Velodyne Subwoofers Owners Thread

[betty boop]

It would appear that Eastwood Hifi don't think much of it:

"Latest "bullshit" product on the market - Velodyne's SMS-1 Bass Management System for subwoofers. It's supposed to correct the frequency response to be accurate within the room in which it is being used. Yeh, right, like its going to fix standing wave problems? They are the biggest creators of problems in relation to low frequency reproduction that we have to contend with. There is no answer to the standing wave issue apart from moving the position of either the subwoofer "

This was found on the HiFi Gossip page Link

each to their own. Velodyne them selves suggest loaction is most important and infact its the first thing to get right. They even suggest a simple way of fining the best location. putting the sub where in the seating location and walkign around the room with the mike in likely locations to find the one with the best response.

My sub location is probably not the most ideal given a lounge room setup. But think its actually the sms-1 feature of the sub thats helping me get the most of it.

I saw the response it has without any eq. without it the room eq'ing feature I'd have no hope in hell doing much about it. I've also found in invaluable for getting the best integration with my mains.

[Foggy]

There was one very pertinent quote in the Audioholics review...

Consumers who think they can toss their subwoofer anywhere and use the SMS-1 to sort out the pieces will be disappointed with the results. Those who understand that the SMS-1 will allow them to make adjustments to subwoofer placement, room treatments and then dial in the subwoofer for those final touches are sure to be very pleased indeed.

[MrGadget]

WARNING this clip is 2.3Mb

Black Hawk Down F**K Irene video clip. My apologies to the owner of this clip, I have no idea who you are.

BTW this is the 15” Adire Tumult driver the same as I use and this scene is one of the few to get the driver to actually move some distance. Those are passive radiators on the side of the box.

Thanks to JohnA for hosting the file….

Hmm, I get sound but no video?

[Foggy]

Hmm, I get sound but no video?

Try downloading the VLC player as it has most of the common codecs built in. It's very easy to use and outputs great PQ.

[Spearmint]

It would appear that Eastwood Hifi don't think much of it:

"Latest "bullshit" product on the market - Velodyne's SMS-1 Bass Management System for subwoofers. It's supposed to correct the frequency response to be accurate within the room in which it is being used. Yeh, right, like its going to fix standing wave problems? They are the biggest creators of problems in relation to low frequency reproduction that we have to contend with. There is no answer to the standing wave issue apart from moving the position of either the subwoofer "

This was found on the HiFi Gossip page Link

I liken the SMS1 to the auto EQ’s that are now appearing in the newer processors. They are a reasonable tool for the hobbyist and an aid for the enthusiast. Let’s face it how many people have HT setups that sound absolutely crap and yet they are probably more than happy with it. I believe anything is better than nothing and something’s are best left to the experts.

The average Joe is not going to spend money on room treatments let alone take the time to setup their equipment properly, the addition of these aids is a great marketing tool to steer people into purchasing the product IMO.

[jayson]

Don't get me wrong I am all for EQing. Since I got my BFD I can't be happier with the bass.

It is too true not everyone is going to be able to place their sub in the ideal position or bother / allowed to use room treatments. If a device improves the sound for the user then that is all that matters.

I also forgot to add in my previous post congratulations Al on the purchase of such an impressive piece of kit.

[betty boop]

thanks Krix,

guess I can see three camps here..

1. People who really can't give a rats about this kind of gear, get the sub, park it in the right spot and 'steve at eastwoods' is your uncle !

2. Guys like me who like the userfriendliness of sms and expecially the total integrated nature of it when it comes part an parcel with the DDs and hink the sms is quite enough to achieve needs.

3. Guys that appreciate the value of these systems and are bit more into it all and want to go whole hog with BFDs and more soffisticated software/gear and want the greater adjustability and control/tweakability.

each to their own as I said and good that we have the choice.

I'm not sure of the value for money of the SMS units here, and its no doubt that velodyne is sellign it here for much more than its real worth when its not part of their sub systems. But if I had got a different sub eg a paradigm servo 15 that does not come with a sms type device, then a sms is probably what I'd get again given my experience of it. But ofcourse I'd work damn hell with the arm twisting to make sure I got it for what I think is its real worth.

RE room EQ in avrs I don't honestly think it belongs there. I've experienced some of the systems coming with avrs eg the HK's and theyre not a patch on the capabilities of the SMS. Theyre an auto everything with very little of the adjsutability of the likes of sms and wiht very little of the visibility of whats going on or whats happening. Think theyre probably still very much in their infancy. Anyways not sure want to be throwing out my room eq and starting again everytime I upgrade/replace my avr.

[betty boop]

Well given pretty satisfied with the DDs perfomance on HT & music DVS I finally got the DD up and going for 2ch. I used a pretty simple method as described here

Given I've already put quite a bit of effort in blending my mains with the sub for a desired system response all I needed to do with this method of setup was set the sub level to taste when playing with my 2ch setup.

Found -10db on the avr vol was about the right level, any more and tend to start getting some localisation with the sub. Where its at at the moment seems to give a nice psolid punchy sound that goes nice and low. And no impact on the topend, mids and the way my mains are voiced/sound which I'm very happy about.

Again the way I've set it is extremely subtle, though you notice the difference the subs making if you mute it. Music like nitin sawhneys- Beyond skin & angelique kidjo- oremi the bass on those go low low low ! so very happy with the results and think its given for 2ch my mains a new lease of life.

[norpus]

Good to hear you are so pleased Al, and yes your sub did sound great to me too. Very low and fullsome.

I like the sms analyser and how easy it is to set up

Then to watch it doing live sweeps during music is quite an extra treat

[betty boop]

Good to hear you are so pleased Al, and yes your sub did sound great to me too. Very low and fullsome.

I like the sms analyser and how easy it is to set up

Then to watch it doing live sweeps during music is quite an extra treat

thankyou norpus, great to hear you liked the sound of it. Good to get someone else's perspective on it as can get a bit caught up in in all.

Your IB I think is still the ultimate way to go but unfortunately for many reasons just wasn't a practical reality for me. The DD is the next best thing I reckon. Infact at this point if I hadn't gone with the DD, considering all the other options, I have no idea what else I would have gone for ! . Happy so far how things have turned out especially on 2ch given all the unknowns/uncertainties and questions I had to start with.

[Foggy]

Interestingly, Velodyne has just announced the SPL-1500R.

It would be interesting to hear how this non-Servo sub stacks up against the DD-15. I think I could live without the SMS functionality, but the servo to reduce distortion might make a big difference from what I've read so far. I'd love to be able to do an A/B comparison to see how much difference it makes.

[norpus]

Interestingly, Velodyne has just announced the SPL-1500R.

It would be interesting to hear how this non-Servo sub stacks up against the DD-15. I think I could live without the SMS functionality, but the servo to reduce distortion might make a big difference from what I've read so far. I'd love to be able to do an A/B comparison to see how much difference it makes.

I am sure the dealer could arrange a demo of this somehow - would be a good thing to differentiate the servo sub and likely to sell more of them

I am sure there would also be a few reviews on the net that have done this already. Al?

[betty boop]

Interestingly, Velodyne has just announced the SPL-1500R.

It would be interesting to hear how this non-Servo sub stacks up against the DD-15. I think I could live without the SMS functionality, but the servo to reduce distortion might make a big difference from what I've read so far. I'd love to be able to do an A/B comparison to see how much difference it makes.

hi foggy not sure about other peoples thoughts on this, but I personally think A/B testing with subs is tough. I've come a long way in setup in the week I've had my DD. I'd hate to be making judgements on its capabilities in the 1st 1/2 hr I had it. And unfortunately with salesman instore thats about what you get. I personally think you'd need a weekend better still a week with a sub to come to any conclusions about its true abilities.

In my instore demoing of the DD range the salesman even had the cheek to openly say that he'd not done any setup on it, jsut pulled it out the box and plonked it in place. On my demos' of the mighty REL sub the salesman dragged it into the ht demo room and fired it up and going without one bit of adjustment and then we proceded to drag it across to the 2ch room where again it just got hooked up without even a check of levels or adjustments nothing. And this experience is at two specialist stores. What hope is there for a proper A/B comparison with this kind of setup effort ? I'm quite convinced the guys are either not interested in setting up a sub properly or don't know how to.

About the only idea I can think might give you some clues in regards how the servo control impacts the sound is to get the sales guy to play some music on a DD with max servo control(16,000 samples per second) and then get him to switch the servo control to the loosest setting(5000 samples per second). I personally could not live with the looser controlled soudn for music. Though the distortion probably adds to the excitement for movies.

Another alternative as suggested by norpus is to check the net, might suggest checking avs forum and maybe even post in a thread such as this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....34&page=2&pp=30

there are some quite knowledgeable guys posting there who might have some real expereince in comparison between the velodyne servo vs non servo subs.

[ozcal]

hi foggy not sure about other peoples thoughts on this, but I personally think A/B testing with subs is tough. I've come a long way in setup in the week I've had my DD. I'd hate to be making judgements on its capabilities in the 1st 1/2 hr I had it. And unfortunately with salesman instore thats about what you get. I personally think you'd need a weekend better still a week with a sub to come to any conclusions about its true abilities.

In my instore demoing of the DD range the salesman even had the cheek to openly say that he'd not done any setup on it, jsut pulled it out the box and plonked it in place. On my demos' of the mighty REL sub the salesman dragged it into the ht demo room and fired it up and going without one bit of adjustment and then we proceded to drag it across to the 2ch room where again it just got hooked up without even a check of levels or adjustments nothing. And this experience is at two specialist stores. What hope is there for a proper A/B comparison with this kind of setup effort ? I'm quite convinced the guys are either not interested in setting up a sub properly or don't know how to.

About the only idea I can think might give you some clues in regards how the servo control impacts the sound is to get the sales guy to play some music on a DD with max servo control(16,000 samples per second) and then get him to switch the servo control to the loosest setting(5000 samples per second). I personally could not live with the looser controlled soudn for music. Though the distortion probably adds to the excitement for movies.

Another alternative as suggested by norpus is to check the net, might suggest checking avs forum and maybe even post in a thread such as this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....34&page=2&pp=30

there are some quite knowledgeable guys posting there who might have some real expereince in comparison between the velodyne servo vs non servo subs.

.Interesting comments on your instore experiences Al.Was this a booked demo or did you just pop in.I don't think we can expect too much on a casual visit particularly with regard to high -end equipment.If this was a booked demonstration then it doesen't say too much for the stores you visited or at least the members of staff you dealt with.

Back in the day in the good old u.k. all our demos were booked and consequently the equipment was always setup & calibrated before the customer arrived.With the advent of quality home theater it seems to have become less fashionable to setup individual systems so much as to have everything connected through comparators for "conveinient" demonstration.I am told that modern comparators are transparent (I find this hard to believe) and so everything can be connected and comparisons should be made "quick&easy" with everything left premanently in situ and calibrated for that position.To my way of thinking this form of demonstration may be fine for non-enthusiast buyers who want quality equipment but are not overly demanding or informed but for the rest of us a home demo really is the only worthwhile demonstration ,particularly with subs.

Imo any shop that can't or won't cater for home demonstration at this sort of price level is not 'Specialist' ,they may sell quality equipment but that alone doesn't make them worthy of the title.

From the consumers point of view shop demonstrations of any expensive speakers are a waste of time.To my way of thinking comparisons made in a different acoustic enviroment from your own music/ht room are totally invalid even if the shop is otherwise able to replicate your system and musical tastes.Some may say that instore demos are a good way to create a short list however your shortlist may then exclude items that may have been outstanding in the home enviroment.

So what I am saying is once you begin to leave mid-priced equipment behind don't expect to get definitive demonstrations in-store having said that by the sounds of it Al ,even minimum standards are not being met these days.

Gordon

[betty boop]

they were both booked demos gordon. I don't do it any other way. I don't like to waste my time and plus I don't like to turn up and find either the gear not hooked up/warmed up or ready to go or the store to busy with staff too busy to assist etc.

Both dealers were quite specific and confirmed that the subs in question were hooked up to demo as required.

I mostly don't bother with instore demos these days. There are some good specialist stores that lend you gear to try out over a weekend or overnight. I too believe that is the only way you can get any true idea of how it will go in your context of room, system and music to make sure to your taste and spend enough quality time with it to find if it gives you what your looking for.

With subs particularly the top end ones you'll struggle to find anyone to lend you one let alone even have one instock to even demo instore.

ps I should add in relation to the salesman at one of the store I actually beleive he is the owner and have vowed never to set foot in that store given the shocking sales maner of the guy, every two minutes he kept asking me when I was going to buy one and whether I'd buy one if he got one in. Never come across such shockign pushy sales manner in the 20 years or so of visiting specialist hifi stores infact you don't even get that kind of thing with your average chain store. To also top all that the guy thought he was being really helpfull in telling me how to use the sub for 2ch by suggesting I hook it upto a tape out on the avr or 2ch pre - now good thing I never did that or could have blown the beejeesus out of any sub I did that with !

probably also should add in the other specialist store when demoing for HT, the guy could not even get the picture up on the screen they had there, in the end he ended up demoing with a squashed yellow picture and that was after the on site geek came and had a fiddle with the settings.

in many cases yes what you'd call minimum standards in my opinion are certainly not being met.

[Guest JohnA]

I tend to agree with Al, that most stores can't be bothered seting them up correctly.

When i was shopping for my speakers, 1 store couldn't even be bothered plugging it up, needless to say i didn't buy anything from them (and they were a high end store)

another store plugged it in turned the volume up and that was it, most others were the same, didn't bother adjusting any settings or making an effort.

Makes it very hard to properly audition subs let alon doing comparisons

[ozcal]

I tend to agree with Al, that most stores can't be bothered seting them up correctly.

When i was shopping for my speakers, 1 store couldn't even be bothered plugging it up, needless to say i didn't buy anything from them (and they were a high end store)

another store plugged it in turned the volume up and that was it, most others were the same, didn't bother adjusting any settings or making an effort.

Makes it very hard to properly audition subs let alon doing comparisons

I think most so called specialist stores are these days focussed on clients with "loadsa dosh" but no real idea when it comes to the equpment or as one put it audiophile customers are generally a pita.Now obviously I don't subscribe to the pita comment but from my own experience we by nature place greater demands on a stores manpower & equipment resources however I have always felt it worthwhile to cater to the different requirments of audiophile customers for as most of us know we are the ones that our friends & acquaintances come to when they are being driven round the bend by the contradictory nonsense handed out by most shops these days.

While most shops carry out sales training very few have programs dealing with the basics of set-up & calibration or even how to get the best out of the equipment in a dem room situation.Back in the days of stereo it wasn't too difficult to set up a demonstration on a system by system comparison basis ,manually changing out components but with the complexities of ht, comparitors have perhaps become a necessary evil.The major problem with comparitors is that they are not totally transparent and that they tend to minimise differences between components.Another problem with comparitors ,as relates to speakers , is that if you have multiple sets of 5.1 ch setups on display how many of these speakers will be properly sited. with regards to boundary effects ,imaging etc.

There are probably only a few real specialist dealers sprinkled over Australia but I would imagine that these will be of the one/two man operation type which will not be able to offer the sort of discounts that most of us have been taught to expect these days.Usually the best type of shops to deal with are the smaller single or double outlet retailers where the owner is an enthusiast and still works on the sales floor.As buisness start to grow the original ethos tends to become diluted due to the need to delegate and increased importance of financial management versus customer service.

Gordon

[Metter]

I liken the SMS1 to the auto EQ’s that are now appearing in the newer processors. They are a reasonable tool for the hobbyist and an aid for the enthusiast. Let’s face it how many people have HT setups that sound absolutely crap and yet they are probably more than happy with it. I believe anything is better than nothing and something’s are best left to the experts.

The average Joe is not going to spend money on room treatments let alone take the time to setup their equipment properly, the addition of these aids is a great marketing tool to steer people into purchasing the product IMO.

Hi guys,

I am new here so I amnot sure how to do this right. I have a DD15 which I brought with me when I moved back from the US. Much to my surprise that when I asked if I can have the voltage converted, I was informed that, not only does the voltage get changed, I have to repalce the amp as well inside. After a few hundreds of dollars, I thought I better askyou guys for a bit of help to set this DD15.

I have a Yamaha RXV2095 ( I think), it's similar to the DSP 1 in many regards - not as good. Can any one advice me the best way to connect to the Amp? I followed the instruction book that was provided but I don't think I am getting the best results. At the moment I have just output from the amp a single RCA into the two ports that is on the DD. Can any one point in the right direction please?

Thanking you all for your assistance.

[betty boop]

Hi guys,

I am new here so I amnot sure how to do this right. I have a DD15 which I brought with me when I moved back from the US. Much to my surprise that when I asked if I can have the voltage converted, I was informed that, not only does the voltage get changed, I have to repalce the amp as well inside. After a few hundreds of dollars, I thought I better askyou guys for a bit of help to set this DD15.

I have a Yamaha RXV2095 ( I think), it's similar to the DSP 1 in many regards - not as good. Can any one advice me the best way to connect to the Amp? I followed the instruction book that was provided but I don't think I am getting the best results. At the moment I have just output from the amp a single RCA into the two ports that is on the DD. Can any one point in the right direction please?

Thanking you all for your assistance.

hi metter,

hehehe interesting on the conversion to get it over here.

hooking up is as per the manual. just run one single rca from LFE output on the AVR to the Right channel LFE in on the sub. You can also run a Y cable as you are and that should the same thing too.

[norpus]

why not just a stepup transformer? others use them here with their US amps?

[Metter]

why not just a stepup transformer? others use them here with their US amps?

I did checked the price of the transformer. Two problems. The watts was not enough and by the time I get to the watt requirement, it was just as expensive. I thought, might as well get the real thing.

Thanks for the reply, yes I did end up with the Y cable.

[zorg1503559539]

sorry to butt in there is a DD-15 on ebay at the moment......

[betty boop]

you mean this one zorg?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Velodyne-DD-15-4-000-S...1QQcmdZViewItem

theres also a DD12

http://cgi.ebay.com/Velodyne-DD-12-Subwoof...1QQcmdZViewItem

for the price that both are going for it would be cheaper to buy one here new than to get those shipped over and converted.

there is this HGS velodyne going on ebay in oz

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VELODYNE-HGS-15-HIG...1QQcmdZViewItem

its not a DD but its the HGS-15 high gain servo model from a few years ago. which is this in the current incarnation...

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/...=6&sid=410i167i

its servo only has analog control with a much slower sampling rate though it might be still a better option than the non servo velodynes I'd say. Its a bit old though at 4 years old, god knows what life its had in that time. You'd want to give somethign like that a good demo

[Spearmint]

Wow 8,000 posts Alebonau!

[betty boop]

Wow 8,000 posts Alebonau!

oooh never realised ! hehehe