching and seeing that many agree a dedicated CD player will give better sound than your average DVD player. Given that it's in the OP's price range(and i can get a deal on one) anyone have an opinion on the Yamaha CDX-596 ? Is the Pro-Bit stuff all B.S or what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mining Man Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 so therefore if you get a dedicated cd player.. use the analogue output.. otherwise im sure the dvd transport wont be doing a bad job of getting the 1's and 0's from the disc!just need a better dac in your receiver... Steve Not as simple as getting a better DAC in the receiver. The receiver is already acting as the pre / pro / amp stages of getting those 1s and 0s to the speakers. Throw in the DAC duties and it's starting to get pretty busy. Much better to have a decent DAC in the transport. Of course, you could go the total separates route, and have a single box for each of the duties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5teve Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Not as simple as getting a better DAC in the receiver. The receiver is already acting as the pre / pro / amp stages of getting those 1s and 0s to the speakers. Throw in the DAC duties and it's starting to get pretty busy. Much better to have a decent DAC in the transport.Of course, you could go the total separates route, and have a single box for each of the duties... sorry i meant better DAC THAN the reciever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mining Man Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 sorry i meant better DAC THAN the reciever.... That'll do too!! (I find it almost unbelievable, that in the picture I attached in the last post, one of those boxes is a $7k DAC. That's all it does!!! And it's connected to a $7k CDP that has exactly the same internal DACs. I must admit, I find it hard to believe that separating the CDP and DAC in this instance, can make any discernible difference, in anything other than an acoustically designed room. The net difference is individual power supplies for the 2 functions. Surely that doesn't impact the ability of the transport and the DAC to do their respective jobs???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi guys,first time poster, long time reader I have a question regarding the playback of CDs on a HT system and whether the purchase of a separate CD will mean a significant improvement to the sound quality, given the other components I am using. Relevant components are: Speakers (L+R) - JM Labs Cobalt 826 HT Receiver - Pioneer VSX2AV Speaker Cables - QED Silver Anniversary - 2m long (non-biwire) Currently, CDs are being played through a Pioneer DV686 DVD Player or through the DVD RW of my media centre PC. (both connected to the HT Receiver through Coaxial Digital cables) For what it worth, I can hear no difference between the above 2 sources but that may be because the DVD RW is also Pioneer brand. Obviously a good CD player will offer a better sound quality, but my budget is not to go above about $500 if I was to go down the path of a separate CD player. For that price, is it worth the addition? Any advice is appreciated. Rael Rael even if you spent $500 on a cd player as posted by a few others its quite likely that the avr is going to strangle any of its 2ch goodness and will be the limiting factor. couple of choices add a 2ch integrated or pre-pwr or go for a ht avr which does a better job of 2ch eg arcam, nad, rotel, hk etc or move to a ht pre-pwr good ofr 2ch eg the rotel 1068/1098 pre-pros coupled with a power amp. all big bickie options. cheapest and simplest would be sjut to get a 2ch integrated to go with the cd plaeyr. check the htfaq sticky pletny of options there including as suggested by mozart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raeldush Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thanks for all the responses, I know that the current receiver is not ideal for 2ch audio but I don't think the option of fully separate systems is viable to me at this point, for both budgetary and space reasons. I just want to make sure that everything is nicely balanced so if there is some capacity in the receiver to handle the improved CD player without changing too much else, then I want to do it. I will check out the suggested CD players. I will also try the RCA cables instead of the current coax. I guess that ultimately my ears will be the judge. I might try find a place that is prepared to offer a loan CD player so that I can make a proper decision. Thanks again for the advice. Rael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mining Man Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 ~I guess that ultimately my ears will be the judge. I might try find a place that is prepared to offer a loan CD player so that I can make a proper decision. ~ If you've come away from this thread with nothing but this, then you're miles ahead of many others. Well done!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamapro Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hey there Raeldush and welcome mate Just to add to some of the opinions already being bandied about round here i'll share my 2c. 1st) Yes a CD player will make a fair - massive improvement on 2ch music playback, a similar 'gain' can be achieved down the track by partnering with a 2ch integrated amp. I think it's kinda cool that you can get an intitial improvement for $500ish and then double the effect down the track if you so desire 2nd) If you add a CDP absolutely don't even think of running it into your AVR over a digital connection (been done to death a;ready and you get the point so 'nuff said!) - analogue interconnects are the go. 3rd) Just to add another option into the mix as far as great budget CDPs go IMHO you can't look past the Harmon Kardon HD 970 (at least for an audition).. Heres Why: It can be had at around the $5-600 price point; I have found it to be one of the best and most natural sounding performers in the 'budget' price point; Most interestingly the HD970 has multiple digital inputs - allowing you to utilise the high quality internal DACs with any other 2ch digital source (think pc, note-book, STB 2ch only MP3 players etc..) HKs styling is always sooo svelte and sexy - and the blue backlighting alone is enough to bring the necesary WAF 9 times out of 10! HK's styling also means its a perfect cosmetic match for the HK 970 2ch Integrated amp (which you can buy down the track) - which again is not only clearly the best styled 2ch integrated going around under $1500 but in my opinion the best built and a fantastic performer. There you have it a few more options and ideas anyway The NAD and Cambridges are also fine units Best of luck. If you've come away from this thread with nothing but this, then you're miles ahead of many others. Well done!! Hehehe i missed that point from the OP - great pick-up MM and a lesson well learned in such a short space of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raeldush Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thanks guys, I did a lot of reading on this (and other) sites before posting and noticed that the structure of most postings by newbies is as follows: Newbie : I am thinking of getting X, Y and Z... is this a good choice? Guru 1 : X and Y are not really compatible... what about A? Guru 2 : Have you though of B as an alternative to Z? Guru 3 : One thing to consider about Y is the following .... etc Newbie : Thanks for the advice... I think I will go with X, Y and Z I like to think I am a little different I have always wondered about Harmon Kardon equipment. I agree that they look pretty cool, but always thought that coolness and "kingness" were mutually exclusive. I mean, my uncle has a HK receiver (and he has no clue about quality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennb Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I mean, my uncle has a HK receiver (and he has no clue about quality). Theoretically, it is possible to get a good sounding system purely by accident/luck But it doesn't happen very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Theoretically, it is possible to get a good sounding system purely by accident/luck But it doesn't happen very often. HK is not the last word in fidelity but at the price it commands it does a lovely job.There are obviously alternatives like to everything else.But if it does fall into your price range and you do purchace HK you've done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 HK is not the last word in fidelity but at the price it commands it does a lovely job.There are obviously alternatives like to everything else.But if it does fall into your price range and you do purchace HK you've done well. I agree there is always better stuff no matter what you look at. In the price bracket their gear is in I think they hold up pretty well. Have owned HK AVRs for close to the last decade and been pretty happy with quality and performace of the stuff. Anyways quality like a lot of other things is very much in the eye of the beholder. In regards cars for instance for many the quality of Totyota is the best in the world yet for many nothing less than a Merc would do. As with anything, keep an open mind and check out the avaialble options for your self and buy whatever you think is best for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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