Jump to content

Which antennae(s) for difficult Glenning Valley?


Recommended Posts

G'day All,

I have been reading through the posts regarding TV reception on the Central Coast in various suburbs from various transmitters, and have read through quite a few of your posts - particularly lesftp, Alanh, TerryA. Thanks heaps for your advice.

I am in Glenning Valley, (Glenning Rd - just south of Andersen Rd) and would like to improve my TV reception further.

I have replaced all the aging single-shielded coax with RG6 quad shield which made a big difference.

I currently have what I think is a UHF phased array:

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~dsoede/soede/...phase_array.jpg (For some reason the IMG insert didn't work for me despite correct syntax - new member limits perhaps? )

a flat grid with X elements in front of it pointing north to what I think is a Newcastle transmitter. It certainly gives me NBN and Prime 7 and SC10 with TV ads from Newcastle.

Until reading through these posts I was unaware there was even a Wyong transmitter.

Being in the actual valley of Glenning Valley I doubt I could pick up Forries (Wyrrabalung?) or Gosford. I have no line of sight and suspect I'm in a big hill shadow. But if it was possible, I'd be stoked.

I have a DGTEC 2000A HD STB which gets orange and low green for NBN, SBS & ABC, orange or just below for Prime7 which is always watchable without pixellation, and hardly any strength on SC10's signal which constantly breaks up and pixellates.

My goals are:

1) Improve the signal strength and reception from (presumed) the Newcastle transmitter, perhaps by replacing the Phased Array with a Yagi style, eg a Jaycar 91 element (LT-3812) 19db gain, or the Hill equivalent TMX18 B5, or maybe a bigger/better Phased Array eg EE06 or Hill equivalent Super Hunter FB603780.

2) Pickup a local transmitter eg Forries, Gosford or Wyong (?) with the current antennae, or a new one as per above, if needed.

3) If 2) is possible, combine signals so I can watch Sydney's channel 9 HDTV with DD when transmitted, or NBN (eg when Sydney 9 doesn't transmit cricket from SCG but NBN does).

4) Put the VHF antennae back up (I removed as part of my testing for improvements) to pickup analog NBN in case I can't get a local transmitter tuned, so my VCR can record NBN.

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~dsoede/soede/...HF_antennae.jpg

5) Receive local FM radio stations, hopefully via the VHF antennae, otherwise buy another antennae. I have a GME Kingray "diplexor" (I think that's what it's called from reading posts here? )

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~dsoede/soede/...ay_diplexor.jpg

6) Lastly, and certainly minor, the ability to pickup AM radio eg ABC 702 so I can listen to cricket broadcasts.

Thanks very much for any suggestions!

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Apprentice GM,

The phased array is the best antenna to use unless you are having ghosting problems. Don't buy a 91 element antenna it can make your reception worse.

Wyong

Analog ABHN42 SBS39 ATN60 TCN63 TEN66 NBN 69NEN 30 NRN 33

Digital (2)37 (3)38 (7)61 (9)62 (1)65 (8)68 (6)29, (5)35 Spare 59 56

Wyrrabalong Trig Station WYONG 1.25 kW power each (digital)

These transmitters are vertically polarised so you will have to rotate the antenna by 90 degrees in the vertical plane. (The grid will be vertical) where as for Newcastle it is horizontal. The Newcastle digital transmitters are 500 kW.

Coverage area http://www2b.abc.net.au/reception/frequenc...d=5465&presdir=

http://www2b.abc.net.au/reception/frequenc...d=3567&presdir=

Forget Gosford, it is low powered.

Your existing UHF antenna should be adequate for either transmitter sites.

Your existing antennas are not suitable for receiving Sydney You need a Hills CA16 on a tall mast. A masthead amplifier is also required. However you will notice it is repeated on the Wyong translators.

The FM radio question is difficult because I need to know if they are in the same direction from your place.

Gosford

2PNN 92.5 National M OD 200 W

2SNR 93.3 Community M OD 2kW

2CCH 94.1 Community M OD 2kW

2GCB 94.9 Community M OD 2kW

2CCC 96.3 Community M OD 2kW

2BL 98.1 National M OD 200 W

2CFM 101.3 Commercial M OD 16kW

2GOS 104.5 Commercial M OD 16kW

2GGO 107.7 Commercial M OD 16kW

Newcastle

2JJJ 102.1 National M OD 80k

2KKO 102.9 Commercial M DA 20k

2NUR 103.7 Community M DA 10k

2NEW 105.3 Commercial M DA 20k

2ABCFM 106.1 National M OD 80k

2XXX 106.9 Commercial M DA 20k

Lastly the photo you have of the diplexer is also a masthead amplifier. I need to know its model number before I can comment further

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks for your advice Alanh - I recall you helping me before on something too - most appreciated :blink:

I thought the Forresters Beach transmitter (Wyrrabalong) was low powered at 1.25 KW compared to Newcastle at 500 KW - what does Gosford do to be even lower than Forresters? :P

I'm not trying to actually receive direct transmissions from Sydney, more the repeated Sydney stations from Forresters Beach (Wyrrabalong) plus the Newcastle ones (cricket needs).

I am NW of Wyrrabalong about 5kms, so my antennae will point back SE, and unfortunatley Gosford is more SW from me. Can you pick up FM transmissions from a VHF or UHF antennae OK? If so, is it highly directional?

I got a reply from TerryA yesterday so at this stage I think I will try using my existing wisi EE06 to pickup Wyrrabalong for UHF, which gives me NBN Newcastle re-transmitted. Failing that - I am in a valley with a hill shadow after all - I'll try boosting the masthead amp from the current 20db to a new 34db or higher, and cleaning the Wisi EE06 connectors.

If I go the latter, I'll need a VHF solution for NBN from Newcastle for VCR recording - is my old existing VHF antennae any good or should I get another? If so, which one?

Thanks - Dave Soede aka Apprentice_GM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

Gosford is only 0.1 kW!

If the Wyong repeater is successful, then why don't you feed that antenna signal into the VCR from the STB and you will be able to record all stations.

Your first option is to clean up, rotate the antenna both vertically and horizontally to pick up Wyong.

I would connect the Wisi EE06 antenna connected to the UHF input of your mast head amplifier and try it out.

Re: FM

A UHF antenna is useless for FM, since Channel 3 (NBN) is in the FM band you can use this antenna for FM.

Incase you did not pick it up 2BL is 702 so you may be able to get it on FM from Gosford, but you may need to use an external antenna.

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TerryA came out and waved a spectrum analyser around for a while, before concluding the existing pole and antennae location was very close to optimal, and moving it a metre or 2 past the end of a ridge would be too hard, if indeed it would make a difference at all.

Channel 10 (SC10) from SugarLoaf was barely distinguishable from the noise floor, no wonder I got constant breakups.

He also confirmed I can't get Forries (Wyrrabalung) transmissions - damn :blink:

He then replaced the masthead amp (20db GME Kingray) with a new 44db masthead amp and . . .

Everything is bloody brilliant!

Channel SC10 is ~75% strength and locked solid, Prime is 80% on the DGTEC strength indicator, and ABC / SBS & NBN are 90%+ - almost too strong one would think, it's pushing the top red zone. But the reception is perfect and I can't be happier.

I also get local and Newcastle FM - well all but Central Coast 92.5 FM (ABC) which is strange as I get all others, must be a different transmitter or strength or something. A pity as I was hoping 92.5 could be my backup plan for 702 AM (cricket) as I still don't have a solution for that yet.

A big rap and thank you to TerryA - I reckon he is very professional, knows his stuff and was quick to offer free advice via email before doing the work. Highly recommended for any other Coasties needing similar help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Dave,

There is only 3 44 dB masthead amplifiers available from Kingray. MHU44BG5 which has a slight loss at VHF including FM, a band 4 & 5 amplifier which is similar and a VHF amplifier which does not amplify Band 4 & 5.

This means that if you are using you VHF Newcastle antenna for NBN analog and FM it is unamplified. In addition it is pointed north and the 98.1 2BL is to the south of you.

The following FM transmitters are at Mt Penang;

2PNN 92.5 (630 AM translator)

2CCH 94.1

2CCC 96.3

2BL 98.1 (702 AM translator)

2GOS 104.5

2GGO 107.7

The best solution is

Suffern ANTFM8 14 dB antenna, (www.naspl.com)

Kingray MHV34 B1-3 34 dB B4-5 -1 dB amplifier

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again,

Regarding Dave's install - the area he is in is quite difficult. Terrain means no possibility of Forresters Beach reception. Literally 500 metres N & Ne it is quite good, but the hills kill it, doubled up by a massive treeline. A 44db amp was used owing to the treeline, which in wind will kill pretty much anything lower. The 44db was holding a very good signal on a reasonably windy day.

The criteria was for good reception of SC10, which is vastly lower in power in this location than any of the other digital transmissions from Mt Sugarloaf. Again, 500 metres due north, I can recieve SC10 from Mt Sugarloaf off the back of a WISI which is facing Forresters Beach.

My suggestion for NBN analogue would be to install the existing VHF on the same pole, run a separate feed of RG6 into the old 20db masthead & combine it further down the line.

Literally across the road, the reception is so bad, direct reception from Mt Sugarloaf or Forresters Beach is not possible. I had to resort to a signal bounce off the hill behind to pull a usable signal, with a 34db masthead.

A decent retransmitter at Wyong or Tuggerah would assist for a lot of people, but I think it'll be some time before that ever happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again,

Regarding Dave's install - the area he is in is quite difficult. Terrain means no possibility of Forresters Beach reception. Literally 500 metres N & Ne it is quite good, but the hills kill it, doubled up by a massive treeline. A 44db amp was used owing to the treeline, which in wind will kill pretty much anything lower. The 44db was holding a very good signal on a reasonably windy day.

The criteria was for good reception of SC10, which is vastly lower in power in this location than any of the other digital transmissions from Mt Sugarloaf. Again, 500 metres due north, I can recieve SC10 from Mt Sugarloaf off the back of a WISI which is facing Forresters Beach.

My suggestion for NBN analogue would be to install the existing VHF on the same pole, run a separate feed of RG6 into the old 20db masthead & combine it further down the line.

Literally across the road, the reception is so bad, direct reception from Mt Sugarloaf or Forresters Beach is not possible. I had to resort to a signal bounce off the hill behind to pull a usable signal, with a 34db masthead.

A decent retransmitter at Wyong or Tuggerah would assist for a lot of people, but I think it'll be some time before that ever happens.

Hi Terry

I was interested to read about you changing the 20db masthead amplifier with a 44db amplifier. I am also in a difficult area at Niagara Park surrounded by hills and trees. When we get strong winds I suffer heavy pixellation so I wonder if changing my GME-KINGRAY 20db masthead amp to a 44db amplifier would eliminate this. I am currently getting 89% signal strength on a TEAC 420 and a UEC 720 using a phase 5 UHF antenna facing Sugarloaf coupled with a VHF antenna facing Gosford/Sydney. I am puling in all channels except NBN on my UEC box. As far as the direction/rotation of antenna's are concerned I have tried all configurations and the current position gives me the best result.

If it would be beneficial for me to change to a 44db amplifier would I also have to change my GME-KINGRAY PSK02 power supply.

Thanks

Peter C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cumberpl,

The Kingray MHU44G requires a PSK08F power supply It is 17.5 V AC instead of PSK02 being 22 V. The old one may overheat the 44 dB amplifier. The PSK08F uses F connectors the PSK08 uses PAL connectors.

It will make a great difference to your reception, but it will not amplify VHF at all, so NBN analog will pass through it unamplified if connected to the VHF input.

Gosford

Analog ABHN46 SBS58 ATN49 TCN52 TEN55 NBN40 NRN61 NEN 43

Digital (2)37 (3)34 (7)61 (9)62 (1)65 (8)68 (5)29, (6)35 Spare 56 59

These translators are on the Gosford Trig Station. If you can see this site then you can get the greatest number of stations. Your analog NBN antenna can be used for FM radio.

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cumberpl,

The Kingray MHU44G requires a PSK08F power supply It is 17.5 V AC instead of PSK02 being 22 V. The old one may overheat the 44 dB amplifier. The PSK08F uses F connectors the PSK08 uses PAL connectors.

It will make a great difference to your reception, but it will not amplify VHF at all, so NBN analog will pass through it unamplified if connected to the VHF input.

Gosford         

  Analog ABHN46 SBS58 ATN49 TCN52 TEN55 NBN40 NRN61 NEN 43           

  Digital (2)37 (3)34  (7)61 (9)62 (1)65 (8)68 (5)29, (6)35  Spare 56  59

These translators are on the Gosford Trig Station. If you can see this site then you can get the greatest number of stations. Your analog NBN antenna can be used for FM radio.

AlanH

Alan H

Thanks for your very informative and helpful information, much appreciated.

I'll replace the existing amp and power supply and let you know the results.

Peter C

Link to comment
Share on other sites



cumberpl,

The Kingray MHU44G requires a PSK08F power supply It is 17.5 V AC instead of PSK02 being 22 V. The old one may overheat the 44 dB amplifier. The PSK08F uses F connectors the PSK08 uses PAL connectors.

It will make a great difference to your reception, but it will not amplify VHF at all, so NBN analog will pass through it unamplified if connected to the VHF input.

Gosford          

  Analog ABHN46 SBS58 ATN49 TCN52 TEN55 NBN40 NRN61 NEN 43           

  Digital (2)37 (3)34  (7)61 (9)62 (1)65 (8)68 (5)29, (6)35  Spare 56  59

These translators are on the Gosford Trig Station. If you can see this site then you can get the greatest number of stations. Your analog NBN antenna can be used for FM radio.

AlanH

Alan H

Thanks for your very informative and helpful information, much appreciated.

I'll replace the existing amp and power supply and let you know the results.

Peter C

AlanH/TerryA

As a matter of interest, what is the difference between a MHU44G & MHU44BG5 amplifier and why would you use one rather than the other ?

Regards

Peter C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My suggestion for NBN analogue would be to install the existing VHF on the same pole, run a separate feed of RG6 into the old 20db masthead & combine it further down the line.

Terry & Alan,

If I were to do this - use the old masthead amp to amplify VHF - how do I combine it later on? What do I need to do this?

I wondered about my NBN - since putting the VHF antennae back up I can now receive NBN again, but it is definitely weaker / snowy compared to before. I didn't understand this as I connected the VHF to "VHF in" on the 44 db amp, not realising it didn't amplify VHF :blink: I only use ananlog NBN to record to VCR until I have a HTPC solution in place for digital PVR'ing (no I won't use a commercial PVR product as they are ridiculously expensive and under-featured compared to an HTPC I can build : ) but may as well make use of what I have.

So what extra bits do I need to combine the signals again? Thanks guys - Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Added a Johansson 09MM-HL15F Diplexor today to combine the old 20db amp + VHF antennae, with the new 44db amp + UHF Wisi EE06 antennae.

NBN analogue for VCR recording is back to what it used to be.

I did notice a small drop in UHF signal strength, around 5%, maybe 10% on my DGTEC 2000A STB, but it doesn't matter as it's well into the green on all channels including SC10.

That's pretty well it for me, unless anyone can suggest a way of reflecting my northern neighbour's signal (he is ~100m north and receives Wyrrabalung (Forries) pretty well, as well as some SugarLoaf off the back of the antennae. Seems strange to me as signals are polarised 90 degrees to each other (SugarLoaf = horizontal and Forries = vertical) but he gets Sydney Channel 9, Sydney 7 and Sydney 10 as well as Prime 7, SC10 and 3 or 4 NBN signals plus 2 or 3 ABC as well. Unfortunately his antennae points about 40m north of my house and ~50m high at my house point, so that would be about the pole I'd need, which is a little un-realistic I think.

Overall I am happy achieving what I have now, best of a bad terrain situation, thanks all for your help (especially Alan and Terry).

Regards,

Dave Soede aka Apprentice_GM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apprentice_GM,

The reason you your neighbour can receive these channels is because they are all transmitted from the Wyong translators. It is vertically polarised to minimise interference with other translators on the same channel but horizontally polarised. With a maximum of 7 RF channels repeated all through the central coast there is not enough channels to go around. So if some are horizontal and others are vertical you can reuse channels closer together than otherwise.

What are you doing about the cricket?

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Alan,

Yeah, that was my point - he can get Wyrrabalung with his vertically polarised antennae. The bit I was surprised about is why he can also get SugarLoaf off the back of the antennae when SugarLoaf is horizontally polarised, I wouldn't have thought his vertically polarised antennae would get the horizontal signal.

As for the cricket, I am going to try a different loop antennae for AM, and see how it goes. I wish 702 transmitted over the 'net, problem solved, but I can't find any streaming if they do, on their website.

Open to any antennae suggestions for AM. I love this vally location, crappy reception is just one of the prices to pay :blink:

Amazing what technology has solved for me so far though.

Still irked at what my neighbour can get, just 100m in this terrain makes all the difference :P

Can you bounce a signal off metal or something? I'm not that keen on a re-transmitter for ~$30,000 or so :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again,

Alan - the only channels in Apprentice_GM's location are horizontal - the Wyong (actually Forresters Beach) transmitter just doesn't make it into his location, so unfortunately, the best setup is the current one.

At least all Mt Sugarloaf stations on digital are pulling in fine. Once he has the diplexer back into the system, he will grab NBN on VHF as before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TerryA,

My parents used to live in Lisarow, and have now passed on.

I do not live in the area, so I appreciate your local knowledge.

As for AM your choices are 2NC 1233 Newcastle and 2BL 702 Prestons (West of Liverpool).

Theoretically 1233 kHz has a half wavelength of 122 m and 702 kHz is 214 m.

This is obviously too long for a domestic block.

I do not know what type of receiver you intend to use. If it will be in a fixed location you could try a long wire which is east west and as long as you can get it. Connect it where you were going to connect the loop. the other terminal should be connected to a 1 m copper stake in the ground.

Check http://abc.net.au/reception/radio/am_antenna.htm

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
cumberpl,

The Kingray MHU44G requires a PSK08F power supply It is 17.5 V AC instead of PSK02 being 22 V. The old one may overheat the 44 dB amplifier. The PSK08F uses F connectors the PSK08 uses PAL connectors.

It will make a great difference to your reception, but it will not amplify VHF at all, so NBN analog will pass through it unamplified if connected to the VHF input.

Gosford          

  Analog ABHN46 SBS58 ATN49 TCN52 TEN55 NBN40 NRN61 NEN 43           

  Digital (2)37 (3)34  (7)61 (9)62 (1)65 (8)68 (5)29, (6)35  Spare 56  59

These translators are on the Gosford Trig Station. If you can see this site then you can get the greatest number of stations. Your analog NBN antenna can be used for FM radio.

AlanH

Alan H

Thanks for your very informative and helpful information, much appreciated.

I'll replace the existing amp and power supply and let you know the results.

Peter C

AlanH/TerryA

As a matter of interest, what is the difference between a MHU44G & MHU44BG5 amplifier and why would you use one rather than the other ?

Regards

Peter C

Hi Alan

Have just received my MHU44G amplifier & PSK08 power supply which I will be fitting tomorrow.

From the instructions it appears that I can use the existing 20db amplifier to connect the VHF antenna to the U/V Input of the MHU44G.

Is this correct and will it maintain my current reception on VHF ???

Thanks

Peter Cumberland

Niagara Park

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter,

You should only feed the VHF signal into the V input. Just make sure there is no connection to connect together the V and the U inputs. It may be a rectangular hole in the board, which you need to puncture.

If it gives you trouble, you may need to use a separate diplexer. Try it anyway.

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Peter,

You should only feed the VHF signal into the V input. Just make sure there is no connection to connect together the V and the U inputs. It may be a rectangular hole in the board, which you need to puncture.

If it gives you trouble, you may need to use a separate diplexer. Try it anyway.

AlanH

Thanks Alan

I have connected as you describe and UHF is good (especially on analogue)

but as expected VHF is poor.

It has a statement in the MHU44G manual (http://www.gme.net.au/support/Customer/matv_docs/mhu44gp.pdf) saying

"The amplifier is supplied with Power Pass Link in the OFF position,

do not place link in the ON position unless power is to be passed to

a line amplifier on the U/V Input port."

Does this mean that if I connect an RG6 lead from the old masthead amp

to the U/V input of the new amp and place the Power Pass Link in the

ON position that this will then amplfy my VHF signal ???

Regards

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
As for AM your choices are 2NC 1233 Newcastle and 2BL 702 Prestons (West of Liverpool).

Theoretically 1233 kHz has a half wavelength of 122 m and 702 kHz is 214 m.

This is obviously too long for a domestic block.

I do not know what type of receiver you intend to use. If it will be in a fixed location you could try a long wire which is east west and as long as you can get it. Connect it where you were going to connect the loop. the other terminal should be connected to a 1 m copper stake in the ground.

Check http://abc.net.au/reception/radio/am_antenna.htm

AlanH

AlanH,

Merry Christmas, long time no chat :blink:

I have finally decided to re-visit #6 on my goal list . . . to receive ABC "Local Radio", either 702 from Sydney or 1233 from Newcastle in the AM band, or perhaps 92.5 FM (Central Coast Local Radio but not sure if they broadcast the cricket coverage).

This lack of cricket coverage (eg when Channel 9 goto other programming like news and current affairs) is killing me. Plus I am really detesting Tony Greig commentary when watching TV so would love the ABC commentary instead if possible whilst watching digital TV NBN.

I have spent 2+ days reading through different loop antennae suggestions (mainly from DXers' Lab and am a bit lost. Actually I am really struggling to understand the jargon :P

I had a crack at doing a "Long Wire" antenna by running 20m of thick copper cable along my roof in a east-west direction (I am north of Sydney but shielded from Sydney 702 by a high ridge and treeline) and running a RG6 feed line into my AV Receiver (Denon 2801) AM Loop input (and running another RG6 line from the ground terminal for the AM loop antennae on the receiver to a ground - tried a GPO ground and also my house main copper water pipe ground).

I got a noticeable improvement in general AM reception, can listen to 801 quite clearly whatever (Italian? Greek?) station that is. I can hear the same station on 1035, 1242 (faint), 1377, 1503 & 1602!

But I can't hear my 702 very well at all, lots of static and 2 stations blending together. It can't tune 1233 at all. The frustrating thing is if I sit in my car listening to the worlds worst car radio I can listen to 702 OK, albeit with some static.

As I am on acreage I could actually probably run 122m of cable east-west if needed, if you think that would help? I am wondering if I haven't done the Long Wire antennae properly but the ABC instructions you linked seemed simple and clear. Or I could buy a cheap 2H tuner on ebay or something, open to suggestions as to a reasonable solution if possible.

Every time I goto stream ABC over the net they have used up their bandwidth allowance or they have technical problems unfortunately (when no cricket is on I can stream it just fine!).

If anyone can suggest any solution I am all ears, I know this is a Digital TV forum but many (AlanH in particular) seem knowledgeable about such things :P

Thanks & Merry Christmas!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again,

As posted to you off-forum, this is a long standing issue - we worked long & hard to get decent AM reception for clients, but the inherent problems with 801 blowing across all & sundry are issues that are insurmountable. Cars use a completely different type of technology for tuning & the whole body is a groundplane, therefore your reception is better using the car, or even a handheld transistor radio. The problem is likely to worsen if the 801 station manages to get their increas in transmission power they have been lobbying for.

To put it simply, any increase in gain unfortunately is going to make your current problems with 801 significantly worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apprentice_GM,

Glad to see that things are improving.

As for the cricket, have you tried rotating your VHF antenna towards Gosford and using your old VHF masthead amplifier to feed your FM radio? Just temporarily, to see if you can find it?

AlanH

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...
To Top