cwt Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Just some info for anybody wanting full 7.1 dts hd audio on current hdmi 1.1/2 amps.Now that there is a trickle of dts hd 6.1 [ x men3 on blu] and we were soldiers on dolby true 6.1 I think;some bad news. The anthem d2 pre pro has been found to not process 7.1 pcm through its hdmi inputs. It will use thx ultra2 on the core 5.1 to give back surrounds. If anybody wants true discrete 6.1/7.1 and wont settle for less hdmi 1.3 may be the only solution[ unless of course analog multi is good enough The anthem uses motorola chips and somebody on avs said this was the limiting factor ;so I cant speak for say cirrus chips or yamaha's home grown LSI's.I knew there had to be a catch with this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizt Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Just some info for anybody wanting full 7.1 dts hd audio on current hdmi 1.1/2 amps.Now that there is a trickle of dts hd 6.1 [ x men3 on blu] and we were soldiers on dolby true 6.1 I think;some bad news. The anthem d2 pre pro has been found to not process 7.1 pcm through its hdmi inputs. It will use thx ultra2 on the core 5.1 to give back surrounds.If anybody wants true discrete 6.1/7.1 and wont settle for less hdmi 1.3 may be the only solution[ unless of course analog multi is good enough The anthem uses motorola chips and somebody on avs said this was the limiting factor ;so I cant speak for say cirrus chips or yamaha's home grown LSI's.I knew there had to be a catch with this stuff Yeap, HDMI v1.3 should take the guess work out of all of this crap. Its hard to know what pieces of hardware can decode what and what they can then pass as LPCM (most don't do 7.1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 Yeap, HDMI v1.3 should take the guess work out of all of this crap. Its hard to know what pieces of hardware can decode what and what they can then pass as LPCM (most don't do 7.1). Exactly Drizt ; my Integra manual was no help and may have to use my 8 channel analog in the meantime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 not sure i follow cwt.. yes there are some AVR's with HDMI that wont accept 8ch/7.1 LPCM, but there are plenty around that the manufacturers claim can. or are you just saying the anthem d2 pre/pro cant? (no huge suprise - are there any pre/pro's that can?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Just some info for anybody wanting full 7.1 dts hd audio on current hdmi 1.1/2 amps.Now that there is a trickle of dts hd 6.1 [ x men3 on blu] and we were soldiers on dolby true 6.1 I think;some bad news. The anthem d2 pre pro has been found to not process 7.1 pcm through its hdmi inputs. It will use thx ultra2 on the core 5.1 to give back surrounds.If anybody wants true discrete 6.1/7.1 and wont settle for less hdmi 1.3 may be the only solution[ unless of course analog multi is good enough The anthem uses motorola chips and somebody on avs said this was the limiting factor ;so I cant speak for say cirrus chips or yamaha's home grown LSI's.I knew there had to be a catch with this stuff well now what did I say ! hence its always best to wait and see with these things ratehr than speculate. now are all those that kept on posting re you dont need hdmi 1.3 going to eat their hats on the count of 3 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50mxe20 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 now are all those that kept on posting re you dont need hdmi 1.3 going to eat their hats on the count of 3 ! So have you got hdmi 1.3 Al? And if not how are you managing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 So have you got hdmi 1.3 Al? And if not how are you managing? nah lyle just the old analog way. 5.1 analog out from tosh hd-dvd to the my hk avr630 5.1 analog in. video I take hdmi from tosh hd-dvd straight to the hitachi hdmi in and watch in hdmi. With the hk avr I actually use the dvd-audio mode on its 6 ch input which allows PLIIX to be used to decode the rear channels which I have found to have a bit of info for effects/ambience. This is for DDplus and dolby trueHD. For DTS jsut run plain coax from hd-dvd to avr and use DTS-ES/neo6 to get some rear info. Dotn have any discs with DTS-HD as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50mxe20 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 nah lyle just the old analog way. 5.1 analog out from tosh hd-dvd to the my hk avr630 5.1 analog in. video I take hdmi from tosh hd-dvd straight to the hitachi hdmi in and watch in hdmi. With the hk avr I actually use the dvd-audio mode on its 6 ch input which allows PLIIX to be used to decode the rear channels which I have found to have a bit of info for effects/ambience. This is for DDplus and dolby trueHD. For DTS jsut run plain coax from hd-dvd to avr and use DTS-ES/neo6 to get some rear info. Dotn have any discs with DTS-HD as yet. And I'll bet the sound is Blo*dy awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 And I'll bet the sound is Blo*dy awesome!! yes and no lyle. some discs sound very good eg chronicles of riddick, harry potter. but to be honest not done any back to back comparissons with just plain old dvd to say boy this is out of the world or anything. I would say at this point with the HD formats youd buy them more for the pq than the audio quality. I guess DVD is already quite good audio wise also I suspect we are jsut scratchign the surface audio wise with these new hd formats. I for one think audio wise there is so much more potentially possible with the new audio formats and hence keen to see more movies with full bit rate DTS-HD/MA / dolby true hd sound tracks plus takign things past 5.1 to 7.1. Also keen to see players with full audio capability eg lossless full dts-hd ma and dolby true hd plus with 7.1 analog outputs so we can get to expereince the full capability of these new formats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 not sure i follow cwt..yes there are some AVR's with HDMI that wont accept 8ch/7.1 LPCM, but there are plenty around that the manufacturers claim can. or are you just saying the anthem d2 pre/pro cant? (no huge suprise - are there any pre/pro's that can?) Well the D2 is hdmi ver1.1 DG; quite expensive and the owners at avs are hoping for a firmware update [anthem are pretty good here].The trouble is that once the 24/96 or higher? bypasses the bitstream dts-es etc standard decoders we have now it goes to the post processing dsps and not straight to the dac's. As you can guess these post processing dsp's are not designed for 7.1 ; 6.1 discrete as you know is the max channel count currently To complicate matters these post dsp's can also be doing bass management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loser Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 yes there are some AVR's with HDMI that wont accept 8ch/7.1 LPCM, but there are plenty around that the manufacturers claim can. Which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 yes there are some AVR's with HDMI that wont accept 8ch/7.1 LPCM, but there are plenty around that the manufacturers claim can.Which? As I said in the first post tulkam ;I cant speak for all the different chip manufacturers like analog devices;cirrus logic and of course yamaha makes their own custom chips.Happened to go to sony.com and looked up the top of line 7100es and this one lists 8 channel through hdmi [they make a noise about blu ray compatability];so If digital amplification is ok ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 well now what did I say !hence its always best to wait and see with these things ratehr than speculate. now are all those that kept on posting re you dont need hdmi 1.3 going to eat their hats on the count of 3 ! whoa, thats a giant leap youve taken there al (and cwt) just because one pre/pro is found that cant, doesnt mean others wont and "HDMI 1.3 is the only solution" from what you have said cwt, the issue with the d2 sounds like its got nothing to do with HDMI, rather its the capability of the motorolla dsp chip. given that different manufacturers use different chips i think its drawing a pretty long bow to suggest none will work and HDMI 1.3 or analogue are the only answer. it doesnt suprise me at all that some HDMI equipped AVR's/pre-pro's (that were designed before BR / HD-DVD) will have issues, however most of the current crop of AVR's (eg yammy, pio, sony) adviertise being BR or HD DVD ready and accepting 8ch PCM - so id be suprised if they dont (havent tested it myself so cant say for sure), but if they dont, its a fault the manufacturer will have to fix or refund you (by law). so, i for one wont be eating my hat and still believe HDMI 1.3 is NOT necessary. but, i agree due to the unknown nature of much of this (and the fact that many manufacturers havent implemented all the features of the HDMI version they have put on their AVR's/pre-pro's), a "wait and see" approach has merit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 ~so, i for one wont be eating my hat and still believe HDMI 1.3 is NOT necessary. but, i agree due to the unknown nature of much of this (and the fact that many manufacturers havent implemented all the features of the HDMI version they have put on their AVR's/pre-pro's), a "wait and see" approach has merit hehe its only the unknown nature I'm talking about DG. ad hence the wait and see. who knows anyways even v1.3 might be a dabacle. we havent even seen anything with dts-hd as yet. but just have your hat at the ready in anycase hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACCA350 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 HDMI is not the issue. Taken from HDMI FAQ's site HDMI supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video, plus multi-channel digital audio on a single cable. It transmits all ATSC HDTV standards and supports 8-channel, 192kHz, uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD with bandwidth to spare to accommodate future enhancements and requirements. The issue is the players and receivers Toshiba HD-XE1(I'm not sure what firmware version these specs refer to or whether a firmware upgrade will add support for 7/8 channel output over HDMI) AUDIO SPECIFICATIONSDolby Digital...................yes (up to 5.1ch) Dolby Digital Plus............yes (up to 5.1ch) Dolby TRUE HD................yes (up to 5.1ch) DTS................................yes (up to 5.1ch) DTS-HD (core only)...........yes (up to 5.1ch) MPEG Audio.....................yes PCM................................yes (up to 5.1ch) According to the manual the only way to get 8 channel output over HDMI of the Sony BDPS1 is to play a 7.1 LPCM track. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 but just have your hat at the ready in anycase hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 whoa, thats a giant leap youve taken there al (and cwt) just because one pre/pro is found that cant, doesnt mean others wont and "HDMI 1.3 is the only solution" from what you have said cwt, the issue with the d2 sounds like its got nothing to do with HDMI, rather its the capability of the motorolla dsp chip. given that different manufacturers use different chips i think its drawing a pretty long bow to suggest none will work and HDMI 1.3 or analogue are the only answer. I hope your right DG ; but if you take a look again at the dts.com site where it traces the signal for hdmi ver1.1/2 you will see the bottleneck[the dsp before the dac's].As I said in the 1st post I cant speak for other chip manufacturers so I didnt suggest none would work.Motorola are one of the biggest chip manufacturers in the world so it would be wise to consider the different grades of chip too - some 24 bit ;some 32 bit; even denons 32 bit analog devices[shark] running in parallel. It just seems logical to me that a chip designed for 6.1 sound wont accept 7.1 and if it did wouldnt be able to apply PL11x to it like some people prefer with 6.1.As for the current crop [sony pio yamaha]your most likely right but that doesnt mean 7.1 will not be downgraded to 5.1 + your choice of synthesised back surround Again I fervently hope your right-this is to expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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