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Hitachi 42PD5000TA


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Hi folks,

I'll be taking delivery of my new Hitachi 42PD5000TA in unit mid-October. Joy!

Looked to be the best value deal for a very good picture. I've been reading a little on the forum about the STB's that can be married to this unit (as well as other connections). Here's what I propose to do:

HD-STB: Teac HD unit using DVI input for video & optical sound to Sony surround sound receiver AND conventional leads to Hitachi inputs (3.5 jacks if I read correctly), for this times when I don't really need surround sound. As I see it the TEAC can handle this, with LG a close second. Opinions anyone? I've been seeing pretty good things about the TEAC unit. If anyone has heard anything contrary, I'd be grateful to hear it.

DVD. Connect video using component out (RGB) and optical cable to Sony SS unit. Not sure if I can connect the DVD to Hitachi audio inputs as well or if the DVD defaults to optical. I'll see.

VCR. Dunno. I'm thinking direct connection to Sony SS unit then through to Hitachi...it's the only way I can see to get reasonable sound as the VCR unit has only one output.

Xbox. Hmmm. I have the AV upgrade adaptopr, so connect via S-video & optical cable, Sadly no component output available.

Lastly, what, if anything, should I look out for with this model in regard to faults, etc? I see there have been some comments regarding a loud buzzing: all of the other issues seem to have been resolved through a mix of allowing the unit to "bed in" over a couple of weeks and making sure the best connections are used. Harvey Norman tried to convince me to buy EXPEN$IVE component leads (gold etc), however I'm sure there is some middle ground $'s wise: can anyone make some recommendations?

I found this site particularly valuable in terms of what works best in given circumstances: Ram electronics

Look forward to hearing from you!

gaf.

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How much can u bargain for this unit ?

Since u haven't bought it yet, i advice u to hold yourself a little longer for a better model along with better spec.

I am the owner of this exact model of plamsa, since i have had this unit for a while,i can tell u that i am a little bit regret of rushing myself on buying this thing at that moment. If i have a choice again i rather wait for another a year or 2, for the LCD. Once the LCD have solved the black level problems, it will be fine. LCD have the following advantage.

Ideal for PC application

Can support maximum HDTV resolution

No Burn in problems

The LCD have improved the response time, Viewing angle issues already, so the next scenario i reckon it is going to be the black level issue.

The best plasma in the market cannot archieve the best resolution for HDTV and it is not ideal for PC application.

If you'd refer plasma for the moment and can't wait for that long, i am still suggesting u to get the model that is 1024x768 as for 42", it has more balanced pixel, it support progressive scan signal better, and the next generation of plasma will support much more color than this model.

This Hitachi only support 16.7million colors, which divided into 3 channels of colors and it is 256 levels each, and it is 256x256x256 to produce 16.7m of colors.

The current model of Panasonic and Pioneer are support up to 1,070million colors which has 1024 gradation level.

The next generation of Pansonic which will release very soon and is going to support 3.8 billion colors, and the pioneer one is about 5 billion colors

And now the latest NEC plasma can even support up to 68 billion colors, so what i am trying to say is, this current hitachi model support the lowest colors range, and resulting to appear to have more poor solarisation effect. However with the best setting u can reduce the worse scene but u still can notice the problem from time to time.

I suggest u go and have a research on the following and compare between each plasma,

Progressive vs interlace

Color level

HDTV resolution

Plasma side effect

Honestly i am feeling terrible now i almost wanted to sell my plasma however because i have done this in finance, if i sell it i will lose a lot of money. I am now rather paying off this one, so next time really gotta wait for a little longer and do more research.

An amazing thing gotta tell u is i have owning this model for only 2 months, and during this 2 months, i see so many better thing release during this period. Wait and take more research and get more opinion from other people. And don't trust the Salesman, They usually don't know much about any technical terms. And they don't test it for you unless u really want to buy it.

The time you watched at the store place, there isn't the same feeling back home, u actually feeling really great in store, but when you are starting to testing out different things at home, u will be very surprised, and by that time u will understand what i am talking about now.

p.s Although this panel is not bad, but when u compare to some others, it is not that good.

Regard

Ray

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Another thing, when u are watching dvd on a plasma, the way you seeing it, it isn't dvd quality like on crt, it is between the quality of a VHS and a DVD resolution, to make it look like DVD quality on a plamsa , u really need to feed in HD signal to make it looks like a DVD picture quality.

Blue-Ray Disk is going to be High-Definition media, but it won't release til the mid of next year. And the Digital Broadcasting Channel, Not all channel are on true HD, some HD looks like SD. And some are not even 16x9 format too..

Better watch this things out.

Regard

Ray

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I am also a Hitachi owner and agree in general - there are better sets out now for very little more money.

Also I would think the new Hitachi's with better grey levels will be here before Christmas if you really like the ALIS panel.

I had a look at the 42" Panasonic Viera on Saturday and was impressed but as usual it was running the ch9 HD loop and most sets look good with that so I couldn't really judge solarisation etc...

Also the new NEC sounds like it's definately worth a look

If you are tied in with the current deal then no sweat I am sure that in general you will be happy with your choice, (as I am 95% of the time) - give it a few weeks for you and the set to settle in, don't judge it on what you see out of the box.

BTW as far as TX buzzing - there are a lot of reports from overseas about this but mine (37") is totally silent, as is my mates 42"

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As you are getting an HD STB, there is no point in getting the TA model (which includes an analogue tuner). Save yourself $1500 and get the MA model.

You should connect the Teac STB via DVI.

As for DVD, Component and RGB are NOT the same. You would normally connect your DVD via component cables.

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Obviously it makes perfect sense to check out all the available options out there in the way of panels before buying the one thats perfect for you.

Certainly if you have chosen the hitachi, I like a few others on here have one and it can give you some quite spectacular images. Yes there is the settling in period and it is very revealing of poor signal and can look a bit ordinary on some source material - I think its quite acceptable off the internal tuner & a vcr and great off either a hd or sd stb and dvd.

Certainly think the teac HD box is the best out there and yes do hook up via dvi and the 3.5mm audio to the panel (jaycar sell a gold plated 3.5mm stereo to rca lead at a pretty good price) . You probably want to run optical out from the stb to your sony HT system.

For DVD don't run video out via your HT amp - hook up your dvd player directly to your panel. If hooking up via component, I've found, and many on here think the same, that the $70 Jaycar component cables in the red presentation box is about the best you can get for the job. You can hook up audio from your dvd to your ht amp either via optical or coax depending on which ever is available. You can also run analog audio to the panel if you wish via rca cables (again jaycars rcas are just fine for the job).

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I am also a Hitachi owner and agree in general - there are better sets out now for very little more money.

Also I would think the new Hitachi's with better grey levels will be here before Christmas if you really like the ALIS panel.

I had a look at the 42" Panasonic Viera on Saturday and was impressed but as usual it was running the ch9 HD loop and most sets look good with that so I couldn't really judge solarisation etc...

Also the new NEC sounds like it's definately worth a look

If you are tied in with the current deal then no sweat I am sure that in general you will be happy with your choice, (as I am 95% of the time) - give it a few weeks for you and the set to settle in, don't judge it on what you see out of the box.

BTW as far as TX buzzing - there are a lot of reports from overseas about this but mine (37") is totally silent, as is my mates 42"

After sending the Marnatz back and looking at every HD plasma on the market i can tell you the NEC is the best there is at the moment.

Looking at the upcoming Pioneer 435 series it will only have 2040 shades of grey and 6.1 billion colours then there is the Panasonic series 7 (If it comes to Oz) that will have the same specs.

Where the NEC is 4096 shades of grey and 68.1 billion colours with these spec solarisation is a thing of the past i would expect.

Price wise I have seen the NEC42XR3 going for $5800 inc stand where the RRP is $6999 this is a bloody good price for something of this caliber. Not to mention it just took out hte Best plasma over $3k at Cedia

The we have the Panasonic have the Viera range but no bloody DVI input man what waste of time brining it out as it is a re-hashed 6 series with a prettier face.

Fujitsu are releasing another model in Jan that will be more expensive that the current model i have been told. This makes no sence at all everyone else is droping prices.

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I'm looking seriously at the 32PD5000TA which is a smaller version of the 42PD5000TA (the bigger display won't fit with existing furniture in the room). The Hitachi has the advantage of detachable speakers meaning I can get a bigger screen into the 87.5 cm of available horizontal space. All the CRT displays were ruled out by my 53cm depth limit.

I have a price of $4999 (Digital City in George Street) but I'm sure I can do better. Are there any other displays I should be considering (bearing in mind I want VGA, DVI and at least one VCR/DVD input plus front connectors) around that price, and are there any retailers in Sydney that people can recommend?

Thanks

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I'm looking seriously at the 32PD5000TA which is a smaller version of the 42PD5000TA (the bigger display won't fit with existing furniture in the room).  The Hitachi has the advantage of detachable speakers meaning I can get a bigger screen into the 87.5 cm of available horizontal space.  All the CRT displays were ruled out by my 53cm depth limit.

I have a price of $4999 (Digital City in George Street) but I'm sure I can do better.  Are there any other displays I should be considering (bearing in mind I want VGA, DVI and at least one VCR/DVD input plus front connectors) around that price, and are there any retailers in Sydney that people can recommend?

Thanks

If plasma is what you are after, I don't think there is a competitor to Hitachi 32''. Regarding the price, I'd have thought you should be able to do close to $4k.

cheers,

Ritesh

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I am also a Hitachi owner and agree in general - there are better sets out now for very little more money.

Also I would think the new Hitachi's with better grey levels will be here before Christmas if you really like the ALIS panel.

I had a look at the 42" Panasonic Viera on Saturday and was impressed but as usual it was running the ch9 HD loop and most sets look good with that so I couldn't really judge solarisation etc...

Also the new NEC sounds like it's definately worth a look

If you are tied in with the current deal then no sweat I am sure that in general you will be happy with your choice, (as I am 95% of the time) - give it a few weeks for you and the set to settle in, don't judge it on what you see out of the box.

BTW as far as TX buzzing - there are a lot of reports from overseas about this but mine (37") is totally silent, as is my mates 42"

After sending the Marnatz back and looking at every HD plasma on the market i can tell you the NEC is the best there is at the moment.

Looking at the upcoming Pioneer 435 series it will only have 2040 shades of grey and 6.1 billion colours then there is the Panasonic series 7 (If it comes to Oz) that will have the same specs.

Where the NEC is 4096 shades of grey and 68.1 billion colours with these spec solarisation is a thing of the past i would expect.

Price wise I have seen the NEC42XR3 going for $5800 inc stand where the RRP is $6999 this is a bloody good price for something of this caliber. Not to mention it just took out hte Best plasma over $3k at Cedia

The we have the Panasonic have the Viera range but no bloody DVI input man what waste of time brining it out as it is a re-hashed 6 series with a prettier face.

Fujitsu are releasing another model in Jan that will be more expensive that the current model i have been told. This makes no sence at all everyone else is droping prices.

Not sure about "bigger the number, the better it is", with this logic, the next display with over 100 billion colours would beat the hell out of everything....

And in a few years we will also be laughing at displays with less than 100 trillion colours :blink:

On the basis of number alone, Hitachi has a resolution of 1 million pixels and nothing comes even close (in 42'' size)... but as you know from first hand experience, it's not everything....

Don't get me wrong, NEC might be a very good thing, but I think there is more to it than mere numbers.....

Personally, I think in a given price range, any of the top manufacturers, Pioneer, Panasonic, NEC, Hitachi, etc. will have very little between them.

AND further every new model will be an improvement in features and PQ, until the war moves from features and PQ to price-cutting and then the manufacturing will move elsewhere, reliability will go down etc. etc.

Thus I think based on just price, probably now (and coming year) would be the best time; as I don't have much hope when prices go down further the following year....

Thus in summary, if you are comparing the new models from any vendor, I'd wait for ALL the major manufacturers to release their new models so that thorough comparisons can be done.... since new models usually are released in a few months of each other, it is a good idea to wait....(If you can...)

cheers,

Ritesh

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I'm looking seriously at the 32PD5000TA which is a smaller version of the 42PD5000TA (the bigger display won't fit with existing furniture in the room).  The Hitachi has the advantage of detachable speakers meaning I can get a bigger screen into the 87.5 cm of available horizontal space.  All the CRT displays were ruled out by my 53cm depth limit.

I have a price of $4999 (Digital City in George Street) but I'm sure I can do better.  Are there any other displays I should be considering (bearing in mind I want VGA, DVI and at least one VCR/DVD input plus front connectors) around that price, and are there any retailers in Sydney that people can recommend?

Thanks

If plasma is what you are after, I don't think there is a competitor to Hitachi 32''. Regarding the price, I'd have thought you should be able to do close to $4k.

cheers,

Ritesh

I have had one the 32" Hitachi plasmas for a couple of months now. Im using it with the LG HD Set Top box (LST-4100P) connected via DVI. I am really pleased with both products. Have had no problems at all and the picture quality looks stunning. I think the 32" has the same vertical resolution as the 42" so gives you a really sharp picture. And if your room isnt that big a 32 may make more sense.

Have seen the Hitachi advertised for $4500, so $4000 for it seems easily possible.

At some stage you have to take the jump and actually buy something, if you keep waiting for the next best thing all the time you probably wont ever buy anything.

Ed

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As far as numbers of colours go...

The source material (DVD and DTV) is effectively equivalent to 8 bit RGB. Thus it only has a max of 17 million colors. So, at first glance, you would think that extra colors wouldn't make a difference.

As was discussed in a quite learned thread a couple of weeks ago, the advantage of greater color depth comes in with the mathematical transformations that take place after the original is decoded. Applying brightness, contrast etc performs mathematical calculations. With 8-bit colors, the end result must be mapped into one of the 256 colors available in each of Red, Green and Blue. With more colors available, a more exact match can be made.

This is where 10-bit or 12-bit colors will be useful. 10-bit gives 1024 x 1024 x 1024 = 1 billion colors. 12-bit gives 4096 x 4096 x 4096 = 64 billion colors.

I really doubt that the human eye could pick the differences in 12 bit.The most obvious way to see the differences is to have an area of a single primary color that changes slightly in color from one side to the other. With 8-bit color depth, you can see the edges (or setps) where one shade of the color changes to the next color up (i.e. next shade in one of 256 shades). This is called "solarisation". With 10 bit color, there are 4 shades of the same color for every one shade in 8 bit. So you will see 4 edges in the distance where you previously saw one. With 12-bit there would 16 times the number of edges.

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As far as numbers of colours go...

The source material (DVD and DTV) is effectively equivalent to 8 bit RGB. Thus it only has a max of 17 million colors. So, at first glance, you would think that extra colors wouldn't make a difference.

As was discussed in a quite learned thread a couple of weeks ago, the advantage of greater color depth comes in with the mathematical transformations that take place after the original is decoded. Applying brightness, contrast etc performs mathematical calculations. With 8-bit colors, the end result must be mapped into one of the 256 colors available in each of Red, Green and Blue. With more colors available, a more exact match can be made.

<snipped>

I guess there are two parts here, setting up the system, and then the real-time decoding of the data.

Regarding the first point, i.e. setting up the system, using DVE to calibrate the various settings for my display (i.e. brightness, contrast, colours, tint, etc.), I found the 256 "steps" of colour and brightness are quite enough.

Regarding the second point, i.e. real-time decoding of data, if the original data on the DVD is in 8-bits, why would you need more than 8-bits to make a "more exact match"?

Lastly, whilst I agree that brightness and colours are related (both would be 8-bits); I think contrast and other settings are not.

regards,

Ritesh

PS: I know some comments were made about this in another thread recently, but am still not too convinced about the theory....

PPS: "Solarisation" being reported might be due to some other reason, I am interested to hear your and others opinion now that you are using the DVI connections; it might possibly be due to the way Component and RGB signals are handled.... I have a feeling Hitachi handles the RGB signal in a much better way... just a theory though....

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Let's assume that decoding resulted in a pixel having a color (10,123,76).

If after applying all the "settings" on your set, the mathematical result is (12.82, 104.56, 83.72).

If your set could just display 8-bit color, then this would be rounded to (13,105,84).

However, it it had 10-bit color, then it would be rounded to (12.75,104.50,83.75) i.e. a more exact match to the required color.

Everything that happens with the picture - brightness, contrast etc all result in an 8-bit pixel color.

Solarisation is simply seeing the steps when going from one of 256 shades to the next. There are techniques to reduce the "steps" by using dithering so that the edge becomes blurred.

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Guys with anything technology related, there will always be something better just around the corner. As someone said here there does come a time you just have to go out and buy it rather than waiting for that "better" product to come around.

Anyway just because its "better" technically does always translate to it being better in reality and in use. Lot of it comes down to implementation of technology.

I can remember in early days with CD players coming out with multi bit DA convertors 16bit wit 8x & 16x oversampling - and the player with the highest bit convertor and highest oversampling was supposedly the best. However people started to notice they had a bit of a hard sound to them. Low and be hold out came marantz with its single bit - bitstream players with massive oversampling (256x)- which had a very smooth sound to them - but possibly a bit too smooth. And then out came the cd players with delta sigma DA convertors which were a hybrid, multi bit and single bit (and good mix of sound, not too soft not too hard). And in all this amazingly Naim had a cracker of a 16bit CD player that would trounce any single bit, multi bit or delta sigma dac player. And ofcourse now we the upsampling DACs - upsampling to try and derive that last bit out of CDs. Interestingly now days the actual DA conversion hardly gets a mention these days. If comparing CD players now I think I'd just be comparing their sound and not worrying about the technology inside.

I think the same needs to be done here - sure theres going to be new developments these days but really isn't the PQ and the implementation thats going to be the decider rather than what mumbo jumbo technology is being used inside?

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Wow guys, thanks for all the info.

I am kinda locked in to the Hitachi deal: I believe I'm getting a pretty good unit at a reasonable price. I have alot of respect for the Hitachi brand as I have used some of their industrial products before (not related to plasma) and found the build quality / performance was superb.

I agree with the concept that you could wait forever for new versions / competing brands: how long do you wait before taking the plunge. I have made the decision to buy based on what's in the market at the moment. If I wait 3 months...I'll be in the same position...and so on and so on...

Once again, thanks for the info. I'll let you know how I get on...

Rgds

gaf

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Let's assume that decoding resulted in a pixel having a color (10,123,76).

If after applying all the "settings" on your set, the mathematical result is (12.82, 104.56, 83.72).

If your set could just display 8-bit color, then this would be rounded to (13,105,84).

However, it it had 10-bit color, then it would be rounded to (12.75,104.50,83.75) i.e. a more exact match to the required color.

Everything that happens with the picture - brightness, contrast etc all result in an 8-bit pixel color.

Solarisation is simply seeing the steps when going from one of 256 shades to the next. There are techniques to reduce the "steps" by using dithering so that the edge becomes blurred.

Well, I am not sure if this is how it works.....

Let's assume that decoding resulted in a pixel having a color (10,123,76).

If after applying all the "settings" on your set, the mathematical result is (12.82, 104.56, 83.72).

If connecting via Analog Video Inputs (Composite, S-Video, etc.) this may be the case; not sure how there will be any discrepency when using the Digital Video Inputs (DVI or HDMI).

All digital data on the, say the DVD, will be transferred as it is; mapping the settings involves no processing at all; it is merely a very simple procedure.

Thus this business about so many bits for color etc. makes no sense for digital inputs.

It's like a particular DVD player having 10-bit 54Mhz Video DAC; and another one having 14-bit 256Mhz Video DAC; talking about them is all fine IF Analog Video connections are used. For digital video outs; these values are meaningless !

With Hitachi having a DVI input, there shouldn't be any discrepency like you have suggested; AND even if the display device does have some discrepency, it can be overcome via a much more advanced input device (e.g. doing corrections in the DVD player etc.)

Since no processing is involved for Digital Video Inputs, (10,123,76) should not mysteriously become (12.82, 104.56, 83.72).

DVD works in YUV or RGB color space, HDMI and DVI works in that, and Plasmas natively work in that; the same color space should be maintained all the way in the chain; I'd have thought....

The only processing done by a digital display is to "scale" the video to its native resolution; and that shouldn't result in a modified color-space....

Ritesh

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Hi,

I am just back from Tokyo and the very latest LCD panels there are still a long way off the plasma's quality - including the Hitachi which has not been updated in the 42" from our model here.

Since we are often 1 year behind the release of new models in Akihabara/Tokyo which can be Japan only models or trial/test release models I wouldnt be holding my breath for a decent LCD in the near future.

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I am also a Hitachi owner and agree in general - there are better sets out now for very little more money.

Also I would think the new Hitachi's with better grey levels will be here before Christmas if you really like the ALIS panel.

I had a look at the 42" Panasonic Viera on Saturday and was impressed but as usual it was running the ch9 HD loop and most sets look good with that so I couldn't really judge solarisation etc...

Also the new NEC sounds like it's definately worth a look

If you are tied in with the current deal then no sweat I am sure that in general you will be happy with your choice, (as I am 95% of the time) - give it a few weeks for you and the set to settle in, don't judge it on what you see out of the box.

BTW as far as TX buzzing - there are a lot of reports from overseas about this but mine (37") is totally silent, as is my mates 42"

After sending the Marnatz back and looking at every HD plasma on the market i can tell you the NEC is the best there is at the moment.

Looking at the upcoming Pioneer 435 series it will only have 2040 shades of grey and 6.1 billion colours then there is the Panasonic series 7 (If it comes to Oz) that will have the same specs.

Where the NEC is 4096 shades of grey and 68.1 billion colours with these spec solarisation is a thing of the past i would expect.

Price wise I have seen the NEC42XR3 going for $5800 inc stand where the RRP is $6999 this is a bloody good price for something of this caliber. Not to mention it just took out hte Best plasma over $3k at Cedia

The we have the Panasonic have the Viera range but no bloody DVI input man what waste of time brining it out as it is a re-hashed 6 series with a prettier face.

Fujitsu are releasing another model in Jan that will be more expensive that the current model i have been told. This makes no sence at all everyone else is droping prices.

Not sure about "bigger the number, the better it is", with this logic, the next display with over 100 billion colours would beat the hell out of everything....

And in a few years we will also be laughing at displays with less than 100 trillion colours :blink:

On the basis of number alone, Hitachi has a resolution of 1 million pixels and nothing comes even close (in 42'' size)... but as you know from first hand experience, it's not everything....

Don't get me wrong, NEC might be a very good thing, but I think there is more to it than mere numbers.....

Personally, I think in a given price range, any of the top manufacturers, Pioneer, Panasonic, NEC, Hitachi, etc. will have very little between them.

AND further every new model will be an improvement in features and PQ, until the war moves from features and PQ to price-cutting and then the manufacturing will move elsewhere, reliability will go down etc. etc.

Thus I think based on just price, probably now (and coming year) would be the best time; as I don't have much hope when prices go down further the following year....

Thus in summary, if you are comparing the new models from any vendor, I'd wait for ALL the major manufacturers to release their new models so that thorough comparisons can be done.... since new models usually are released in a few months of each other, it is a good idea to wait....(If you can...)

cheers,

Ritesh

My main concern was solarisation with Plasma's and this is where the NEC should have gotten rid of this pain in the arse situation have the higher steps and 12 bit processing

And after seeing what else is on offer the NEC fits the bill to a T i had a look at the 50" Viera tonight and must say it did nothing for me at all and did show solarisation not the same degree as the Marantz but was there

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Hi,

I am just back from Tokyo and the very latest LCD panels there are still a long way off the plasma's quality - including the Hitachi which has not been updated in the 42" from our model here.

Since we are often 1 year behind the release of new models in Akihabara/Tokyo which can be Japan only models or trial/test release models I wouldnt be holding my breath for a decent LCD in the near future.

Yep sounds about right, all the research that I did at the start and middle of this year, indicated that LCD is at least 2-3 years behind....The current plasma models from Hitachi, NEC, Panasonic, etc. is 5th or 6th generation.... it would take around the same for the LCD to come close to being acceptable quality with decent contrast, viewing angle, and response times...I am afraid they still have a few generations of models to go... so 2-3 may be 4 years sounds about right....

Ritesh

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