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Digital vs analog recorders


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This forum is entitled DVD & Hard Disk Drive Recorders. It is part of the Digital Broadcasting Authority website.

Yet I have yet to see a DVD recorder that records a digital signal!!!

People regularly post here asking "Which DVD recorder should I buy?" yet the models they offer up for comparison are inevitably all analog models.

I figure that if people are informed enough to navigate to this website then surely they would have some realisation of the benefits of digital over analog, including the impending termination of analog broadcasts.

Am I wrong? Is there a DVD recorder available in Australia that records digital FTA TV?

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This forum is entitled DVD & Hard Disk Drive Recorders.  It is part of the Digital Broadcasting Authority website.

Yet I have yet to see a DVD recorder that records a digital signal!!!

People regularly post here asking "Which DVD recorder should I buy?" yet the models they offer up for comparison are inevitably all analog models.

I figure that if people are informed enough to navigate to this website then surely they would have some realisation of the benefits of digital over analog, including the impending termination of analog broadcasts.

Am I wrong?  Is there a DVD recorder available in Australia that records digital FTA TV?

You are of course right ToeCutter however where is the harm in educating others about the difference between Analoge and digital devices. I don't always agree with what is said, but I defend there right to say it !

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Am I wrong?  Is there a DVD recorder available in Australia that records digital FTA TV?

To the best of my knowledge, no, there isn't a DVD recorder with in-built digital tuner, and the reason as Faking pointed out is copy protection. In fact I have even read of some DVD recorders, not recording a show when a Digital STB is pluged in, so I guess when analog goes, your stuffed. Welcome to the tip of the ice-berg when it comes to DRM.

The 'studios' don't want you easily recording a quality signal on removable media as they believe it will increase piracy.

As we all know, this is bull, tho I have no doubt they (studios, etc) all think it is a valid point. But seriously, if your going to "pirate" in a local market or something, hands up here who thinks the would be pirates say: "Well, since I can't just push a button on my DVD recorder and get a digital recorded DVD, I guess I'll just give up."

And if the Studios really think this, then I would like to sell them some pix-dust, costs only 1 million dollars and will solve everything :blink:

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So have the manufacturers caved to pressure from the studios? I'm surprised there isn't a renegade Chinese company (or similar) who has decided to capitalise on this area of the market.

Perhaps there should be some sort of organised media blitz from DBA members to inform the general public that not only is their new DVD recorder an inferior product, but it will also be a redundant product in a few short years.

When analog switches off, even VCRs won't work, and I can't see people giving up recording of shows and going back to 1978 when you had to be home to watch a show as it was broadcast.

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When analog switches off, even VCRs won't work, and I can't see people giving up recording of shows and going back to 1978 when you had to be home to watch a show as it was broadcast.

Yeah, many ppl are going to get a big shock. I am sure that plenty don't realise that both the TV and the VCR have a tuner. Hence why they can watch one show and record another. Its things like this which make me think analog will be around way past 2008.

As for why some renegade Chinese company hasn't released a DVD recorder with a digital tuner, I expect there just isn't that many ppl that know what is really going on. Plus in such a cut price market that those imports operate in, the extra cost of the digital tuner would mean they wouldn't sell to ppl that just don't have a clue, ie 90% of the public :blink:

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When I queried this with an importer a couple of months ago I was told it was to do with the (relative) lack of coverage area for digital signals in Australia. They were worried that they would put a true digital recorder on the market and people would buy it from a city location and try to get it working elsewhere where there is no digital signal and complain that the unit was faulty and demand a refund.

The particular company said that they were committed to eventually bringing a true digital recorder to Australia when they felt that the signal coverage area was large enough.

It sounded plausible to me.

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Yeah, many ppl are going to get a big shock. I am sure that plenty don't realise that both the TV and the VCR have a tuner. Hence why they can watch one show and record another. Its things like this which make me think analog will be around way past 2008.

A lot of people said that about the analog mobile phone network. I remember taking bets in 1998 from people who swore black and blue it'd never happen.

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Guest chris-sinclair

Not having a digital TV tuner in DVD recorders in Australia is too me all on copyright and costs.

I can connect a STB or a STB HDD to the DVD HDD recorder without a problem.

The manufactures are saving money by having analog tuners and saving themselves the legal position of digital TV as well.

The only way to record true SDTV is on a Toppy 120 GB HDD recorder.

The model is: TF5000PVRt

Check out at Topfield: http://www.topfield-australia.com.au/

This one got digital SD dual tuner. I can watch one SD channel and record on the other at the same time.

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The only way to record true SDTV is on a Toppy 120 GB HDD recorder

That's a very leading statement, what about these:

SD-DVR DTR6000AU Hard Drive: 40GB; Video: Scart (CVBS, RCA) Audio: S/PDIF $679 Now

SD-DVR KTF-570H Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: Scart (Component); Audio: S/PDIF $499 Now

SD-DVR LASR0002 Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: S-Video, Composite: Audio: S/PDIF Optical $599 Now

SD-DVR LASR0001 Twin SD tuners; Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: S-video, composite; Audio: S/PDIF Optical $799 Now

SD-DVR ODT 4200PVR Twin SD tuners; Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: Scart (S-Video, Composite); Audio: S/PDIF Optical $699 Now

SD-DVR SRT5390C Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: Scart (Composite), S-Video; Audio: S/PDIF Coaxial $599 Now

SD-DVR SRT5390B Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: Scart (Composite), S-Video; Audio: S/PDIF Coaxial $599 Now

SD-DVR TF5000PVR-T Twin SD tuners; Hard Drive: 120GB; Video: Scart (RGB, S-Video, Composite); Audio: S/PDIF Optical $1,099 Now

SD-DVR Force 5 Hard Drive: 80GB; Video: Component; Audio: S/PDIF $699 Now

SD-DVR Force 5 Hard Drive: 160GB; Video: Component; Audio: S/PDIF $899 Now

SD-DVR Force 7 Twin SD tuners; Hard Drive: 160GB; Vdeo: Component; Audio: S/PDIF $1,199 Dec 04

http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=18&so=2&sd=asc

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I am not sure, but I belief that it has technical reasons for not having a digital DVD recorder on the market.

Firstly it has to be virtually impossible to burn a DVD on the fly, ie transcoding a TS file into a proprietary DVD file without a buffer. That would mean that one needs a HDD. Now we have a Toppy.

Secondly, what resolution should be recorded? If it is HD then a 4.7 DVD would run out of puff within a few minutes, depending what sound the AC-3 carries, 5.1 or Dolby. If on the other hand SD would do, then not much benefit is gained burning a DVD as a S-VideoRecorder would do a better job.

Putting all that together into one box would be out of reach for too many.

As long as we can’t do it on a computer we can’t expect it in a stand-alone box. Remember how much effort it takes to decode those wretched TS files.

(If we talk about the Topfield, then we are actually able to record TWO channels and watch a previous recorded on all at the same time. Topfield has changed this statement recently though because of some people wincing that maybe a bit of pixilation can happen in the recordings.)

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Guest chris-sinclair

The only way to record true SDTV is on a Toppy 120 GB HDD recorder.

The model is: TF5000PVRt

I've only got an 80GB Topfield. I guess that won't work :P

Of course, any Toppy can record from digital TV as would any STB HDD recorder.

The same model number anyway, only the HDD is different. :blink:

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A lot of people said that about the analog mobile phone network.  I remember taking bets in 1998 from people who swore black and blue it'd never happen.

Well, Toe, even tho i'm not one to gamble, I think I would take that bet!

Especially if your saying that analog WILL be turned off during 2008. I am sure it will happen, just don't think so in the next 4 years.

I think the reason for the mobile network is its high turn over. This has to be partly due to the fact that many ppl get the phone for "free" on a plan. So in say 2 years, the plan ends, they sign up for a new one and get a new phone, which funny enough now works on the new network.

The last time we replaced our TV was when the old one broke, the VCR, while now having a couple of small problems, is still the first one we ever got.

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I must admit I do not really understand what the fuss is about. Sure it would be nice to have a digital tuner in your DVD recorder but most DVD recorders have plenty of inputs allowing you to record form your STB etc in widescreen.

I'm probably missing something obvious here though :blink:

Nick

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I'm probably missing something obvious here though :blink:

Yup. What happens when you want to watch one thing and record another with a setup like that?

You either need another STB or you will have to put up with analogue reception for one of the concurrent programs.

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ToeCutter, the Primary reason there are no DVD-DVR's with Digital tuners (anywhere not just Aus) is that 4.5Gb is only enuf room for about 2.5 hours of TV.

Considering most ppl expect 3-5 hours out of a VHS video tape & 6-10 Hours using Long Play, the average Joe Consumer is going to think 2.5 hours of recording is crap no matter how good it looks!

Maybe, Just maybe, when Dual Layer Tech (8.5Gb = aprox 5-6 Hours SD) becomes "cheap" & media is readily available you will see DVR's with Digital Tuner's. (The're still going to need HDD's for Timeshifting etc)

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At Digital TV bitrates is closer to 90min on a DVD which isn't nearly enough for a movie with ads. If you could delete the ads acurately it's good it's almost good enough for most movies. If you could comfortably fit all movies onto one DVD I don't think most people would be bothered with less recording time on DVD than VHS especially with the HDD doing most of the recording and DVD for keeping...

But as it is it doesn't really work...yet. Dual layer disc recording...one day :blink:

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ToeCutter, the Primary reason there are no DVD-DVR's with Digital tuners (anywhere not just Aus) is that 4.5Gb is only enuf room for about 2.5 hours of TV.

It's not even that good, I usually get 1.5- 2 hours of SD television onto a single layer DVD depending on bitrate used by the station.

True, the best I've managed is A Space odessy: 2001 from my toppy to DVD. That was about 2 hours. Looked bloody great tho!

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ToeCutter, the Primary reason there are no DVD-DVR's with Digital tuners (anywhere not just Aus) is that 4.5Gb is only enuf room for about 2.5 hours of TV.

It's not even that good, I usually get 1.5- 2 hours of SD television onto a single layer DVD depending on bitrate used by the station.

True, the best I've managed is A Space odessy: 2001 from my toppy to DVD. That was about 2 hours. Looked bloody great tho!

I think SBS must use a lower bitrate as I can usually get 2 hours of SBS but only 1.5 of any of the other stations onto a DVD which pretty much rules out scheduling any more than one standard one hour show and forget about movies. I should point out that I don't have a standalone DVD recorder but a HTPC with a DVBT card and my comments are based on this.

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ToeCutter, the Primary reason there are no DVD-DVR's with Digital tuners (anywhere not just Aus) is that 4.5Gb is only enuf room for about 2.5 hours of TV.

It's not even that good, I usually get 1.5- 2 hours of SD television onto a single layer DVD depending on bitrate used by the station.

True, the best I've managed is A Space odessy: 2001 from my toppy to DVD. That was about 2 hours. Looked bloody great tho!

I think SBS must use a lower bitrate as I can usually get 2 hours of SBS but only 1.5 of any of the other stations onto a DVD which pretty much rules out scheduling any more than one standard one hour show and forget about movies. I should point out that I don't have a standalone DVD recorder but a HTPC with a DVBT card and my comments are based on this.

Author the files somehow to VOB, and then use DVD Shrink. Bull it back slightly too about 4.3 Gig and burn it. The quality is very good, but if you don’t like it try something else.

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