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Info grabbed from Whirlpool forums & posted by Messiah:

Just got back from the Sony show at the horden pavillion today where they were displaying these... i have to say if sony get the price right they'll sell these suckers thru the roof.. amazing quality and with blu-ray it'd be the best thing ever...

pricing wasn't set but will be next week, due to lauch sometime soon.

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Yeah i asked the product manager and he said he wasn't sure if it was HDMI 1.3 but they do come with built in HD tuners. :blink:

Did anyone else go to this event? And be able to share anymore info.

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Info grabbed from Whirlpool forums & posted by Messiah:

Just got back from the Sony show at the horden pavillion today where they were displaying these... i have to say if sony get the price right they'll sell these suckers thru the roof.. amazing quality and with blu-ray it'd be the best thing ever...

pricing wasn't set but will be next week, due to lauch sometime soon.

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Yeah i asked the product manager and he said he wasn't sure if it was HDMI 1.3 but they do come with built in HD tuners. :blink:

Did anyone else go to this event? And be able to share anymore info.

Not that the HDMI 1.3 matters. Even if its 1.1 it can still accept 1080p signals... The only thing that HDMI 1.3 does is allow it to accept the higher bit rate and more channels of HD sound. O and the different connector. So who is gonna worry about getting HD sound to the panel.

Anyways, definately looking forward to their release. but they will be rediculously priced.

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Awesome news... I have been hanging for this display for months....

The guys over at the AVS forums say that these don't have HDMI 1.3 but I agree with Dritz - it's not actually of any value yet...

I'm off to London next week so I am hoping to see one in the flesh before it arrives here... very excited!

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40s shouldnt be too bad (hopefully)

The KDL-40XBR2 & XBR3 are 3500/3700 usd rrp.

If that's the going price in USD, I'm scared to see what the aussie price is going to be... We always pay more for our electrical goods than the yanks.

I'm sure the Sony is awesome, but I don't think it's *that* good to justify a $5-6k panel price for 40"

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Not that the HDMI 1.3 matters. Even if its 1.1 it can still accept 1080p signals... The only thing that HDMI 1.3 does is allow it to accept the higher bit rate and more channels of HD sound. O and the different connector.

Still I wouldnt mind a TV that has the latest tech in it for future complient HDMI 1.3 products. Such as the Playstation 3 which will probably the first device.

New HDMI 1.3 features:

*

Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.

*

Deep color: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

o

Lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors

o

Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors

o

Enables increased contrast ratio

o

Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, four times more shades of gray would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more

*

Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection.

o

Next-generation “xvYCC” color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals

o

Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately

o

Enables displays with more natural and vivid colors

*

New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.

*

Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy.

*

New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

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Deep color: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

o

Lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors

Hmm. Even a full 1920x1080 display only has 2 million pixels.

Every single pixel on the screen can be a different colour simultaneously.

Why the need for "billions" of colours?

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Any guesses what the 40" XBR will go for in Australia? I've noticed that the V and S series have been on sale, that should mean that the new models should be out soon. Any clue on release date?

And before anyone suggests it, I'm not buying the Samsung. That thing is hideous. As superficial as it might be, often my TV is off and I don't want to look at the ugly, gloss black, flying triangle. What was Samsung thinking?

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Hmm. Even a full 1920x1080 display only has 2 million pixels.

Every single pixel on the screen can be a different colour simultaneously.

Why the need for "billions" of colours?

Offshore, the benefit of >24bit colour depths is that it increases the range of available colours to choose from which allows for much more colour accurate images. If you were to limit the size of your colour palette to the number of simultaneous colours that can be displayed at one time what do you do when you want to show a colour that isn't available in your palette?

Imagine this situation: Part of an image is in deep shadow, while the rest of the image is very bright. With a smaller colour depth you have less unique shades of black to represent the shadowed part and less unique shades of white to represent the bright part. The result would be the dark shadowed area looking almost solid black with the rest of the image being almost solid white. Increasing the colour depth provides more blacks and more whites to choose from.

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Does anyone know the difference between the XBR2 & XBR3 - other than price; the comparison tool on the Sony site does not seem to show any difference.

The XBR3 has a black piano finish as opposed to the XBR2 which has a removable bezel which is in a range of colours.

In the US, they are identical appart from from the warranty.

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Yes lots of new Sony stuff coming in the next few months. All of their new panels were listed in the brochure they handed out at their event as October, though im not sure how definite that is. No prices yet. New S and V series also.

S series is now with dark grey/black finish, still no HDMI input (that i saw) and no inbuilt tuner. V series now has inbuilt HD tuner, as well as the X series, which has the floating glass design from their old plasmas.

I think the V series is the one to go for, should come in at a better price than the current hopefully. The S series is still underspecced.

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Yes lots of new Sony stuff coming in the next few months. All of their new panels were listed in the brochure they handed out at their event as October, though im not sure how definite that is. No prices yet. New S and V series also.

S series is now with dark grey/black finish, still no HDMI input (that i saw) and no inbuilt tuner. V series now has inbuilt HD tuner, as well as the X series, which has the floating glass design from their old plasmas.

I think the V series is the one to go for, should come in at a better price than the current hopefully. The S series is still underspecced.

Actually the new S series does have HDMI. Saw it on the back of the panel with my own eyes.

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And before anyone suggests it, I'm not buying the Samsung. That thing is hideous. As superficial as it might be, often my TV is off and I don't want to look at the ugly, gloss black, flying triangle. What was Samsung thinking?

See, that's where it all comes down to taste. To me, the Samsung R series TVs are the FIRST decent-looking LCDs I've seen. While most of the other manufacturers continue to indulge their 1970s silver-and-chrome fetish, Samsung is offering something different for once. And I love it.

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This is great news I too have been waiting for months for this to come out. I am sure they will release soon in time for Christmas. I think on pricing the 46 is expensive but I am sure that they will release 40 and 37' models at a more reasonable price, and at the end of the day they are in a very competitive market, no matter is the panel is that good people wont buy if they feel that it is overpriced

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at the end of the day they are in a very competitive market, no matter is the panel is that good people wont buy if they feel that it is overpriced

The day Sony Australia finally realises that fact, hell will freeze over.

I'm betting they still don't put digital tuners in this new batch.

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The day Sony Australia finally realises that fact, hell will freeze over.

I'm betting they still don't put digital tuners in this new batch.

I'd be glad if they didn't put a tuner in it. Chances are that it will lack functionality/connectivity and I'd prefer to get a dedicated STB/PVR/DVDR...

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Just think of it as a bonus.

... that is an added cost, making the panel more expensive than one without a tuner.

What's the point of paying for something you don't want/need and that is hobbled with the inability to output video?

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... that is an added cost, making the panel more expensive than one without a tuner.

What's the point of paying for something you don't want/need and that is hobbled with the inability to output video?

a very valid point. And one that neon kitten should probably ponder :blink:

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... that is an added cost, making the panel more expensive than one without a tuner.

What's the point of paying for something you don't want/need and that is hobbled with the inability to output video?

Trust me, you are a minority in terms of customers who would / would not prefer an integrated tuner. And if you are buying a screen like this, it will really only be costing a couple of hundred dollars extra than it would have without the tuner.

Integrated tuners help sell panels nowdays, you cant blame companies for doing it.

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Trust me, you are a minority

I don't doubt that - there is not a high percentage of ppl building/using HTPCs.

Integrated tuners help sell panels nowdays, you cant blame companies for doing it.

It makes perfect sense to include them, I blame companies for doing it in half-arsed manner. The whole concept of having an internal tuner that can't output the video is just so backwards I can't believe they released it with such a "defect".

It is a reasonable expectation, like any TV i've had for the last 20 years, that it will output the video and audio to another device for recording. It seems that many with integrated tuners *don't* off this feature and I'm sure will come as a shock to the "mums and dads" who bought the tv with an integrated tuner for simplicity. Not surprisingly they will want to record what they are watching and what happens then? They CAN'T.

That sort of limitation is just not acceptable for a $2-3k TV IMHO.

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I don't doubt that - there is not a high percentage of ppl building/using HTPCs.

It makes perfect sense to include them, I blame companies for doing it in half-arsed manner. The whole concept of having an internal tuner that can't output the video is just so backwards I can't believe they released it with such a "defect".

It is a reasonable expectation, like any TV i've had for the last 20 years, that it will output the video and audio to another device for recording. It seems that many with integrated tuners *don't* off this feature and I'm sure will come as a shock to the "mums and dads" who bought the tv with an integrated tuner for simplicity. Not surprisingly they will want to record what they are watching and what happens then? They CAN'T.

That sort of limitation is just not acceptable for a $2-3k TV IMHO.

Well no, actually I dont think it is too much of a problem. How many people with analog TVs actually used a monitor output to pipe out the TV signal to another recording device. I dont know anyone who had used it that way. The only problem with people wanting to record their DIGITAL TV signal is that the recording hardware does not contain digital tuners yet. Once the coming HDD/DVD/Digital recorders start appearing toward the end of the year, this will be less of a problem. Because even if a set does output the digital signal (like the JVC 32" LCD) you still need to keep the TV tuned to that channel, so it doesnt give you that much flexibility.

Whenever I sell a TV with an integrated tuner, I make sure everyone knows that you cant output the digital signal to their current DVD/HDD recorder. Then I try and sell them a PVR :blink:

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... that is an added cost, making the panel more expensive than one without a tuner.

What's the point of paying for something you don't want/need and that is hobbled with the inability to output video?

The thing is, when they are integrated into the screen and mass produced, the added cost is minimal (in the order of $20).

Case in point, the R71 Samsungs, a better screen than the M61 series, its predecessor of only a few months, yet it has a lower street price and includes the addition of an integrated tuner. LG has also latched on to this, included DTV tuners with just about everything and still undercutting the competition. JVC and toshiba are also now going integrated.

Also - the screen you buy now may not always be your main screen. It may end up becoming a bedroom or kids rumpus room tv. And then you will appreciate the built in DTV tuner.

Plus an extra digital tuner can never go astray in any setup. There may always be a situation where you really want to record one channel, or even two channel on your DTV Tuner/PVR, and simultaneously watch something live to air on another channel. The extra tuner in your TV gives you that extra option.

It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

I really think you guys are making too much of this.

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I just don't get these people jumping up and down about their tvs not having outputs for the digital signal. How many people want to watch the same thing they are recording? :blink: I thought the whole idea of a recorder was to record it for watching later while watching something else in the meantime. Don't these people realise that their idea would actually be a step backwards from a vcr?

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I just don't get these people jumping up and down about their tvs not having outputs for the digital signal. How many people want to watch the same thing they are recording? :blink: I thought the whole idea of a recorder was to record it for watching later while watching something else in the meantime. Don't these people realise that their idea would actually be a step backwards from a vcr?

Its called timeshifting.. Welcome to the new millenium :D

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Its called timeshifting.. Welcome to the new millenium :blink:

Sounds like somebody jumped too soon and bought a dvd-r with analogue tuner, sounds like somebody is stuck in the last millenium..... :D

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I just don't get these people jumping up and down about their tvs not having outputs for the digital signal. How many people want to watch the same thing they are recording? :blink: I thought the whole idea of a recorder was to record it for watching later while watching something else in the meantime. Don't these people realise that their idea would actually be a step backwards from a vcr?

The point is, for your average punter out there, they want to buy a tv with an integrated *digital* tuner so they get their quality widescreen FTA. They don't *have* any other equipment apart from a DVD player (or perhaps a recorder) and a VCR.

Then when they want to record their wonderful looking tv show, in widescreen and flawless digital quality, they CAN'T. They have to go to their VCR or DVD Recorder and record the show they want to record in *analogue* - no widescreen, and particularly if you're in a fringe area for analogue, very poor quality.

Since you already have the ability to watch high quality digital, widescreen reception, the concept that you can't record that high quality signal on a VCR or DVD Recorder is just absurd. How hard is that to understand?

The idea of buying a tv with an integrated digital tuner is so you *don't* have to go and buy a digital STB or a PVR - but with these tvs that have integrated digital tuners without output options, you literally have to go and buy another piece of equipment to record in the same high quality that you can watch.

I'd note that this is not the way I operate - I have a HTPC so this isn't an issue for me personally, but I have friends and family that I have setup AV equipment for and SIMPLICITY is the key.

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Then when they want to record their wonderful looking tv show, in widescreen and flawless digital quality, they CAN'T.

Tell me, what would they record it on? A dvd recorder? So buy a dvd recorder with digital tuner. Soon all dvd-rs will have them, problem solved.

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Once the coming HDD/DVD/Digital recorders start appearing toward the end of the year, this will be less of a problem.

Agreed, I've been waiting for these to come along for a long, long time now. I'm very surprised they haven't turned up well before now, but I understand it's primarily because Australia is a small market for the equipment manufacturers and adding the DVB-T tuner specific to Australia is/was not cost-effective.

Tell me, what would they record it on? A dvd recorder? So buy a dvd recorder with digital tuner. Soon all dvd-rs will have them, problem solved.

A VCR - or DVD recorder - connected via analogue.

You're also forgetting a simple fact here - your average mum and dad don't want to go out and buy yet another box they have a remote control for, have to read the manual to learn how to use, etc etc etc. They already have a VCR or DVD Recorder, why should they have to go and buy yet another box to replace one that works perfectly well, just to fix their brand spankin new TV's shortcoming???

It is an added outlay of $$$ just to do something they quite rightly believe they should have been able to do in the first place (that is, record the widescreen DTV to their VCR/DVD Recorder).

You're right that once dvd-rs with digital tuners inbuilt become available, all this will become a lot easier. It still doesn't excuse the fact, however, that manufacturers are handicapping a feature on their integrated tvs that many average users expect to be there.

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You're also forgetting a simple fact here - your average mum and dad don't want to go out and buy yet another box they have a remote control for, have to read the manual to learn how to use, etc etc etc. They already have a VCR or DVD Recorder, why should they have to go and buy yet another box to replace one that works perfectly well, just to fix their brand spankin new TV's shortcoming???

Sure, I can hear the mums and dads now....."What, you mean I can't record channel 7 and watch channel 9? Even my vcr could do that!" Sorry, but those who bought analogue tuner dvd-rs need to take their medicine and get into the new age. There is no way around it. Your idea is simply not functional enough for Mr. and Mrs. Average.

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Sorry, but those who bought analogue tuner dvd-rs need to take their medicine and get into the new age.

:blink: So your fix is for them to spend yet more money on a PVR when they were told they wouldn't need an STB because their tv has one built in?

The "new age" where there are dvd recorders that *aren't* analogue still isn't here mate.

There is no way around it. Your idea is simply not functional enough for Mr. and Mrs. Average.

I hate to break it to you, but your idea is far from functional either (apart from the sparkling idea to spend more money!)

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