Windows Vista Review

[Glider]

Oh look it's the FUD brigade.

Is Vista responsible for global warming too (I believe the Greens think so!)?

>edit

Umm, the only thing that happens at the moment is that the movie plays. No current HD-DVD or Blu-Ray content is using any of DRM constraints at the moment. If it changes it won't only be Microsoft platforms that are affected.

BTW the same DRM rules apply to Apple, Sony's PS3, and all major vendors of software for content playback including Cyberlink PowerDVD, WinVideo, etc. It's also in all the HDMI equipped hardware we buy. This is not a Microsoft only constraint, if anything blame the content providers and the mass market commercial pirates.

Please stop with the FUD especially as you haven't tried it (unless some used a cattle prod!?). I have. All the media centre functionality works exactly as it should with the media I've tried. Oh and that includes testing with DRM enable media requiring license acquisition from a third party.

The FUD brigade!!!!

Microsoft are the biggest users of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty,Doubt) in the IT industry. In order to preserve their (almost) monopoly of the desktop computer market against Apple/Linux and any upstart competitor (ie, Netscape) who may come up with a operating system/utility that is better than the equivalent Microsoft offering.

Now you are saying that Microsoft are the victims of FUD over Vista? Leave the reverse spin to Shane Warne, he's a lot better at it!

As for global warming, if you read the newspaper headlines this morning, it's all of us, not just Bill Gates.

But I digress. I certainly don't blame Microsoft for the initiation of DRM; that award goes to the Hollywood studios and RIAA, but Microsoft are trying to sell me a new operating system of which DRM is an integral part.

you seem to be saying that there is no problem playing (predictably) cracked HD-DVD and BluRay movies on Vista, over HDMI. Have you tried it?

I certainly wouldn't consider Vista until they get SP1 out the door. That looks like October at the earliest. When I build my new HTPC at the end of the year, the MAC operating system is certainly in the running to replace Windows, in a dual boot system with Linux which is now much more user friendly.

I am always happy to be informed or corrected on any point where I may be mistaken. This is a friendly forum Kiwimeat.

[djOS]

---SNIP---

Another bit on Tom's today, Vista wont play Blue Ray disks, not supported.

Also 1 in 20 have NO trouble installing (i.e. 19 in 20 do)

A clsss action against nVida, there Vista ready cards mainly are not.

FWIW, Im typing this using Firefox 2 on Vista Enterprise Edition right now!

1/ MS is in the HD camp so no surprises there

2/ crap, drivers for some HW can be an issue but the actual installation of Vista if significantly simplified compared to XP (and faster too).

3/ in testing we (part of my job is SW/HW & OS socialisation for our corporate environment) have found that nVidia do not have their act together at all - some of their cards even need FW upgrades to be recognised by their own drivers.

ATi's drivers on the other hand are superb - Im using catalyst 7.1 on a Radeon 9800pro right now. (PC is my Athlon64 3000+ with 1 Gb of Ram).

Btw, once you turn off UAC, Vista is a brilliant OS and a nice improvement in performance (for general usage - Im not a gamer) over XP (never thought that was possible!!)

[kiwimeat]

The FUD brigade!!!!

Microsoft are the biggest users of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty,Doubt) in the IT industry. In order to preserve their (almost) monopoly of the desktop computer market against Apple/Linux and any upstart competitor (ie, Netscape) who may come up with a operating system/utility that is better than the equivalent Microsoft offering.

That’s a different issue….let’s try not to get distracted shall we.

Now you are saying that Microsoft are the victims of FUD over Vista? Leave the reverse spin to Shane Warne, he's a lot better at it!

Microsoft are perfectly capable of defending themselves and my spin may not be up Warnie’s but then I don’t have his behavioral and maturity issues either.

But I digress. I certainly don't blame Microsoft for the initiation of DRM; that award goes to the Hollywood studios and RIAA, but Microsoft are trying to sell me a new operating system of which DRM is an integral part.

Microsoft aren't the only vendor who has to comply with the demands of the content industry. DRM exists in MACs, PS3's, XBoxes, all other mainstream portable media devices.

you seem to be saying that there is no problem playing (predictably) cracked HD-DVD and BluRay movies on Vista, over HDMI. Have you tried it?

I’m not saying that there is no problem playing cracked HD content on Vista, over HDMI (you are aware that its HDCP not HDMI that is the content protection scheme and it can be found in some DVI implementations as well), as I haven’t tried. Moreover, as cracking and ripping it is illegal, are you accusing Vista because it doesn’t pander to pirates?

I have however, tried HD content on hard disk, including some where the content protection flags has been on (for testing purposes), played back from PC's running Vista Media Centre through component, DVI and HDMI interfaces with the appropriate result. This meant that the flagged content did not work on component but did via DVI and HDMI no issues . It's no different than using a HDMI equipped DVD player.

I certainly wouldn't consider Vista until they get SP1 out the door. That looks like October at the earliest. When I build my new HTPC at the end of the year, the MAC operating system is certainly in the running to replace Windows, in a dual boot system with Linux which is now much more user friendly.

That is entirely your choice. I'm running Vista successfully on a number systems but on others like my new work Laptop I waiting for the manufacturer to finalise all the drivers (about 95% available at the moment)

My FUD comment is aimed at posts like your attack on Vista possibly not allowing playback of pirated content, but especially complete scaremongering like johndee's

There was an interesting bit on the BBC web site on the legalities of Vista.

Anyone reading it will never buy Vista; it gives Microsoft the right to do anything they want to your computer if they find (Or think they find - not the same thing) pirate soft ware.

It is also possible for hackers to use the same function to delete files

JB

Another bit on Tom's today, Vista wont play Blue Ray disks, not supported.

Also 1 in 20 have NO trouble installing (i.e. 19 in 20 do)

A clsss action against nVida, there Vista ready cards mainly are not.

Just on the last three points..

It's not Microsoft's fault that the manufacturers' of Blu-Ray (not "Blue Ray" btw) drives for PCs haven't provided drivers.

95% issue rate with installations...hmm got any evidence (nice hard evidence or statistics would be nice) for that figure plucked out of the ether? From my own experience both at work and home computers, I have issues with about 10% of support hardware (normally fixed by reboots, reinstalls of drivers), and 25-50% of unsupported hardware (most resolved with a bit of brain power). Actually compared to early XP the installation process is impressive and most self-fixing. And with well supported hardware the results are very impressive. Vendor's should try to be more like Lenovo who have got 95% of all drivers out the door by launch and I have a T41p (not officially supported as Vista Capable) and a new T60 that have 100% driver support and functionality.

Again the Nvidia issue is not Microsoft's fault. And it mainly seems to be only the newest cards. My slightly older 4200, 6600GT, 6800GT and 9800GS all work fine.

BTW johndee posting links would be a start.

There is plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Microsoft and Vista. Yours and johndee's aren't them IMO. Hence my "FUD brigade" comment.

From my perspective there are plenty of issues to take up with Microsoft.

For a start there is the multiplicity of confusing versions, the petty removal of key functions from lower/cheaper versions, the pricing, the restrictive upgrade path.

Then there is the deliberately obstructive user interface that makes doing some task far too complex. Plus the dumbing down of many other UI features.

Next take the changes (some forced for legal reasons in Europe) to the driver and security model.

Actually you seem to have missed my primary point....Vista is Just Another Flipping Operating System. It’s just the platform that enable us to do things. If it works for you, good, if it doesn’t then there are alternatives.

BTW I am far more impressed with Office 2007 than I am with Vista.

[Glider]

>edit

Moreover, as cracking and ripping it is illegal, are you accusing Vista because it doesn’t pander to pirates?

I have however, tried HD content on hard disk, including some where the content protection flags has been on (for testing purposes), played back from PC's running Vista Media Centre through component, DVI and HDMI interfaces with the appropriate result. This meant that the flagged content did not work on component but did via DVI and HDMI no issues . It's no different than using a HDMI equipped DVD player.

>edit

My FUD comment is aimed at posts like your attack on Vista possibly not allowing playback of pirated content, but especially complete scaremongering like johndee's

>edit

From my perspective there are plenty of issues to take up with Microsoft.

For a start there is the multiplicity of confusing versions, the petty removal of key functions from lower/cheaper versions, the pricing, the restrictive upgrade path.

Then there is the deliberately obstructive user interface that makes doing some task far too complex. Plus the dumbing down of many other UI features.

Next take the changes (some forced for legal reasons in Europe) to the driver and security model.

Actually you seem to have missed my primary point....Vista is Just Another Flipping Operating System. It’s just the platform that enable us to do things. If it works for you, good, if it doesn’t then there are alternatives.

BTW I am far more impressed with Office 2007 than I am with Vista.

"Pander to pirates"? Kiwimeat, my question regarding the playing of cracked content on Vista was simply to know what happens! There have been reports in the media that Vista may shut your system down if you attempted to play pirated material over HDMI. I thought given your obvious experience with this new OS, that you may be in a position to throw some light on the issue.

It certainly wasn't an ethical question regarding the rights and wrongs of pirated material. Copyright holders are perfectly entitled to protect their intellectual property.

I also have absolute faith in all those Microsoft Certified engineers out there who enjoy a challenge and have spare time on their hands. They will hack/crack any software protection system that content providers come up with. Then there is organised crime...

The Mac OS, PS3, etc all have DRM enabled and it is going to be interesting to see what happens when people upgrade their systems. Most people do not like having restrictions placed on their leisure activities.

From the reviews I have read of Vista, your complaints regarding this OS are widely shared. I am in no rush to upgrade to Vista. XP was much better than Windows 98, but Vista appears to lack any compelling new features.

If you think that it does, please enlighten us.

[djOS]

Well I must say my Vista experience is going quite nicely so far and it's very sexy with Aero on my Radeon 9800 Pro.

I only have 3 outstanding issues atm:

#1 My external HDD wont show up via Firewire - It appears in the device manager and not in Drive management. But if I use USB2 it works just fine?

#2 My game port on my Sb Audigy refuse to load its driver even tho Vista recognisies it- obviously not a show stopper, just a loose end.

#3 I cant get my widcomm USB Bluetooth dongle to work yet; but I have read that it will work just haven't tried hard enuf.

[Submariner1503559614]

video

Vista's speech recognition exploit.

Vista breaks 90% of games, says game publisher.

Vista common complaints after release.

[Submariner1503559614]

Is Vista responsible for global warming too (I believe the Greens think so!)?

They may be right Normally we use 2d video for the desktop with WinXP etc., while Vista Aero uses 3d video. 3d video uses more power than 2d video. The video cards power up for 3d load and power idles in 2d desktop mode. Heat increases in the case, when the video card gets hotter thanks to 3d, and that affects other components and their fan speed (cpu and system fan) will increase to keep things cool, increasing power usage again. Does not mean much when you think of a single computer, but now lots of Business computers and home computers use 3d Aero to pretty up their desktop, all over the world. Add it all up and it could be a significant amount to add to the problem, but it is not responsible.

[mich1503559502]

I've been running vista home premium for almost a week and i have to say it absolutel;y rocks. My tuners used to drop out in XP (my reception isnt that great) but its rock solid in Vista, the gui is awsome, and its been completely 100% stable since i installed it.

the OS installed extremely quickly, detected everything correctly including my wireless network, the installation of iceTV went perfectly smoothly, and i have mine connected to my xbox360 to watch tv in the lounge, and the connection to that went perfectly without a single hickup.

i had several issues with instability and quirks with vista beta's, but the RTM version is so far proving to be a real winner. much much improved over XP when comparing specifically the media centre side of things.

[diggings]

The PC User mag from a couple of months ago had some interesting apps included on the cover cd.

These apps emulate some of the Vista features - for XP.

IMO, I'd rather stay with XP right now.... can't see anything compelling to upgrade... yet...

Regards,

Rass...

HI All

I've installed a program from the Net that sort'a transforms XP to look like Vista; for my money it generally works well, adding a Vista-like appearance, but without big-V's system demands.

Over on the other hard-drive, my RC1 version of Vista Ultimate seems to run well. But it loves its RAM: even though the machine has 1Gig of SD133, it slows down, to the point where running DVD movies on Windows Media Player is a no-no, 'though it's ok on the Nero player.

And like Rass, I can't see anything to make me fork out dollars for upgraded hardware, in order to pay extra dollars for Vista ... well, not yet, anyway.

Cheers

NOEL GORDON

[mich1503559502]

HI All

I've installed a program from the Net that sort'a transforms XP to look like Vista; for my money it generally works well, adding a Vista-like appearance, but without big-V's system demands.

Over on the other hard-drive, my RC1 version of Vista Ultimate seems to run well. But it loves its RAM: even though the machine has 1Gig of SD133, it slows down, to the point where running DVD movies on Windows Media Player is a no-no, 'though it's ok on the Nero player.

And like Rass, I can't see anything to make me fork out dollars for upgraded hardware, in order to pay extra dollars for Vista ... well, not yet, anyway.

Cheers

NOEL GORDON

have you run vista media centre in RC1 and compared it to media centre in XP?? Vista is sooo. sexy, and whats more important its about 10 times more stable!! I have no idea what is wrong with your setup, except that it must be your video card (ie. GPU). I'm running a 2.8GHZ dual-core CPU with 1gb of memory, and its never had so much as a glitch when even recording 2 shows at once and watching 2 shows at once all at the same time (ie. watching 1 thing on the media centre in the study and something different via the xbox360 in the loungeroom).

[djOS]

Wooo Hooo, I just got Vista Ultimate 32/64Bit Edition from my friendly Microsoft rep today and Im going to rebuild my MediaCentre with it on Saturday.

[Sticky Keyboard]

I'd wait until Service Pack 4 is available for Vista before using it....

[AndrewW]

Yesterday I found a guy on a forum who 'sold' keys.

Jeez I wonder who the 'guy' is ?

Reported.

[byte-me]

Jeez I wonder who the 'guy' is ?

Reported.

Yes I wonder *scratches head trying to solve the mystery*

I also reported it this morning.

BTW Andrew, nice avatar!

[mich1503559502]

I'd wait until Service Pack 4 is available for Vista before using it....

why - so long as your hardware manufactures have vista drivers available - its already way more stable than XP ever was. (RTM anyway - RC1 wasnt nearly as stable).

[mich1503559502]

They may be right Normally we use 2d video for the desktop with WinXP etc., while Vista Aero uses 3d video. 3d video uses more power than 2d video. The video cards power up for 3d load and power idles in 2d desktop mode. Heat increases in the case, when the video card gets hotter thanks to 3d, and that affects other components and their fan speed (cpu and system fan) will increase to keep things cool, increasing power usage again. Does not mean much when you think of a single computer, but now lots of Business computers and home computers use 3d Aero to pretty up their desktop, all over the world. Add it all up and it could be a significant amount to add to the problem, but it is not responsible.

you know what - you're probably right about that. now microsoft as with any corporation these days (perhaps except goodle) generally five sweet FA of a care about the environment, only their own bottom line, but imagine how many greenies would be urging people to upgrade to vista if its processing power requirements were reduced by even as much as 5%.

like was stated in al gore's movie, companies have to realise that doing good for the environment does end up in doing well for business - tho from a selfish point of view - i do love the aero 3d gui!

[AndrewW]

BTW Andrew, nice avatar!

Thanks.

Some guy on a forum sold it to me, all I had to do was transfer $10 to some anonymous email account :ph34r:

Andrew.

[mich1503559502]

Thanks.

Some guy on a forum sold it to me, all I had to do was transfer $10 to some anonymous email account :ph34r:

Andrew.

ROFLOL!

[byte-me]

Thanks.

Some guy on a forum sold it to me, all I had to do was transfer $10 to some anonymous email account :ph34r:

Andrew.

Sounds awesome, suck count me in!

[Scorchie™]

Been using Vista since December - I'll go out on a limb and claim its the best release since Windows 95.

Stuff just works, without fuss.

[djOS]

Been using Vista since December - I'll go out on a limb and claim its the best release since Windows 95.

Stuff just works, without fuss.

yeah and surprisingly it's not slower than XP, in fact most things are a lot faster in Vista!

[AndrewW]

Been using Vista since December - I'll go out on a limb and claim its the best release since Windows 95.

Stuff just works, without fuss.

Stop it, will you.

I've been sitting back happily reading the stories about Vista is the work of the devil.

If I keep reading good things then I will go and buy it and then I;ll have to go and upgrade my PC ...

what's that sound ? oh yeah, its my credit card gasping out its last sad breath

Andrew.

[mello yello]

Seems Steve from Eastwood is not too impressed with it.

Seems Panasonics website doesnt like it

And some Yamaha networked receivers need a firmware upgrade

February 8th - Bloody marvelous isn't it! I'm not in IT although, like a lot of techno heads out there, I keep up to date as regards new technology etc. so it comes as no surprise that I've heard of Microsoft Vista. Indeed, I've already installed it on three of my computers, Home Premium at home (2) and Vista Business at work. It doesn't really add to productivity but it looks cute and it does make networking easier (except with the Yamaha network receivers, but more on that later). It came as some surprise then, that when attempting to log onto the Panasonic dealer web site (the only way to reliably order and get stock updates) the damn thing didn't want to talk to me. The lovely Web Site lady, Vicky, put me across to IT support who said they had never tried accessing the site using Vista (it's a Java driven site and has always had issues). Now excuse me for seeming dumb, but wouldn't you think that one of Australia's biggest electronics wholesalers whose thousands of retail partners order and check stock on line, would be aware that Vista would be the Next Big Thing in operating systems and would have tested for compatibility? The IT support suggested I get a computer with Windows XP just for accessing the Panasonic site. Hmmm, must think about that. Unfortunately, it's been so long since I actually phoned anyone in sales at Panasonic, I don't even have their contact details anymore, looks like I'll have to find the number and revert to the old methodology (talking to humans).

Yamaha has had problems with their networking A/V receivers - specifically the RX-N600 - when talking to Windows Media Centre (as in Vista Home Premium). It worked OK with Windows Connect II but not the new system. At least they only took two weeks to come out with a fix, it's a firmware upgrade which takes 2 minutes and can be performed by any Yamaha Service Centre - or here at the store as long as you purchased the machine from us. All new units delivered as from today will have the firmware upgrade performed.

Link

[xr06t]

i was looking at a htpc with vista ultimate..

is it going to be possible to play my music etc that i have on my current computer, or is vista going to assume that i have obtained it illegally and not let me use it once i transfer it to the vista machine?

cheers

[djOS]

i was looking at a htpc with vista ultimate..

is it going to be possible to play my music etc that i have on my current computer, or is vista going to assume that i have obtained it illegally and not let me use it once i transfer it to the vista machine?

cheers

If you are building a dedicated HTPC then imo Ultimate is not required; Home Premium has the full Media Center included and it's a lot cheaper.