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Sony KVHX32M31 vs. Panasonic TX-76PW200A


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Hi folks.

I'm considering purchasing either Sony KVHX32M31 or Panasonic TX-76PW200A.

I think I can purchase either HDTV for < $2K in Brisbane.

I'd like to consider the Sony KVHR32M31, but it's to expensive for me.

Q. Firstly, does anyone know the actual max. resolution of these TVs?

I've read that the TX-76PW200A can display 1100*1080i.

However, Sony won't reveal the max. resolution of the KVHX32M31.

Sony stated that they don't measure the resolution of this TV.

Yet they openly admit that the max. resolution of the KVHR32M31 is 1440*1080i.

Q. Does the KVHX32M31 display a similar max. resolution to the TX-76PW200A?

The KVHX32M31 displays 720p & 1080i @ 50/60Hz and has a VGA connection.

Q. Which is the better TV and why?

Q. What is the best price you guys have been able to achieve with these sets?

Thanks heaps in advance.

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No competition on PQ ... the Pana 200A wins hands down!

Volvo Sony are misleading you with the 1440x1080 claim for the HR - or they mis-heard your question! I have physically measured the resolution of the 32HR at ~1,000 horizontal ... and if you see it next to the 200A you will see that the 1,100 horizontal claim by Panasonic is entirely realistic. The Sony HX is definitely lower res than the HR (roughly equivalent to the older Pana 60A - 150A models).

However, build quality and after-sales support must come into the equation. IMO, even Sony wins this one on build quality - and both lose on after-sales problem solving.

Hope this helps,

Ian

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http://www.theperfectvision.com/newsletter...kv34xbr910.html

Here is the link it is the US model which is the same as the Aussie model apart from DVI & minor differences.It states 1400 lines.

Interesting that you quote specs for the US 34XBR (equivalent to the HR36 here - not the HR32 that we were discussing) to "correct" my actual measurement of an HR32!

Now I must go and measure the HR36 here as well - because if it is indeed 1,401 (not 1440 or 1400) x 1,080 then it would indeed be worth the extra cash over the 32HR or Pana 200A.

I presume you vote Labor - and never let the facts get in the way of a good rumour?

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Sorry to disappoint you Ian I am not a Labor voter however I am open minded, getting back to the specs I assumed the 76cm & the 86cm were the same however you may be correct.

As for the number of lines the 1440 figure was off the top of my head, sorry about that.

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Sorry to disappoint you Ian I am not a Labor voter however I am open minded, getting back to the specs I assumed the 76cm & the 86cm were the same however you may be correct.

As for the number of lines the 1440 figure was off the top of my head, sorry about that.

... and I'm sorry that I stupidly dragged politics into this thread.

Thanks for the link, though ... it might just have forced me to put the HR36 back onto my shopping list with its 1,401 horizontal pixel 'native' resolution. OTOH, Toshiba claims 1,932 x 1,152 for their 86cm 36SW9UA and it would be easier for me to move. More decisions and fact checking still required!

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Sorry to disappoint you Ian I am not a Labor voter however I am open minded, getting back to the specs I assumed the 76cm & the 86cm were the same however you may be correct.

As for the number of lines the 1440 figure was off the top of my head, sorry about that.

... and I'm sorry that I stupidly dragged politics into this thread.

Thanks for the link, though ... it might just have forced me to put the HR36 back onto my shopping list with its 1,401 horizontal pixel 'native' resolution. OTOH, Toshiba claims 1,932 x 1,152 for their 86cm 36SW9UA and it would be easier for me to move. More decisions and fact checking still required!

Ian didn't you do a linen test once on your TV to check displayed resolution - you'd just need to do the same with the sony and tosh to know the answer. I think it would get the sales drones very concerned, curious , confused and perhaps a bit worried with you up to the screen with the linen tester !!! hehehe would be a funny sight!

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Ian didn't you do a linen test once on your TV to check displayed resolution - you'd just need to do the same with the sony and tosh to know the answer. I think it would get the sales drones very concerned, curious , confused and perhaps a bit worried with you up to the screen with the linen tester !!! hehehe would be a funny sight!

Hi Al,

HN were quite cooperative when I measured the HR32. Well ... Junior Drone was interested - while Senior Drone kept rabbiting on about how "you're wasting your time - only plasmas can display HD"!!! :blink:

However, the best way [for my eyesight - and to avoid parallax error] is to use a digital camera in combination with the linen tester so that I can accurately count the lines on the large PC monitor back at home. Sony Central have agreed to let me come in and do it with all their models, but I have never had the camera with me when passing .......

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Ian didn't you do a linen test once on your TV to check displayed resolution - you'd just need to do the same with the sony and tosh to know the answer. I think it would get the sales drones very concerned, curious , confused and perhaps a bit worried with you up to the screen with the linen tester !!! hehehe would be a funny sight!

Hi Al,

HN were quite cooperative when I measured the HR32. Well ... Junior Drone was interested - while Senior Drone kept rabbiting on about how "you're wasting your time - only plasmas can display HD!!". :blink:

However, the best way [for my eyesight - and to avoid parallax error] is to use a digital camera in combination with the linen tester so that I can accurately count the lines on the large PC monitor back at home. Sony Central have agreed to let me come in and do it with all their models, but I have never had the camera with me when passing .......

hehe never thought about that a linen tester and digital camera - essential equipment for any serious HDTV reviewer!. I have one of these linen testers too can you believe(from my textile industry days) might give it a try with the hitachi when I get bored one weekend.

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<snip> might give it a try with the hitachi when I get bored one weekend.

I think we can believe 1024x1024 for your plasma, Al - but CRT manufacturers are suspiciously cagey about revealing anything about performance (brightness, contrast, native resolution, tube half-life, etc).

Sony only puts the size, weight and colour in their 'specs' for anything.

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However, the best way [for my eyesight - and to avoid parallax error] is to use a digital camera in combination with the linen tester so that I can accurately count the lines on the large PC monitor back at home. Sony Central have agreed to let me come in and do it with all their models, but I have never had the camera with me when passing .......

chomp ... chomp ... munch, munch, munch ... chomp ... chomp

Sorry, shouldn't talk with my mouth full - of humble pie and hat!!

Took the camera and linen tester on my NEC hunt this arvo and snapped a few tele's while I was at it. Heck ... I didn't realise how much [over-corrected] parallax error there was in my initial measurement of the HR32 by [poor] close eyesight!!

Anyway, my corrected horizontal resolution results are:

Toshiba 32sw8 = ~850 pixels

Toshiba 32sw9 = [not found today]

Sony HX32 = ~890 pixels

Sony HR32 = ~1,440 pixels (previously reported by me as ~1,000)

Sony HR36 = ~1,440 pixels

I'll post the close-ups later when I find an hour to muck around.

I would like to humbly apologise to RobertR for getting so snappy when he corrected my earlier figure!!!!!

I'd also like to apologise to anyone who might now regret a purchase decision based on my earlier posts. I will definitely go out on Monday and try to test both the 76cm and 86cm Toshiba SW9 and Pana 200A models to complete the comparison.

Ian

E&OE

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Suprised by the low res picked up on the tosh (only 850 pixels)

From the toshiba website

http://www.castel.com.au/Toshiba/ProductDe...uctCode=32SW8UA

32SW8UA

32SW8UA - the new definition of Visual and Audio pleasure. Digital Hyper - Toshiba's proprietary technology - has the ability to convert all input signals into high-resolution signals. Horizontal pixels can reach upto 1931 lines while vertical scanning can achieve 1152 lines (based on 576i/576p input signal). To supplement the High Definition conversion, 32SW8UA also realizes 3 new technologies, namely the Digital Hyper Signal Processing System, Diagonal Line Improvement System, and New Fine Cinema Mode.

Digital Hyper Signal Processing System

16:9 Flat Widescreen

High Definition Compatible* (720p/1080i 50/60Hz)

Fine-Pitch CRT

2 DVD Component Video Inputs

3-Dimensional Y/C Separator (NTSC)

SRS WOW Sound System

Super Woofer

http://www.castel.com.au/Toshiba/ProductDe...uctCode=32SW9UA

32SW9UA

The 32SW9UA is a new definition of Visual and Audio pleasure. Digital Hyper - Toshiba's proprietary technology - has the ability to convert all input signals into high-resolution signals. Horizontal pixels can reach upto 1931 lines while vertical scanning can achieve 1152 lines (based on 576i/576p input signal). To supplement the High Definition conversion, 32SW9UA also realizes 3 new technologies, namely the Digital Hyper Signal Processing System, Diagonal Line Improvement System, and New Fine Cinema Mode. The built-in card slot (for digital camera SD-Card and Smart Media Card) enables you to simply slot in the card and enjoy high quality images on a big screen. Visit our Reviews section to see what the experts say.

Digital Hyper Signal Processing System

16:9 Flat Widescreen

High Definition Compatible* (720p/1080i 50/60Hz)

Bridge Media (SD Card and Smart Media Card Slot)

Double Window

Fine-Pitch CRT

2 DVD Component Video Inputs

3-Dimensional Y/C Separator (NTSC)

SRS WOW Sound System

Super Woofer

anyway both 32sw8ua and 32sw9ua have the same specs only differnce is the card reader so you should not find any difference in the two. Still suprised its only 850 pixels for the tosh given the claims in their specs. You 100% sure on your technique.

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Suprised by the low res picked up on the tosh (only 850 pixels)

Me too! I also believed their resolution claims after seeing the apparent PQ next to other sets. However, as I have said many times here, I have never seen one "properly set up" so I have been discounting the problems I saw on the basis of setup rather than [as I now believe] blatant lies in Toshiba's claims. (Yes. I'm now prepared to defend a libel suit if Tosh wants to have a go!)

Thank [whoever is up there] that I didn't just buy one in blind faith that I could 'correct' these problems myself at home!!!! (Believe me, there were many times when I was tempted to just do this out of sheer frustration with the AV shopping experience). :blink:

You 100% sure on your technique,

I'm never "100% sure" of anything! However, I'm 'reasonably sure' that my technique is now accurate to within about 5% in absolute terms - and certainly accurate in relative terms between each set. That is, if Sony's claim of 1,401 for the HR is the correct 'native' res, then the figure of 850 for the Toshiba is also correct. However, if Sony's 1,401 number is to be interpreted as "TV Lines" (ie. after discounting native by 20% for overscan, Kell-factor, etc), then the 'native' resolutions of all sets (including the HR) needs to be increased by 30%.

When I get around to uploading and linking to the close-ups, you will be even more impressed with the HR and the Trinitron mask when compared with the Tosh (and others) with a conventional mask. I was blown away - and also finally realised why the Sony has that 'softer' (ie. smoother) look! :P Owen will know what I mean, 'cos his CRT PJ has no mask. :P

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When I get around to uploading and linking to the close-ups, you will be even more impressed with the HR and the Trinitron mask when compared with the Tosh (and others) with a conventional mask. I was blown away - and also finally realised why the Sony has that 'softer' (ie. smoother) look! :blink:  Owen will know what I mean, 'cos his CRT PJ has no mask. :P

Good work Ian. I'll be pretty keen to see your uploads if you can put it somewhere we can link to. Has been a bit of area of curiousity too for me. Tells me one thing that my eyes were not lying when I did my comparisons with the panasonic and the Sony. Yes thank god I too just didn't run out and buy the tosh when it came out.

By the way Sony got ito a lot of hot water a few years back with resolution claims a few years back now. Thats why you won't find any mention of it anywhere on their TV specs now.

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For the technically-inclined, this is why an absolute measurement is difficult with my method - and why relative measurements between sets are fairly accurate:

                      *
                     *
                     *  ____
           |         *    |
           |         *    |
 * ..2cm.. | ..?cm.. *    1.0 cm measurement window
           |         *    |
 ^         |         *  ____
 |                   *
 |         ^         *
 |         |         *
Eye or     Linen    Pixels
Lens       Tester

In the above example, the distance between the Linen Tester (resting on the front glass) and the pixels (on the back surface of the tube face) is a short - but unknown! - distance that comprises the actual air gap between the protective glass and the tube, plus the thicknesses of both the front glass and the tube wall.

The distance between the camera lens and the Tester is also a very short distance (about 2cm) that is somewhat greater than the distance between Tester and pixels. (Ideally, the camera should be at an infinite distance from the Tester).

This means that the 5 pixels (in the above example) that we are trying to measure against the 1cm scale on the Tester will be seen by the camera (or eyeball) as about 7 pixels - given that the subtended angle from lens to observed pixels is approximately 60 degrees.

If the Sony HR36 (and the earlier HX36) is an accurate(?) benchmark, I have found that the observed pixels must be discounted by approximately 25% to arrive at the actual pixels - giving a Tester-to-Pixels distance for the HR36 of around 0.7cm, which seems reasonable to me.

Note also that the refractive indexes of the front glass and the tube glass would slightly affect the results - as would the aperture setting of the camera.

However, the relative measurements between different sets would remain roughly constant - given that measurements are at similar brightnesses (ie. aperture) and the sets all use similar construction techniques (protective glass as close as possible to the tube).

Sorry to bore the non-technical, but some might find this interesting! :blink:

Ian

E&OE

Edited by ijd
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Tells me one thing that my eyes were not lying when I did my comparisons with the panasonic and the Sony.

Very true! And we should all take note that you trusted your eyes over the specs (and people like me who still believed the published specs and "poor setups" for the Toshibas - even though I never trust specs in the hifi world, only my own ears and those of trusted reviewers who have actually heard a variety of true 'high-end' systems!!!).

Edited by ijd
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Does anyone recommend a HD STB that goes well with the PANASONIC TX76PW200A? I have read a few posts about the PANSONIC HD box (new one)...

youve read a few posts on the panasonic hd box and still considering it - you must be joking, surely theres a better out there.

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Does anyone recommend a HD STB that goes well with the PANASONIC TX76PW200A? I have read a few posts about the PANSONIC HD box (new one)...

youve read a few posts on the panasonic hd box and still considering it - you must be joking, surely theres a better out there.

Yeh, it does not sound that flash, saw a MEDIASTAR HD box at DME HI FI the other day, they seem alright..

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Hi guys, I initiated the thread: Sony KVHX32M31 vs. Panasonic TX-76PW200A.

Thanks to all that responded to the thread. Your comments have been fantastic.

Particularly, ijd. Mate, it's good to see that you're: "keeping the bastards honest".

Ian, what were the horizontal resolutions of the Panasonic TX-76 & 86 PW200A?

Do you still believe that the Toshiba 32SW8UA / 9UA & 36SW9UA have the best picture quality of all the current CRT HDTVs?

Or are the Sony KVHR32 & 36 M31 the benchmarks for picture quality?

Finally, have you uploaded your pictures of the HDTVs you photographed?

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