Ceiling Mounting

[mossy1503559706]

I've started to research a projector. I'm looking at around $2000-$2500, however could spend up to $3000 if its really worth it.

I've just brought a house that has a cinema room and the projector is on the ceiling. The vendors are taking it all with them, however from what I have read from my research so far, is that LCD is better as a ceiling mount because if its off on an angle or anything, you can adjust it better. Is this true? Or is DLP the same?

I saw the Benq 7700 on AIM for $1999. Its a few years old, but sounds like great value for a HD 740p PJ. I don't see the difference between the 7700 and the 8720 other that the D2/D3 chip. Both have Picture in Picture which is good as I haven't read that any other PJ has this. Can anyone tell me if it works on all inputs?

Look forward to your suggestions.

Mossy

[norpus]

I've started to research a projector. I'm looking at around $2000-$2500, however could spend up to $3000 if its really worth it.

I've just brought a house that has a cinema room and the projector is on the ceiling. The vendors are taking it all with them, however from what I have read from my research so far, is that LCD is better as a ceiling mount because if its off on an angle or anything, you can adjust it better. Is this true? Or is DLP the same?

I saw the Benq 7700 on AIM for $1999. Its a few years old, but sounds like great value for a HD 740p PJ. I don't see the difference between the 7700 and the 8720 other that the D2/D3 chip. Both have Picture in Picture which is good as I haven't read that any other PJ has this. Can anyone tell me if it works on all inputs?

Look forward to your suggestions.

Mossy

No difference in mounting. (I have owned 2 of each)

[Guest EZYHD]

I've had one of each, doesn't matter if ite LCD or DLP as norpus says. The thing you may need to know is the PJ lens throw because if the current PJ is out of lense range you'll need to move the mount.

[wheresbaz]

Hi Mossy,

I have just been through the same process i.e. researching what projector to get it 2k to 3k range. I think one of the most crucial questions you have to answer is how much ambieant light will be in the room. I took a lot of advice on board from the members here and got it down to the Epson TW700/600 or SanyoZ5/Z4. I eventually went for a Sanyo Z4 because I have a fully light controlled room. (sorry foxy). I am extremely happy with purchase but also know I would have been with the Epson as well. I hope this helps.

Cheers Bill

[Guest EZYHD]

Sanyo Z4 or Z5 is hard to beat in a light controlled room, the Epson TW600 (now the TW700 is excellent in both, the reason I didn't go with the Sanyo was the price at the time $3K (street).

[mossy1503559706]

Sanyo Z4 or Z5 is hard to beat in a light controlled room, the Epson TW600 (now the TW700 is excellent in both, the reason I didn't go with the Sanyo was the price at the time $3K (street).

Ok, thanks for your input.

So both of the projectors, Sanyo and Epson are LCD. So none of you rate DLP at all? I thought from what I have read is that DLP is supposed to be better. I know they both have the pros and cons, but they say the purist go for DLP. I thought then the Benq models were quite good and they have some really good reviews.

I'm not sure on the light, there would be a little bit during the day as the light would get through the wooden venetian blinds on the small windows, but I reckon most of my viewing would be at night. So whats better, LCD or DLP in high light situations? I haven't read about that yet?

Thanks

Mossy

[The_Preacher1973]

Ok, thanks for your input.

So both of the projectors, Sanyo and Epson are LCD. So none of you rate DLP at all? I thought from what I have read is that DLP is supposed to be better. I know they both have the pros and cons, but they say the purist go for DLP. I thought then the Benq models were quite good and they have some really good reviews.

I'm not sure on the light, there would be a little bit during the day as the light would get through the wooden venetian blinds on the small windows, but I reckon most of my viewing would be at night. So whats better, LCD or DLP in high light situations? I haven't read about that yet?

Thanks

Mossy

The Benq 8720 is a highly regarded model and you probably wouldn't go wrong with that.

The 7700 on the other hand has been plagued with issues and many forum members that have seen one don't rate it that highly. If you really want DLP and are looking to play in the shallow end of the pool you should consider the Mitsubishi models: HC1100, HC3000 and HC3100. They have a much better reputation.

As for your original question, the reason LCD may be considered more flexible in mounting is that you tend to get lens shift at cheaper prices than you do on the DLP models. eg. the 7700 and the 3 Mitsi models I mentioned do not have any lens shift. That means that when you mount them you can;t move the picture around without moving the PJ itself. Most people here overcome this limitation by using a ceiling mount with some adjustment in it.

As for brightness, the TW700 and the AX100 are the brightest of the "economical" projectors. An LCD projector with the same wattage bulb as a DLP model will usually be brighter because of the light loss caused by the spinning colour wheel of the DLP.

My recommendation would be to avoid the 7700. If you are keen on DLP and have the funds, stretching to $4000 for the Benq 8720 would be highly recommended (it also has lens shift). If you don't want to pay that much but are still keen on DLP, you can import the Mits HC3100 from Price Japan for around $2000 or the HC1100 for $1500. You won't have local warranty though. In my opinion this is probably a good thing because aside from the expense of shipping the PJ, you'll usually get your PJ back much faster from Japan or the US than you will from local service agents.

If you want to stay local and want lens shift and a brighter picture for watching with some ambient light, you couldn't go wrong with the TW700. Despite my dig in the previous paragraph, Epson seem to look after their customers here in Australia quite well which is more than I could say for some of the others. Same goes for the Sanyo Z5 but it's strength lies in having a very well light controlled environment.

Hope this helps.

[wheresbaz]

Mossy,

I can't answer the DLP vs LCD question. But may I suggest you also take into account things like manufacturer service reputation, warranty, lamp hours, design of projector i.e. lense cover, noise level, ease of setup, bulb replacement difficulty, any means of cleaning dust from internals. Just something else to think about.

Cheers Bill

[Guest EZYHD]

Ok, thanks for your input.

So both of the projectors, Sanyo and Epson are LCD. So none of you rate DLP at all? I thought from what I have read is that DLP is supposed to be better. I know they both have the pros and cons, but they say the purist go for DLP. I thought then the Benq models were quite good and they have some really good reviews.

I'm not sure on the light, there would be a little bit during the day as the light would get through the wooden venetian blinds on the small windows, but I reckon most of my viewing would be at night. So whats better, LCD or DLP in high light situations? I haven't read about that yet?

Thanks

Mossy

These days the larger majority buy LCD Pj's as they have improved so much in the past 18 months, one of their weaknesses was black levels, but not anymore. I can vouch for the Epsons and the very few who have had problems have received excellent service without the hassles.

[brooksy]

Couple of other points to consider re lcd v dlp is most (all?) budget (<$6000) dlp projectors use a spinning colour wheel. The lcds use 3 independent colour chips (red,green,blue). The spinning colour wheel in dlps can give off a "rainbow effect" which some people are susceptible to seeing.

Because you will be roof mounting, take into account the projectors lens shift abilities. This allows you to place the projector above (or below) the screen and still project squarely onto the screen without loosing sharpness and focus. Lens shift also allows you to offset the projector right or left from the center of the screen, without effecting pq.

The digital keystone correction feature in projectors does the same thing as lens shift, but should be avoided if possible as it does reduce pq.

Zoom range should be taken into account too, especially if your using the existing mount, or mounting location. Depending on the screen size, if the projector is fairly close to the screen, this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[Hydrology]

On a personal level, Id be staying away from the BenQ PE7700 if at all possible. A poor product with even worse customer service.

[Guest EZYHD]

Because you will be roof mounting

I keep telling people not to put the mount on the roof its much better on the ceiling, at least my way the birds wont kak on it.

(its ok I know what you mean)

[brooksy]

I keep telling people not to put the mount on the roof its much better on the ceiling, at least my way the birds wont kak on it.

(its ok I know what you mean)

Well, if you want to be technically and literally correct about it, i would suggest most people don't mount to their ceiling, but to their roof frames/joists, such as i have done. Structurally the ceiling boards would not be that advisable to mount to. But thats cool, i know what you mean

[wheresbaz]

Couple of other points to consider re lcd v dlp is most (all?) budget (<$6000) dlp projectors use a spinning colour wheel. The lcds use 3 independent colour chips (red,green,blue). The spinning colour wheel in dlps can give off a "rainbow effect" which some people are susceptible to seeing.

Because you will be roof mounting, take into account the projectors lens shift abilities. This allows you to place the projector above (or below) the screen and still project squarely onto the screen without loosing sharpness and focus. Lens shift also allows you to offset the projector right or left from the center of the screen, without effecting pq.

The digital keystone correction feature in projectors does the same thing as lens shift, but should be avoided if possible as it does reduce pq.

Zoom range should be taken into account too, especially if your using the existing mount, or mounting location. Depending on the screen size, if the projector is fairly close to the screen, this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I believe lens shift and keystone correction are two different things. Please someone correct me if I am wrong but from what I have observed there is no difference in PQ when using lens shift.

Cheers Bill

[bwilson]

I believe lens shift and keystone correction are two different things. Please someone correct me if I am wrong but from what I have observed there is no difference in PQ when using lens shift.

Cheers Bill

Bill, I think the issue is you can angle the projector to get the image lower, but then you need to use keystone to correct the geomety. As aposed to lens shift where you keep the projector level. I have a Z4 and i think it start to suffer from lens shift if you are using too much (in both directions).

[achjimmy]

Cant believe we got to 10 posts before the dreaded "rainbow" reared its head!

bwilson make sure you demo a DLP projector before purchase, include your family, dog, relo's, potential visitors and anybody who may be effected by rainbows watching your PJ (LOL) sorry just reminiscing the DLP v LCD debates of the past.

Sorry, seriously make sure you take a couple of DVD’s along to an audition with your family and spend plenty of time watching preferably at you viewing distance to be sure all are comfortable with the image.

Jim

[wheresbaz]

Bill, I think the issue is you can angle the projector to get the image lower, but then you need to use keystone to correct the geomety. As aposed to lens shift where you keep the projector level. I have a Z4 and i think it start to suffer from lens shift if you are using too much (in both directions).

Yep that it is what I thought. Keystone for correcting image geometry when you angle the projector and this downgrades PQ. However I have a Z4 too and have been playing around with the lens shift and have noticed no difference in PQ anywhere I move the picture. Have a blank wall at the moment so can play around a fair bit.

Mossy Found some good info here http://proav.pubdyn.com/Hands_On/June20527200543157PM.htm hope this helps with your quest.

Cheers Bill

[McKenzieJr]

I test drove everything from the Sony VPL-HS60 to the Panasonic AE900 to the cheaper Benq DLP models, to several InFocus Screenplay models. My top contenders were the Sanyo Z5 and the Sony VPL-HS60.

In the end I went with the Sony. The Sony had the best contrast ratio and it was the quietest. Check to see if the adaptive iris bothers you, though. I don't notice it, but it does bug others. You can get these for $2,600 without any serious haggling.

Both myself and my girlfriend suffer from rainbow effect with single chip DLP projectors, so these were quickly discounted. If you like DLP, I found it harder to see the rainbows on the InFocus, which was a pretty good DLP at the price point. I would like to see a 3 chip DLP projector to see if the rainbow effect is eliminated there, though. But if you're talking sub-$3,000 you're not thinking 3 chip DLP. You should see if anybody else who is going to be using the projector is affected by rainbow effect just in case.

If ceiling (or joist) mounting is your issue, you want a projector with lens shift and keystone correction. Also look at throw distance - you don't want a projector that can't do at least 80" at 3m or you will severely limit your installation. Some of the earlier Panasonics were pretty bad in this regard, but anything after the AE700 had no problem here. The Sony has lens shift and vertical keystoning, but not horizontal keystoning. Question how far off-centre you will need to mount the projector before you determine whether horizontal keystoning is necessary for you.

I use the LP Morgan Skyhook as a projector mount, which has a great extending arm so you can drop the projection of the image into the sweet spot of the screen for the least amount of lens shift or keystoning (it's best to avoid keystoning wherever possible). You want a mount that can hold at least 10kg in case future upgrade projectors are heavier - some of the really high end units are 20kg, though CRT projectors still have that beat. With mounts, trust brand names that offer insurance, and be wary about buying over the internet. It's great to think that you can get a cheap mount for $80 from eBay, but not so great when the badly manufactured screws snap and you cop a 5kg projctor in the head. If a coconut falling from a tree can kill, imagine what that will do. Budget at least $200 for a goot mount, and $300 if you want the extending arm mounts for good drop-down.

Once you decide on the projector, you can decide on the screen to match the projector. Hopefully you will have already sized up your room for the correct screen size. I'm a fan of fixed frame, just because I like the look and feel of them better, and my evaporative aircon doesn't blow them around. You should budget for at least an additional $1,000 for the screen - a DIY job really is no substitute (though you can probably live with it until you've seen the real deal side by side), and trying to use the wall is just a waste of money on the projector.

One last issue - with digital projectors, HD is definitely the way to go. Under $3,000 you won't get 1080p, but there are some excellent 720p/1080i models on the market in that price bracket. SD digital projectors are, at least in my opinion, very ordinary, and with DLP, they really seem to accent the rainbow effect (not sure why, but the rianbow effect was truly atrocious on the SD DLP models I tried).

Good hunting - I hope you find something you like.

[mossy1503559706]

Thanks everyone.

I can't get into the new house for a few months now as we settle then. So I'll certainly be doing a lot of research in the next 3 months. Maybe something new might even be out by then, or the prices may drop a little.

I'm a little sad to hear about the Benq 7700 as I can't see that any other projectors have PIP yet which I love on my plasma! I use it a lot.

I'll also definitely go for a fixed screen. Probably 100 inch.

Cheers

Mossy