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Mid - Hi End HT


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After 8months and $20 000 I have put together a Home Theatre that I can live with

and be happy.

The system consists of the following:

Yamaha RX V2400 AV Receiver

Denon DVD2900 DVD Audio/Video SACD Player

B&W 604s3 Front

B&W 603s3 Surround

B&W 602s3 Back Surround

B&W LCR600s3 Centre

M&K V125 Sub

Sanyo PLV Z2 LCD Projector

I also have a Foxtel Digital subscription and a 80 inch (200cm) ScreenTechnics

CinemaSnap Screen.

Firstly the Projector. I've had it since February 04 and just fitted a new lamp.

the hour meter read 1140 hours (all in standard mode, ie no eco mode hours).

I have a service manual from e-bay and it says to multiply lamp hours in standard

mode by 1.5 to get a true reading. (ie 1140 x 1.5 = 1710 hours). This is spot

on for the recomended lamp life of 1500-2000 hours.

So a new lamp every 8 months or so at a cost of $469 delivered. I can live with that. I may also run it in the lower setting a bit more, or not leave it on overnight at parties so often (believe me, when you have a projector, every weekend is a party!). May get the life out to 1 year.

The projector cost $3450 delivered so I got a free lamp in the RRP anyway.

The projector needs a very dark room/night time to operate at its best, so save

those movies for the evening. Still the picture quality at 1280x720 HD resolution

never fails to put a smile on my face.

Only other querks I have noticed are dodgy keystone correction and the dreaded

dust blobs (of which I have many), not really a bother on most films, just the odd

outer space shot (ie all black screen).

Next the Speakers. The B&W 602s3 would have to be the best bang for buck

speakers on the market. Good punchy bass, clear mid's. You can get these for just under $1000. money well spent.

If I had my time over I would have got two more 602's and the 604's, rather than

the 603's. The 602's go almost as deep and are $650 cheaper on the street.

The 604's are a better match for them as well, all with 7 inch drivers.

I should also say the LCR600 centre is a standout and is very dynamic. (an all LCR600s3 speaker set would be a very good 5.1 channel choice).

The Miller & Kreisel V-125 Subwoofer is unflappable and I have NEVER heard it in distress.

The amp and dvd player I have only had a short while, so I will reserve judgement, suffice to say the 2900's picture is breathtaking on the projector.

Its compramise is no digital video out.

More thoughts later.

Al

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sounds like good fun there! :blink:

i'm not familiar with PJs in general (cos i've never investigated them), but the remainder of your system i recognise as good stuff. i run the 601 S3 for rears, and too find them great value and neat little speakers in themselves.

enjoy. :P

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A good friend has the B&W 6 series speakers with a Denon 3805 amp. After a lot of experimentation it became obvious they really prefer to get as much of the bass duties taken away from them as possible. They became different speakers when you took the load off them. Of course getting the right balance with your subwoofer in the room required endless experimentation work. The big improvement was the midrange clarity, while the dynamics and tightness improved out of sight.

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, thanks for the feed back.

Have been living with the new setup for a fortnight now.

Firstly, it took all day, (10 hours) to dismantle my old system

and wire-up the new one in place (phew!).

My cable costs have now blown out to $1200+ and I'm not using

anything that flash. ( Monster std 16g, Neotech optical/Component).

You must budget these costs into any HT system, around 5%.

The Yamaha RX V2400 is an able beast. It has grown on me over the past 2 weeks, after my initial disappointment (compared to my old Yam RX V620) in

the volume department. It just go's to show what a good AVR the 620 is.

After some tweeking I can hear the sound stage has become front focused

again, my old one was to bias towards the rears, but now with the improved

decoders and YAPO optimiser, sound comes from were it should. And my backs

are very close to my ears (ie less than 1m B&W 602 s3).

The jump from 5x90W to 7x120W is not as dramatic as it looks on paper,

at least not what I was expecting in the volume dept. But as I set speaker

size, levels and played with the equalizer, the output is now more dynamic

and controlled than the 620. With more headroom the 2400 won't get harsh

at high levels and remains composed during the loudest movie crescendo.

Overall the volume is earbleed on both, but the 2400 is far smoother in the

surround pans and music, It just Sounds better.

The thing that pleased me the most was the soundfloor. I don't know if it was

new cable or what, but the crackel and hum I was getting has completely

disappered. I mean it is Silent. There is no interfearence in any components

and all you hear is the soundtrack as intended. If you must pay in excess of

$5k RRP for this, it's worth it.

I am living in the inland Pilbara in North West W.A., working in the Iron Ore

mines around Newman. I have purchased my entire system ( listed in post above)

by reading internet reviews, forums and magazines. Because I live in Newman,

not just fly-in/fly-out like half the work force, I cannot audition any of the gear,

or compare pictures side by side etc. So if your wondering why I did'nt know

the difference between 90W and 120W, Its because I never heard it before.

I'm very happy with my system in any case, and would buy the same gear

again if given the chance. As with most things Its right time, right money.

I got the Yamy 2400 for $1830 (RRP $2999). I know the new 2500 is out now

but its $2499 and you won't get no discount. I payed $1100 for the Denon 2900

on e-bay ($1999 RRP) so I've saved $2k+ on last years gear. Alright by me.

The Denon is my next hurdle. It fails some tests on DVE (with moire patterns

on moving circle lines). But this may be the Z2 projector as well?.

This player also features bass management and time allignment. I must fiddle

with all the components to get this right. At the moment I have all the

Amps speakers set to large and crossover at THX 80hz, but the M&K's variable

crossover is also set to 80hz and there is the DVDs bass management to contend

with as well. I believe that there may be some interferance between all these

components, and a crossover 'cascade' may be in effect. I may need help

with this one. Or bypass the M&K's filter?

Havn't been able to get the Zone 2 to work yet either. It's in how the amp

only puts out what you have going in. (ie Digital in, no analogue out).

Well, more on my adventures later. Will now spend well earned cash on DVD

collection (with DTS ES 6.1 Discrete soundtracks!).

PS: Yamaha RX V620 5.1 90w revr , Sony DVPNS730p prog scan DVD

Bose 301s4, Bose 161 rears, Bose VCS10 centre are now my bedroom

set up.

Al

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Quote: "The jump from 5x90W to 7x120W is not as dramatic as it looks on paper,

at least not what I was expecting in the volume dept. But as I set speaker

size, levels and played with the equalizer, the output is now more dynamic

and controlled than the 620. With more headroom the 2400 won't get harsh

at high levels and remains composed during the loudest movie crescendo.

Overall the volume is earbleed on both, but the 2400 is far smoother in the

surround pans and music, It just Sounds better."

You may, or may not, be aware but volume and power is a logarithmic function. To get twice the volume you require 10 times the power output. So to be twice as loud as a 50W system requires a 500W system.

Therefore the jump from 90W to 120W is minimal.

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ah, good to see you're enjoying it. given your location, i'm impressed you even managed to source the stuff you have!

The Denon is my next hurdle. It fails some tests on DVE (with moire patterns

on moving circle lines). But this may be the Z2 projector as well?

there may be some calibration you can perform on the pj, but i've never fiddled with one, so can't really advise.

also, are you using a decent dedicated 'screen'?

This player also features bass management and time allignment. I must fiddle

with all the components to get this right.

does this still come into play when the audio is fed out via a digital output? i don't think my new denon does that. however, i'd suggest sticking with the AVR for all your tuning, just to simplify things. by tuning the AVR, then all 'sources' will benefit from the same settings (eg: tv, DVD, separate CD player, etc). this should suit for the purposes of time alignment; if your AVR allows 'individualised' settings of bass management for each input then that's useful too.

Amps speakers set to large and crossover at THX 80hz, but the M&K's variable crossover is also set to 80hz and there is the DVDs bass management to contend with as well. I believe that there may be some interferance between all these components, and a crossover 'cascade' may be in effect. I may need help

with this one. Or bypass the M&K's filter?

there's never any hard and fast 'rules' when it comes to tuning. you need to tailor for your tastes, your equipment, and your room.

but often 'less is better' rather than the other way around. or at least i'd suggest starting out using only 1 crossover: either the AVR or the denon, rather than cascade them. but of course experiment; the subbass may sound more accurate and 'non-directional' with a steeper crossover (presuming each xover is 12dB/oct slope, then the cascade would be a nice steep 24dB/oct). now sure how accurately you can set the xover on the M&K (dial vs electronic?), so lining them up could pose difficult, although not essential to have them perfectly aligned.

as with any audio setup, it can take months to tweak and tune to find your 'favoured' settings. so i'd encourage you to try a few things out and not expect to settle on the first thing. with the speakers you have, 80Hz is probably as higher a lowpass filter setting you need for the sub. somewhere between 60-80Hz ought to be ideal, but you'd have to make that call as you're the one auditioning. :blink:

Havn't been able to get the Zone 2 to work yet either. It's in how the amp

only puts out what you have going in. (ie Digital in, no analogue out).

i don't know the yami AVRs to advise, but no doubt there's a menu you have to access to turn it 'on'. do you need this function?

have fun.

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Therefore the jump from 90W to 120W is minimal.

hence I cringe to see guys on here updating their HT amps just because the newer model has a few more watts. I for one am quite happy with the 65w per channels from my HK amp, think thats plenty for the room size I've got my system in.

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Thanks for your posts.

Shiny Car

What a helpful person you are. I have read many of your posts on this forum and

you appear a real enthusiast. I would like to know what your current setup is.

To answer some of your questions;

Yes I have a dedicated screen. It's a Screen Technics Cinema Snap.

80 inch, 16:9, Fixed to the wall. It has a thick (12cm), bevelled and powder coated

black aluminium frame. It also has a perfectly flat, matt white PVC membrane and It looks like a 80 inch Plasma screen at night!

I would like to use Zone 2 ( to watch cable in the bedroom) if I could get it to work! I have read some other posts on various forums about this. There may be

an issue with Zone 2 on the Yamy 2400?

Thankyou for the Bass management tip's. This can be a pitfall for the newbie.

I have turned the filter in the Denon 2900 off. You were right, the time allignment only works on the multi channel analouge out. I now let the amp take care of

everything. I've set the cross over on the sub to 60Hz. Will let the forum know

of the results and final settings.

HiFi007

I agree with you. Take the bass load off the B&W 602's and 603's and the mids do improve. But the 604's just go so low. Using Shiny Cars advice, I have set the

LFE channel to both (to engage the fronts as well) and the sub xover to 60Hz.

The 604's take anything you can throw at them. They do this with very little

cone extension as well. When I had the 603's up front, with some heavy bass beats, It looked like they would spit the driver out of the enclosure!

The 604's look good too. They tower above the 603's. With their polished aluminium bass drivers, they could have come out the back of Missy Elliott's Hummer.

Alfred

Yes, I'm learning. As in my previous post, I cannot audition anything. So I rely

on good people like yourself, and forums such as this, to spread the word.

The volume is still ear bleed level in my 8.5x3.5 m room

alebonau

I have been building up to this current system for over three years.

The main reason for the upgrade was the leap from 5.1 to 7.1 sound.

The Yamaha RX V620 is a 2001 model (the best of the cheap range that year).

It has been superceded many times since then (think model 30, 40 and now 50).

I'd say it's about the equivelent of this year's RX V750.

The DAC's have been upgraded (24/192) all around, compared to the 620 (24/96).

It also has new decoders that include Dolby EX and DTS ES as well as THX Surround. The 620 had DD and DTS only.

I just thought (wrongly) that it would be louder.

No, this was not a knee jerk decision, but a well researched and reasoned purchace. The RX V2400 cost $1830. (which is not a lot more than I payed for the

620 three and a half years ago). I think you will agree It's worth the price.

Ginger

For your's and everybody's info;

Yamaha RX V2400 AVR RRP $2999 Paid $1830 Morley HiFi Perth WA

Denon DVD2900 Uni SACD RRP $1999 Paid $1110 E-bay auction

B&W 604s3 pair RRP $3499 Paid $2550 Morley HiFi Perth WA

B&W 603s3 pair RRP $1999 Paid $1650 West Coast HiFi Rockingham

B&W 602s3 pair RRP $1199 Paid $ 980 Ordered thru Retravision

B&W LCR600 centre RRP $ 999 Paid $ 850 Ordered Retravis (local)

M&K V125 Sub RRP $2199 Paid $1850 Swapped old sub (YST320)

local Retravision

Sanyo PLV Z2 lcd Projector RRP $3999 Paid $3450 Local Retravision

Screen Tech 80in Fixed RRP $1199 Paid $ 750 Local Retravision (ordered)

Also include over a $1000 for cable and $469 for a second lamp.

So you can see it's insured for over $20k!

All the above paid price's were for strict cash only.

BTW, Ordering thru my local Retravision man was usually the cheapest and easiest

I only went outside this when he couldn't match the price on the amp. But I was

burnt at Morley. They said they had the gear when they did'nt and had to wait over

2 weeks to get it up here. They had my $4380 as well!. Also promised a DTS Demo

DVD which I never got.

Will report back later

Al

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Thanks for your posts.

Shiny Car

What a helpful person you are. I have read many of your posts on this forum and

you appear a real enthusiast. I would like to know what your current setup is.

To answer some of your questions;

Yes I have a dedicated screen. It's a Screen Technics Cinema Snap.

80 inch, 16:9, Fixed to the wall. It has a thick (12cm), bevelled and powder coated

black aluminium frame. It also has a perfectly flat, matt white PVC membrane and It looks like a 80 inch Plasma screen at night!

I would like to use Zone 2 ( to watch cable in the bedroom) if I could get it to work! I have read some other posts on various forums about this. There may be

an issue with Zone 2 on the Yamy 2400?

Thankyou for the Bass management tip's. This can be a pitfall for the newbie.

I have turned the filter in the Denon 2900 off. You were right, the time allignment only works on the multi channel analouge out. I now let the amp take care of

everything. I've set the cross over on the sub to 60Hz. Will let the forum know

of the results and final settings.

HiFi007

I agree with you. Take the bass load off the B&W 602's and 603's and the mids do improve. But the 604's just go so low. Using Shiny Cars advice, I have set the

LFE channel to both (to engage the fronts as well) and the sub xover to 60Hz.

The 604's take anything you can throw at them. They do this with very little

cone extension as well. When I had the 603's up front, with some heavy bass beats, It looked like they would spit the driver out of the enclosure!

The 604's look good too. They tower above the 603's. With their polished aluminium bass drivers, they could have come out the back of Missy Elliott's Hummer.

Alfred

Yes, I'm learning. As in my previous post, I cannot audition anything. So I rely

on good people like yourself, and forums such as this, to spread the word.

The volume is still ear bleed level in my 8.5x3.5 m room

alebonau

I have been building up to this current system for over three years.

The main reason for the upgrade was the leap from 5.1 to 7.1 sound.

The Yamaha RX V620 is a 2001 model (the best of the cheap range that year).

It has been superceded many times since then (think model 30, 40 and now 50).

I'd say it's about the equivelent of this year's RX V750.

The DAC's have been upgraded (24/192) all around, compared to the 620 (24/96).

It also has new decoders that include Dolby EX and DTS ES as well as THX Surround. The 620 had DD and DTS only.

I just thought (wrongly) that it would be louder.

No, this was not a knee jerk decision, but a well researched and reasoned purchace. The RX V2400 cost $1830. (which is not a lot more than I payed for the

620 three and a half years ago). I think you will agree It's worth the price.

Ginger

For your's and everybody's info;

Yamaha RX V2400 AVR      RRP $2999  Paid $1830  Morley HiFi Perth WA

Denon DVD2900 Uni SACD  RRP $1999  Paid $1110  E-bay auction

B&W 604s3 pair                  RRP $3499  Paid $2550  Morley HiFi Perth WA

B&W 603s3 pair                  RRP $1999  Paid $1650  West Coast HiFi Rockingham

B&W 602s3 pair

Looks like your system is coming along nicely

You have definetly received the correct advise with turning the 2900's filter off good move.

I would only try one other thing try your cross over at 80Hz as well and see what you prefer.

Are you running a sub?

If so what unit?

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I agree with you. Take the bass load off the B&W 602's and 603's and the mids do improve. But the 604's just go so low. Using Shiny Cars advice, I have set the

LFE channel to both (to engage the fronts as well) and the sub xover to 60Hz.

Different rooms seem to get slghtly different opinions, but experimenting is part of the fun IMO. I also would try setting all speakers to small and 80Hz on the 604's. I use Paradigm Refs (soon Sigs) and have found 60Hz not as good a balance as the 80Hz setting into my Hsu sub. Mid range vocals and imaging improves quite substantially by giving the bass to a good sub. My Paradigm Refs are brilliant speakers but they are not where near good enough for the full range of low bass and 60Hz+ is low bass that is better put into a good dedicated sub.

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Is HTPC meaning home theatre personal computer?

Yes

Also what benefit is having one connected to the tv system.

Main advantages are:

1. HDTV for the cost of a PCI card ($100-300)

2. Personal Video Recorder (PVR) for free - using software supplied with the HDTV card and your hard drive.

3. Exact control over display resolutions and refresh rates using PowerStrip.

4. Better control over noise reduction and sharpness using 'filter' software like FFDShow.

5. You can surf the web or update your spreadsheets or fly FlightSim on your plasma or projector.

Main disadvantages (IMHO) are:

1. Depending on your existing PC hardware and software setup, DTV reception can suffer 'glitches' as your HDTV card briefly loses control of the IDE bus, or the CPU is unable to keep up with decoding. Poor digital reception will greatly magnify these problems with the extra error-correction overheads.

2. PCs are usually larger and noisier than a STB or PVR in your hifi rack.

3. If you are not tech-savvy, getting the HTPC to work as reliably as a STB or PVR can be a real challenge.

2i cents,

Ian

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aaa67: your setup is great, and no doubt sounds and looks impressive.

did you figure the Zone 2 issue out?

Shiny Car

What a helpful person you are. I have read many of your posts on this forum and

you appear a real enthusiast. I would like to know what your current setup is.

ah, now don't misinterpret my enthusiasm for 'knowing what i'm talking about'. :blink:

nah, i endeavour to offer factual advice and otherwise mention if i'm giving an 'opinion'. my setup is only recently completed (added the plasma), and am really happy with the results:

*rotel RSX-1056 AVR

(*rotel RCD-1072 for stereo/redbook-CD listening)

*thomson HDTV STB + denon DVD-3910 DVD player

*pioneer PDP-434HDG 43" plasma: love it

*B&W 704 (fronts), HTM7 (centre), 601S3 (rears)

*JBL E250 active 12" subbie

i personally value SQ as much as PQ, and everything has integrated beautifully. hopefully the 'upgrade bug' won't bite me anytime soon!

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