Denon 103 Owners & Discussion Thread

[Tobes]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38657[/ATTACH]

Mine with an Aluminium body before I ripped the cantilever off. It's going to New York sometime for a Soundsmith rebuild.

I think the Soundsmith retipped 103R is a super bargain.

I was going to pull the trigger on a Lyra Delos, but my Midas/SS 103R is sounding fantastic into the Choir Audio HM7 SUT.

Users of the regular 103R would be astonished at what this cartridge is capable of in regards to clarity, focus, speed and realistic presence.

I expect the Delos would take this further - but I'm a little nervous that it might not sync as well with my HM7. I'm loving the 103R on the +29dB setting - but I think I'd have too much gain with the Delos, which mean it would have to 'like' the +23dB (1:14).

If you're reading this Jasper, have you tried your Delos into an SUT with ~1:14 ratio?

[jaspert]

Yeh Jaspert, it is in Midas shell. I also got a Uwe body which i may have to change to mount onto Basis Vector.

Quan

That makes sense now. I have the heavy Midas body too and my Phantom 2 could just handle it but I'd found it to sound better on other heavier arms. I have an Uwe body too ( ebony) and slotting it in there should bring the mass down for the Vector.

[jaspert]

I think the Soundsmith retipped 103R is a super bargain.

I was going to pull the trigger on a Lyra Delos, but my Midas/SS 103R is sounding fantastic into the Choir Audio HM7 SUT.

Users of the regular 103R would be astonished at what this cartridge is capable of in regards to clarity, focus, speed and realistic presence.

I expect the Delos would take this further - but I'm a little nervous that it might not sync as well with my HM7. I'm loving the 103R on the +29dB setting - but I think I'd have too much gain with the Delos, which mean it would have to 'like' the +23dB (1:14).

If you're reading this Jasper, have you tried your Delos into an SUT with ~1:14 ratio?

Paul,

With my Delos, I prefer 30dB+ on both my SUT( 3 ohm tap) and Headamp into a low gain MM tube phonstage ( 37-38dB only).

[Tobes]

Paul,

With my Delos, I prefer 30dB+ on both my SUT( 3 ohm tap) and Headamp into a low gain MM tube phonstage ( 37-38dB only).

Well that's pretty much the same as my setup with the H7 on high gain - ie 29dB (3 ohm primary) into the Cary tube MM phono which has 38dB gain.

Using that setting with the 103R is fine as far as my overall system gain goes.

But the 103R is supposedly only 0.25mV output (the spec sheet for this particular cartridge says 0.3mV) and the Delos is 0.6mV.

I'm a bit worried the extra 6dB output will have me operating at the bottom of my preamp volume range (stepped volume control).

Using the +23dB setting (12 ohm primary) on the H7 should even up the output - but maybe it won't sound as good?

Sometimes cartridge specs are misleading - does your Delos sound a lot louder than the 103R?

EDIT: Actually I checked the Lyra site and they use the CBS test record (5cm/s) rather than the JVC (3.54cm/s) - so the Lyra may be more like .43mV(?)

Edited December 4, 2011 by Tobes

[Batty]

I had a 200 gramme counter weight made for me by AO to counter the body weight.

[eman]

Has anyone had a chance to compare a 103S with a 103R ?

Both seem to be an upgrade model.

I think the 103R is a spherical tip like the 103 but the 103S is a "Special Elliptical" (read 'fineline').

I have a 103S and don't really want to waste money on a 103R which isn't going any better.

[ozrayyau]

Jaspert,

How is the pre-pre amp? Keep it?

[metal beat]

Has anyone had a chance to compare a 103S with a 103R ?

Both seem to be an upgrade model.

I think the 103R is a spherical tip like the 103 but the 103S is a "Special Elliptical" (read 'fineline').

I have a 103S and don't really want to waste money on a 103R which isn't going any better.

The 103S is crap. I'll take it off your hands

seriously, the 103S has the reputation of being a superior cartridge to the 103R.

enjoy it

[handy steel]

Iv'e just recently purchased a 103R and I am really happy with its performance.

A question for jaspert! What timber would you recommend to fit to the 103R, if any?

[jaspert]

Jaspert,

How is the pre-pre amp? Keep it?

hi Oz,

Yes, keeping it but I haven't really tried it much yet. Too many other distractions at the moment.

[jaspert]

Iv'e just recently purchased a 103R and I am really happy with its performance.

A question for jaspert! What timber would you recommend to fit to the 103R, if any?

Hi Mark,

Best to ask Duc about it. It really depends on your personal preference ( sound and look too) and system balance.

I think Ebony will impart some warmth , sometimes too much as i have a Uwe body which I'm not using now. I like Cocoswood as it sound quite balance to my ears. Duc has some special edition body with pretty fancy wood.

Edited December 5, 2011 by jaspert

[jaspert]

Well that's pretty much the same as my setup with the H7 on high gain - ie 29dB (3 ohm primary) into the Cary tube MM phono which has 38dB gain.

Using that setting with the 103R is fine as far as my overall system gain goes.

But the 103R is supposedly only 0.25mV output (the spec sheet for this particular cartridge says 0.3mV) and the Delos is 0.6mV.

I'm a bit worried the extra 6dB output will have me operating at the bottom of my preamp volume range (stepped volume control).

Using the +23dB setting (12 ohm primary) on the H7 should even up the output - but maybe it won't sound as good?

Sometimes cartridge specs are misleading - does your Delos sound a lot louder than the 103R?

EDIT: Actually I checked the Lyra site and they use the CBS test record (5cm/s) rather than the JVC (3.54cm/s) - so the Lyra may be more like .43mV(?)

Hi Paul,

I use my retipped 103R and Delos on completely different setups with different phonostages so I can't give you any meaningful answer there. I don't think the Delos would cause any issue with excessive gain with your Choir SUT especially when your Cary phono is low gain MM.

[warren2503]

Thought I would order a 103R off ebay to see how they sound , iwth good resale it would be worth it just to try oit out and find what the fuss is about , ( after all I had the canterveler on my rhondo red broken by my kids )

anyway its getting delieverde by usps from teh states .

It has been sitting in Western Somoea since the 21/11- aaahhh frustrating wait)

[eman]

yes use your heavy headshell but only if your tonearm counter weight can balance it.

enjoy

Lovetube

OK, done thanks. Did have to wind the weight back a way but it's floating fine.

Don't know what it weighs tho til I get my scales going.

The 103S is crap. I'll take it off your hands

seriously, the 103S has the reputation of being a superior cartridge to the 103R.

enjoy it

Good news, thanks.

Am still wanting to tighten it up tho. I am running it against an Ortofon MC 15 Super II which is much more detailed.

Has anyone tried one of these 'stabilisers' ? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ISOkinetik-CARTRIDGE-STABILISER-DENON-103-DL-103R-/180431138406?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0288ae66

A bit scary seeing as it's a one-way trip with superglue !

I have a Denon headshell on the way but it looks like an average weight so I expect to add weight somehow anyway.

[eman]

The 103S is crap. I'll take it off your hands

seriously, the 103S has the reputation of being a superior cartridge to the 103R.

enjoy it

Actually, you might be in luck. Seriously. Watch this space. If I can't get it to sound how I want then this will be be the first place I list it.

[metal beat]

OK, done thanks. Did have to wind the weight back a way but it's floating fine.

Don't know what it weighs tho til I get my scales going.

Good news, thanks.

Am still wanting to tighten it up tho. I am running it against an Ortofon MC 15 Super II which is much more detailed.

Has anyone tried one of these 'stabilisers' ? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ISOkinetik-CARTRIDGE-STABILISER-DENON-103-DL-103R-/180431138406?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0288ae66

A bit scary seeing as it's a one-way trip with superglue !

I have a Denon headshell on the way but it looks like an average weight so I expect to add weight somehow anyway.

Your phoNo stage might not be the best match for the 103s. At 450uv sensitivity and 100 ohms loading it could be a lot better. Ie 250uv and around 400-500 ohms loading. A heavy headshell is better as well. Is the 103s new or used?

The Ortofon has higher output and better suited to 100 ohms loading so overall a lot better match to you phono stage

[warren2503]

Looks like Im going to go through the christmas period without my cartridge - Its still stuck in Western Somoea. No turntable over the holidays

[eman]

Your phoNo stage might not be the best match for the 103s. At 450uv sensitivity and 100 ohms loading it could be a lot better. Ie 250uv and around 400-500 ohms loading. A heavy headshell is better as well. Is the 103s new or used?

The Ortofon has higher output and better suited to 100 ohms loading so overall a lot better match to you phono stage

Mmm.. OK, thanks, good info.

V-LPS is my first phono stage, so working on a tight budget I went for a 'bang for the buck' approach. Am working on getting a discounted V-PSU to go with it, but that won't change the original circuit. So I should look for MC carts with high output or get a phono stage with adjustable output then (or only use Ortofons, hahaha) ? I was told Ortofon was a good match for it and that's all I had at the time so I went with it. Had to try a 103 of some type tho cos they are such a legend.

The 103S is pre-owned by our own 'ozrayyau'. I am getting a general low tone from it. The low notes are prodigious but it takes away from the detail. Tighten up the detail on the lows would be my first concern. Those 'stabilisers' claim to be able to do that a bit, and add threaded mounting holes too !

'Electricity' is a complete unknown to me. Is 'uv' micro-volts or milli-volts or something ?

[warren2503]

well my 103R arrived and has about 10 hours on it

I am really surprised how good it is . I would say its better than the ortofon rhono red it replaced

[cheekyboy]

Just got my DL103r back from ESC, but I'll wait till the the New Year before I fit it up. I'm more than happy with the performance of my standard DL103 that was modified by ESC earlier in the year.........it has settled in beautifully and is sounding sensational at the moment. I'll be keen to hear how much better, if any, the DL103r is going to be.

Cheers,

Keith

[nzdans]

Hey Keith, I'm sure many of us are looking forward to your review of the ESC 103 vs 103R; I certainly am as I haven't been able to find the motivation to switch back to my (woody) 103 after installing the 'R' so am wondering which cart I should send on holiday...

Cheers,

Dan.

[cheekyboy]

I've had my modded DL103r back from ESC just over a week today and I couldn't wait any longer to set it up and have a listen. I must say that it sounded really good from the first note and is still sounding very good indeed about three hours later. I can't imagine where any improvement could come from at the moment, but it will be interesting to see if I notice any subtle improvement as it approaches 30 - 50 hours of playing..........somehow I doubt that it will.

The standard DL103 had settled in nicely and was also sounding very sweet before I swapped it out this morning and if I'm hearing any difference between the two, it would be that perhaps that the DL103r has a slightly more enhanced top end, but really there is nothing in it. Having said that and if I was going to advise someone contemplating going down this upgrade path with a Denon DL103, post the modifications by ESC, I don't think the added expense of the DL103r is worth it. In both cases though the modification by ESC is sensational and more then worth the expense and the wait to get your cart back. Very highly recommended.:o

Cheers,

Keith

[jaspert]

According to Wyndham, there is hardly anything in it between his ESC retipped 103 and 103R. Difference between them is more obvious in stock form I think.

My retipped 103 must be idling at some Aus Post depot.

Edited December 28, 2011 by jaspert

[dirty]

I've had my modded DL103r back from ESC just over a week today and I couldn't wait any longer to set it up and have a listen. I must say that it sounded really good from the first note and is still sounding very good indeed about three hours later. I can't imagine where any improvement could come from at the moment, but it will be interesting to see if I notice any subtle improvement as it approaches 30 - 50 hours of playing..........somehow I doubt that it will.

The standard DL103 had settled in nicely and was also sounding very sweet before I swapped it out this morning and if I'm hearing any difference between the two, it would be that perhaps that the DL103r has a slightly more enhanced top end, but really there is nothing in it. Having said that and if I was going to advise someone contemplating going down this upgrade path with a Denon DL103, post the modifications by ESC, I don't think the added expense of the DL103r is worth it. In both cases though the modification by ESC is sensational and more then worth the expense and the wait to get your cart back. Very highly recommended.

Cheers,

Keith

Is this what we'll be listening to Keith, after all this talk it will be nice to here one. Were we listening to one at Mark's on his VPI?

I need to pay more attention.

dirty.

[handy steel]

Dirty, I am using a standard 103R, not an ESC upgrade.

I am considering having one of Duc's wooden bodies fitted to it.