Jump to content

Motogp


Recommended Posts



  • Replies 27
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

As I switch between fox and 10 I see the 125's are about to race and I realise that 10 has it on delay, what are they doing? Why would you have it on showing the rubish they do before the race while the actual race is going on? I would rather watch 10 since it is widescreen but not if it isn't live.

I know this is becuase of the the time difference between eastern and central Australia but they could show it live if they wanted to! Not happy with 10!!!! What about Motogp fans without fox who live in Adelaide!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I switch between fox and 10 I see the 125's are about to race and I realise that 10 has it on delay, what are they doing? Why would you have it on showing the rubish they do before the race while the actual race is going on? I would rather watch 10 since it is widescreen but not if it isn't live.

Switching between Fox (on Austar Sat) and 10 here (Gold Coast) I can't see any delay between the two. The only difference is Fox is in 4:3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone explain to me why channel 10 have the motogp in widescreen but fox have it in 4:3, wouldn't they be using the same cameras?

Perhaps there are two feeds.. 1. Race feed - that goes to the world, and most of the world may request a 4X3 feed. 2. Network feed - the feed that goes to air in Australia and contains all the Aust commentators, stories etc... 10 may be doing this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Perhaps there are two feeds.. 1. Race feed - that goes to the world, and most of the world may request a 4X3 feed.  2. Network feed - the feed that goes to air in Australia and contains all the Aust commentators, stories etc... 10 may be doing this.

Perhaps Ten are doing a channel 7 thing & simple zooming the 4x3 upto 16x9 ???

Wouldn't suprise me. - I suppose Ten have to use their ARC's for something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ten are definitely NOT doing that. I watch the MotoGP (on Ten) all the time, and it is in 4:3. I guess that since Ten is the host broadcaster for the Australian event, they have some freedom about the image (unlike Bernies &&*#*& Formula1^#&E). You can see that all the on screen graphics are 4:3 friendly. So I suppose that they centre cut it for the world market, and Foxtel sports is getting the world feed.

I have done a couple of caps to prove this, sorry about the de-interlacing (there is none, I used a simple TAP to take these caps).

http://tonyspage.abock.de/other_caps/MOTOGP1.jpg

http://tonyspage.abock.de/other_caps/MOTOGP2.jpg

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites



However it looks good half an hour late in SA. Ten's coverage is good (although for motogp the foxtel guys are better) but it takes soo much away when they don't show it live, they do the same 'time zone delay' for F1 and V8 supercars. For v8's it means that the bigpond live timing service is useless and F1 on delay means that you can't use the live telemetry that Renault put up. People on this forum complain about Fox but at least they have a strong commitment to live sport that they show across the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However it looks good half an hour late in SA. Ten's coverage is good (although for motogp the foxtel guys are better) but it takes soo much away when they don't show it live, they do the same 'time zone delay' for F1 and V8 supercars. For v8's it means that the bigpond live timing service is useless and F1 on delay means that you can't use the live telemetry that Renault put up. People on this forum complain about Fox but at least they have a strong commitment to live sport that they show across the country.

Build a bridge (to the east coast) & get over it.

If you don't like it - move - or watch fox.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hehe, for once I agree with "StopWhinging". Turn off fox, ignore it, and don't even worry about the 1/2 hour delay. It isn't like someone is going to phone you up and spoil you, are they? How does it impact YOU when watching it 30mins delayed? It certainly doesn't impact me? With a PVR, I quite often watch a lot of things time shifted, it lets me FF thru the adverts, making the experience far more enjoyable anyway.

I guess the worse prob is not the 1/2 hour delay but the 1am starts that Ten sometimes does for the GP bikes when they really start at 10:30pm... They have altered their news/sports2nite prog schedules for the F1, but not for the bikes.

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  You can see that all the on screen graphics are 4:3 friendly.  So I suppose that they centre cut it for the world market, and Foxtel sports is getting the world feed.

Tony,

There are two "standards" for "4:3 friendly" graphics.

One is "14:9" protect, the other is "4:3" protect.

14:9 protect is designed for the 14:9 "partial" letterbox display on 4:3 monitors (on the analogue service) and 4:3 protect is designed for centre cut display of widescreen material.

It is pretty much a standard that all WS originated material is designed with 14:9 protected graphics in mind, in fact picture framing by cameramen should be 14:9 safe.

This is because the vast majority of viewers are using 4:3 displays, and this safe area protection will be with us for a considerable time.

The 4:3 centre cut action safe area is approximately the same width as the 14:9 title safe area.

14:9 is not a production standard, it is basically an aspect ratio converter setting for transmission of WS material for display on 4:3 screens.

Full width 16:9 display on 4:3 sets is also known as "deep letterbox", and, as you are probably already aware, this type of display has thicker black bars top and bottom of screen than 14:9 displayed material.

Anyway, I am getting a bit off track, but I think you'll find that all networks are creating WS material to the 14:9 protect standards.

As modern 4:3 TV monitors appear to be less overscanned than older TVs, for which I am sure the "safe area" standards were developed, this may result in graphics looking like they are "too" 4:3 friendly.

Despite me getting a little off track, I hope this has been helpful.

Cheers

JB

Link to comment
Share on other sites



John, I would agree with you 100%, but the MotoGP is always 4:3, not 14:9. The graphics etc were overlayed exactly the same as if it was the 4:3 broadcast, but with the "side bits" intact. The camera angles and footage was the same going to Fox, but in 4:3, suggesting that MotoGP uses the host camera's and production, but then overlayed with graphics to a world standard crappy 4:3.

Here, a little demo on the 4:3 cut:

http://tonyspage.dyndns.org:5003/other_caps/MOTOGP2_43.jpg

Regards

Edited by tonymy01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, I would agree with you 100%, but the MotoGP is always 4:3, not 14:9.  The graphics etc were overlayed exactly the same as if it was the 4:3 broadcast, but with the "side bits" intact.    The camera angles and footage was the same going to Fox, but in 4:3, suggesting that MotoGP uses the host camera's and production, but then overlayed with graphics to a world standard crappy 4:3.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at.

From my quick look at the link you posted, that image is not 4:3 title safe.

If it is a centre cut from a true 16:9 transmission, then that would be OK, as a proper 14:9 TX would have the left hand side "1,2,3" graphic inside title safe.

To me, those numbers look part way between 4:3 action safe and title safe.

Cheers

JB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hehe, for once I agree with "StopWhinging".    Turn off fox, ignore it, and don't even worry about the 1/2 hour delay.  It isn't like someone is going to phone you up and spoil you, are they?  How does it impact YOU when watching it 30mins delayed?  It certainly doesn't impact me?    With a PVR, I quite often watch a lot of things time shifted, it lets me FF thru the adverts, making the experience far more enjoyable anyway.

I guess the worse prob is not the 1/2 hour delay but the 1am starts that Ten sometimes does for the GP bikes when they really start at 10:30pm...    They have altered their news/sports2nite prog schedules for the F1, but not for the bikes.

Regards

Tommy01, I think it is quite clear what the impact is if the broadcast is not live; you can't use ather live services such as live timing etc on the Net. Clearly this is frustrating for some people.

I would have thought that this is exactly what these forums are for; ie discussing issues such as this.

Non-constructive posts like your's and stopwhinging's should be left for the playground!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone explain to me why channel 10 have the motogp in widescreen but fox have it in 4:3, wouldn't they be using the same cameras?

You don't say if its Fox digital or analogue?

If its analogue they would not do it in widescreen as I don't think any analogue is widescreen. If its digital its just a matter of as some have pointd out, they (Fox) may be getting a International feed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, yeah I have fox digital. They have the international comentators, so it must be the international feed. Why would this feed be 4:3 though if a 16:9 one is available? Further to this why is F1, which is probably the most technolgicaly advanced sport with more monetry turnover than some countries, be only in 4:3?

Link to comment
Share on other sites



   You can see that all the on screen graphics are 4:3 friendly.   So I suppose that they centre cut it for the world market, and Foxtel sports is getting the world feed.

Tony,

There are two "standards" for "4:3 friendly" graphics.

One is "14:9" protect, the other is "4:3" protect.

14:9 protect is designed for the 14:9 "partial" letterbox display on 4:3 monitors (on the analogue service) and 4:3 protect is designed for centre cut display of widescreen material.

It is pretty much a standard that all WS originated material is designed with 14:9 protected graphics in mind, in fact picture framing by cameramen should be 14:9 safe.

This is because the vast majority of viewers are using 4:3 displays, and this safe area protection will be with us for a considerable time.

The 4:3 centre cut action safe area is approximately the same width as the 14:9 title safe area.

14:9 is not a production standard, it is basically an aspect ratio converter setting for transmission of WS material for display on 4:3 screens.

Full width 16:9 display on 4:3 sets is also known as "deep letterbox", and, as you are probably already aware, this type of display has thicker black bars top and bottom of screen than 14:9 displayed material.

Anyway, I am getting a bit off track, but I think you'll find that all networks are creating WS material to the 14:9 protect standards.

As modern 4:3 TV monitors appear to be less overscanned than older TVs, for which I am sure the "safe area" standards were developed, this may result in graphics looking like they are "too" 4:3 friendly.

Despite me getting a little off track, I hope this has been helpful.

Cheers

JB

I noticed this in the indycar telecast on the weekend which , like the motoGP, was shown locally in widesreen when all the overseas events are shown 4:3. I recorded the race and ended up watching some of it on a 4:3 TV in pan&scan. The edges of the graphics were just off the sides of the screen so it must have been produced with a 14:9 safe area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I noticed this in the indycar telecast on the weekend which , like the motoGP, was shown locally in widesreen when all the overseas events are shown 4:3.  I recorded the race and ended up watching some of it on a 4:3 TV in pan&scan.  The edges of the graphics were just off the sides of the screen so it must have been produced with a 14:9 safe area.

Why would it be 14:9 safe when it is always broadcast in 4:3??

When you say "edge of graphics", some of the graphics are kind of "stretched" to the edge so the 16:9 doesn't look silly with graphics in the middle of the screen. Is this what you meant? Because I did a 4:3 centre cut of it for testing purposes, and it looked fine with no text or icons truncated?

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I noticed this in the indycar telecast on the weekend which , like the motoGP, was shown locally in widesreen when all the overseas events are shown 4:3.  I recorded the race and ended up watching some of it on a 4:3 TV in pan&scan.  The edges of the graphics were just off the sides of the screen so it must have been produced with a 14:9 safe area.

Why would it be 14:9 safe when it is always broadcast in 4:3??

When you say "edge of graphics", some of the graphics are kind of "stretched" to the edge so the 16:9 doesn't look silly with graphics in the middle of the screen. Is this what you meant? Because I did a 4:3 centre cut of it for testing purposes, and it looked fine with no text or icons truncated?

Regards

The champcars we get from overseas is in 4:3 (with the worst graphical info I have seen on a motorsport telecast for years IMO) but the local race was produced and telecast locally in 16:9. I have seen a couple of supercar races through the year on analogue and they have been using the 14:9 format (with narrow black bars top and bottom) so, although I did not see any of the analogue telecast for the champcars, I assume they used the 14:9 format which makes it feasible they used a 14:9 safe area.

Did you look at your 4:3 centrecut on a PC monitor or a TV? Maybe whatever you looked at it on had less overscan than my TV so it was not as obvious? When they showed the position list down the left side of the screen I could only see the right edge of the first letter of each name. Some of this would be the TVs overscan but don't they factor in a certain amount of overscan when they assign safe areas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Certainly sounds like it is not quite 4:3 from your explanation. I still have it recorded on my Toppy, I will take another look tonight (I was basing my discussions on doing the 4:3 centre cut on the Saturday stuff).

I guess that perhaps the centre cut needs to be offset a little to one side?

I agree about the on screen graphics too, awful when it comes from OS (the F1 isn't that much better when it comes from an NTSC country either!). I guess with only 480 lines of realestate, scrolling text etc looks pretty lousy, esp. after going thru a NTSC->PAL conversion.

On second guessing, I suppose it may have been a 4:3 NTSC friendly cut, or even as you have said, a 14:9 cut of it may have worked for the NTSC world, because then to do the PAL->NTSC conversion, the Yanks can just chop off the top and bottom black bits of the 4:3 with 14:9 encapsulated image and end up with about 480 lines, so you may be right.

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top