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Denon 3803 vs 3805


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Now that I'm in a spending mood (thanks ANZ) :blink: I'm wondering if I should take the plunge and upgrade my 3803 to a 3805.

What attracts me is the auto set up. I know absolutely NOTHING about how to get the best out of my system and I'm always vaguely dissatisfied and think that it should sound better than it does. I've got Dynaudio speakers - which I love to bits and a Velodyne sub woofer, so don't think I'm lacking in that department.

The Denon link would also come in handy.

What do you think - is it worth it? and what could I expect to get for my (pristine) 3803? Any takers?

Grateful for any advice.

Lynn

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Lyn the 3805 is a complete redo of the 3803 but I don't know if your going to get value for money by throwing in your 3803 (sell at quite a loss) for an improvement that could be incremental at best. You'd hate to buy a 3805 only to find no of very little perceptible difference.

Best way to find out is find yourself a dealer thats willing to give you a home trial. This way you can give the 3805 a run at home and decide on the spot whether its worth the upgrade. The dealers will agree to this if you make it clear to them that if it is an improvement you will buy. They might want a scan of your credit card for insurance but this is pretty standard practice.

Just be carefull the lure of the new model is not sucking you in. I for one have in my stereo hifi system some components that are around 10 years+ old. I've continually "borrowed" latest models to check how it sounds only to find a very marginal if best difference(not necessarily even better) - and hence haven't bothered with an upgrade. If I'd upgraded with every new model released I would have replaced every component about three times now and spent a fortune in the process with not much to show for the result.

By the way if setting up of levels is a concern with 3803 this can be done quite easily using a $50 dse sound level meter. Plenty of people on here including myself will be quite willing to help you out here if your not sure of the process.

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Lyn the 3805 is a complete redo of the 3803 but I don't know if your going to get value for money by throwing in your 3803 (sell at quite a loss) for an improvement that could be incremental at best. You'd hate to buy a 3805 only to find no of very little perceptible difference.

Best way to find out is find yourself a dealer thats willing to give you a home trial. This way you can give the 3805 a run at home and decide on the spot whether its worth the upgrade. The dealers will agree to this if you make it clear to them that if it is an improvement you will buy. They might want a scan of your credit card for insurance but this is pretty standard practice.

Just be carefull the lure of the new model is not sucking you in. I for one have in my stereo hifi system some components that are around 10 years+ old. I've continually "borrowed" latest models to check how it sounds only to find a very marginal if best difference(not necessarily even better) - and hence haven't bothered with an upgrade. If I'd upgraded with every new model released I would have replaced every component about three times now and spent a fortune in the process with not much to show for the result.

By the way if setting up of levels is a concern with 3803 this can be done quite easily using a $50 dse sound level meter. Plenty of people on here including myself will be quite willing to help you out here if your not sure of the process.

Ditto on the help offer

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Lyn the 3805 is a complete redo of the 3803 but I don't know if your going to get value for money by throwing in your 3803 (sell at quite a loss) for an improvement that could be incremental at best. You'd hate to buy a 3805 only to find no of very little perceptible difference.

Best way to find out is find yourself a dealer thats willing to give you a home trial. This way you can give the 3805 a run at home and decide on the spot whether its worth the upgrade. The dealers will agree to this if you make it clear to them that if it is an improvement you will buy. They might want a scan of your credit card for insurance but this is pretty standard practice.

Just be carefull the lure of the new model is not sucking you in. I for one have in my stereo hifi system some components that are around 10 years+ old. I've continually "borrowed" latest models to check how it sounds only to find a very marginal if best difference(not necessarily even better) - and hence haven't bothered with an upgrade. If I'd upgraded with every new model released I would have replaced every component about three times now and spent a fortune in the process with not much to show for the result.

By the way if setting up of levels is a concern with 3803 this can be done quite easily using a $50 dse sound level meter. Plenty of people on here including myself will be quite willing to help you out here if your not sure of the process.

Ditto on the help offer

Thanks guys. I know the sensible side of me (which I can ignore at will) says that it's a waste of money to creep up one level.

When I stop to think about it, it's the subwoofer that causes me the most angst - it just doesn't sound right. I've fiddled ad nauseum, but I'm never happy with it. I'm afraid that crossover levels are a complete mystery to me.

Perhaps you can start me off :blink: Should I set the amp to LFE or LFE &Main?

On the back of the woofer, I've got:

Power (set to auto)

xover (set to In)

Phase (set to 100 - choice of 0 and 100)

Are these at least OK?

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ditto again :blink:

I compared a 3805 v mates 3803 when i was "seeking" new reciever and as far a sound quality goes, difference if any would be quite hard to decern.

One thing i noticed and liked on the 3805.... well more disliked on the 3803 was menu setup ablity without needing OSD.

(oh in the end i purchased a Panasonic digital reciever, really provided a "take notice" improvement on previous and demoed gear (including Arcam AVR))

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I think the DAC's in the 3805 are better than the 3803 and not too sure on the ability of the 3803 to upconvert composite/s-video----> to component like the 3805 but yes as all said above not worth changing and the auto setup to me is a no brainer gosh once you set it up that's it! and I still use my very own sound level meter with the 3805

cheers laurie

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By the way if setting up of levels is a concern with 3803 this can be done quite easily using a $50 dse sound level meter. Plenty of people on here including myself will be quite willing to help you out here if your not sure of the process.

Ditto on the help offer

ditto again :blink:

Wow Lynn,

It is amazing how many guys here want to help you...

I don't think I have seen such enthusiasm before.

Good luck with your decision. I have the 3805 coupled with the 3910, and love the way they work together, very happy chappy...

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Thanks guys. I know the sensible side of me (which I can ignore at will) says that it's a waste of money to creep up one level.

When I stop to think about it, it's the subwoofer that causes me the most angst - it just doesn't sound right. I've fiddled ad nauseum, but I'm never happy with it. I'm afraid that crossover levels are a complete mystery to me.

Perhaps you can start me off  :blink:  Should I set the amp to LFE or LFE &Main?

On the back of the woofer, I've got:

Power (set to auto)

xover (set to In)

Phase (set to 100 - choice of 0 and 100)

Are these at least OK?

Mmmm Talk about "Talk the Talk & NOT Walk the Walk"

Lynn

This is my suggested settings to HELP you get started.

LFE = LFE only

Power = Auto is fine provided you have enough signal to turn the plate amp on, in some cases if you have problems connecting both left & right inputs, which in most cases sums the inputs will cure this problem.

Xover = should be bypassed or off

Phase = Normally 0~180deg, this is basically dependent on the location of the sub in relation to the mains, and affects the most at the xover freq. Try both and whatever gives the best bass response is the one to use. A VERY basic rule of thumb is if the sub is located beside the mains 0 setting, and if the sub is located at the rear of the room 180 is the norm.

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Perhaps you can start me off  :blink:  Should I set the amp to LFE or LFE &Main?

On the back of the woofer, I've got:

Power (set to auto)

xover (set to In)

Phase (set to 100 - choice of 0 and 100)

Are these at least OK?

theres a few guys here with the denons that should be able to help you with specific settings on it. With the sub theres Ritesh and Daryllp that I recall have a velodyne - hopefully they can help with the specific settings on it. If they don't drop them a PM.

I run my amp sending lfe to the sub and mains. My mains are quite capable of handling the lfe and it sounds good to me this way. This I believe is a personal preference based on the room, system(other speakers) and sub positioning you have.

power setting is fine on auto the sub just goes to sleep with no signal and comes back on with anything worth reproducing.

Not familair with the xover settings on the velodyne (there should be a dial setting for the specific xover freq?) and whether to turn the sub x over on/off (to use the xover in the amp). I use the xover on the sub - again because this works well for me and my system.

With phase setting as spearmint has said there usually is a switch for 0 & 180 so a bit confused with your switch saying 0 & 100. What spearmint has said on this one is spot on.

there should also be a volume dial on the sub too.

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Thanks guys for injecting a bit of common sense - you've saved me a lot of money. Think I'll just invest in a sound meter. I'm sure that I knew deep down that it was a waste, but it's nice to hear from people more knowledgable than me.

Especially thanks to Spearmint and Alebonau for the tips re the subwoofer set up - makes more sense now. I'll have another play when I get my next days off.

By the way, the Phase is after all 0/180 - should have used a torch. Thanks to you, I now know what it's for. :blink:

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Perhaps you can start me off  :blink:  Should I set the amp to LFE or LFE &Main?

On the back of the woofer, I've got:

Power (set to auto)

xover (set to In)

Phase (set to 100 - choice of 0 and 100)

Are these at least OK?

theres a few guys here with the denons that should be able to help you with specific settings on it. With the sub theres Ritesh and Daryllp that I recall have a velodyne - hopefully they can help with the specific settings on it. If they don't drop them a PM.

I run my amp sending lfe to the sub and mains. My mains are quite capable of handling the lfe and it sounds good to me this way. This I believe is a personal preference based on the room, system(other speakers) and sub positioning you have.

power setting is fine on auto the sub just goes to sleep with no signal and comes back on with anything worth reproducing.

Not familair with the xover settings on the velodyne (there should be a dial setting for the specific xover freq?) and whether to turn the sub x over on/off (to use the xover in the amp). I use the xover on the sub - again because this works well for me and my system.

With phase setting as spearmint has said there usually is a switch for 0 & 180 so a bit confused with your switch saying 0 & 100. What spearmint has said on this one is spot on.

there should also be a volume dial on the sub too.

On the last three paragraphs....on my Velodyne,

- Yep there is a dial to set te xover freq.

- Yep there is a switch to turn the sub xover on/off

- Yep the phases are 0 & 180

- Yep there is a volume dial too....

Lynn, if you do plan to try out different combinations, and see which you like better, these are the things you can play with:

- sending LFE to Sub & main OR just the Sub

- using xover in Receiver OR Sub (if using Sub, play with xover freq. dial)

- Phase to be either 0 OR 180

- volume dial on the sub

- location of the sub in the room

You could either play with the above options, or follow spearmint's and albenau's suggestions which are pretty spot on.....

cheers,

Ritesh

PS: make sure sub. has that "subtle" effect rather than overwhelming everything else (which initially may impress the kids & the teenagers, but is really a quick way to get headache)

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Hi Lynn

Just got a 3805 lst week and I still use my DSE db meter to set my levels.

For $50.00 it's a great tool used in conjunction with a DVD with test tones.

I got the 3805 for it's transcoding and 3 component inputs as my 3 year old Yamaha did not have these features, the sound improvement was just a bonus :blink:

With regards to setting your sub level and crossover, well on the test DVD I use it has a sub phase check, and a sub crossover check which you can use to set the crossover and level to ensure a smooth transition from other speakers to the sub.

Changing the size of speaker settings in your receiver can affect your sub crossover performance substantially so it took a few goes for me get the transition a smooth one.

Have fun tweaking your toys :P

J

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Thanks Ritesh and j slayz - good tips, I'll give them a go when my shiny 3910 arrives (belated thanks to Glenncol). Wont be til after the 7th of next month though - missed the boat with the current stocks :blink:

Where can I get my hands on a "test DVD" for the sub phase check, and sub crossover check? Sounds like that's just what I need.

I think I'm going to be a busy bunny once the new baby is plugged in.

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Thanks Ritesh and j slayz - good tips, I'll give them a go when my shiny 3910 arrives (belated thanks to Glenncol). Wont be til after the 7th of next month though - missed the boat with the current stocks :blink:

Where can I get my hands on a "test DVD" for the sub phase check, and  sub crossover check? Sounds like that's just what I need.

I think I'm going to be a busy bunny once the new baby is plugged in.

Lynn,

Any THX DVD movie will have the "THX Optimiser" under setup options (I use "Finding Nemo"). This has a number of simple audio tests and video tests to set up speakers and displays (including speaker and sub phase). Each will only take a minute or so to complete.

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Now that I'm in a spending mood (thanks ANZ) :blink:  I'm wondering if I should take the plunge and upgrade my 3803 to a 3805.

What attracts me is the auto set up. I know absolutely NOTHING about how to get the best out of my system and I'm always vaguely dissatisfied and think that it should sound better than it does. I've got Dynaudio speakers - which I love to bits and a Velodyne sub woofer, so don't think I'm lacking in that department.

The Denon link would also come in handy.

What do you think - is it worth it? and what could I expect to get for my (pristine) 3803? Any takers?

Grateful for any advice.

Lynn

Hmmm yes the prognosis is definitely upgradeitis. The cure unfortunately is 6 months on a desert island with no electricity I'm afraid....

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