nzlowie Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 I've always been sceptical about power cords and filters but lately I've been thinking I might need to investigate this further.... On not sure if it's my ears, my mood or the house power but sometimes my system sounds absolutely beautiful and other times I think it's too harsh and bright. I have a Weston Topaz driving my horn's. My thinking has always been that as tube amps have massive power supplies that a filter wouldn't make a lot of difference. Do I need to rethink this??? Thanks Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk 1
Bunno77 Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 Try borrowing some or loaning them from a store Sent from my JAZZ using Tapatalk
Steven Hinchliffe Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 My SS amp has a massive power supply and plenty of filter caps, but a good (Holton) DC blocker made a huge difference to the sound; might be well worth a look, and not a huge investment if you're running quality gear... :-)
rockeater Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Well, if your power is dirty, then the filter might help. If it is clean, then it will not. And if it does, then one if fooling oneself. Other than a whiskey suggestion above (which I would change to lesser amount but of cognac), make a diary and see when the system sounds harsh. During business hours? If you are close to industrial/commercial area it would make sense. Maybe on weekend when a neighbor is using his semi-pro wood cutting drop saw? But if you are in a residential area and it sounds harsh at 2am on a Tuesday, then you do need some of that cognac. I am looking out of the window on Joondalup Lake and after midnight sound just comes out of silence.
Vinoholic Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 My relatively limited experience has yielded mixed results. In Australia (Canberra area) I purchased the Isotek Gii Sigmas and it did improve my (then) system by reducing the noise floor and delivering a cleaner, more musical sound. I was very happy with the purchase. About 12 months later I moved to Singapore and took my audio equipment with me. After a few weeks I bought Avantegarde horns to replace my Paradigm Tribute floor standers. When the horns were delivered and set-up, the audio dealer was unhappy with their sound (albeit a big improvement on the Paradigm's). Eventually, he by-passed the Isotek power conditioner and voila - it was like a veil being removed. The lower frequencies became more assertive and tighter, and the mids produced more bloom. The improvement was quite profound, and the Isotek power conditioner is now surplus to requirements. No doubt lots of variables at play here, so draw your own conclusions. 1
GregWormald Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 As far as I can remember there is a trial/loaner available for some of the IsoTek equipment. I suggest you try it for yourself. My trial IsoTek never went back. Greg
Guest Sime Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Pity you aren't in Canberra, I'd bring my 3 units over.
nzlowie Posted June 27, 2017 Author Posted June 27, 2017 Thanks guys appreciate your thoughts. I'll see if I can get one try.Have no idea if my power is clean or not so a trial might be the way to go. Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Guest Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, nzlowie said: Thanks guys appreciate your thoughts. I'll see if I can get one try. Have no idea if my power is clean or not so a trial might be the way to go. Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk Might be worth jabbing the old multimeter into the power point across active and neutral, but with the meter switched to DC instead of AC. You may measure the resultant DC on the mains EDIT, AND LEAVE IT THERE ON PEAK LOGGING ALL DAY Edited June 27, 2017 by Guest
VanArn Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, 125dBmonster said: Might be worth jabbing the old multimeter into the power point across active and neutral, but with the meter switched to DC instead of AC. You may measure the resultant DC on the mains It would be wise to consult the user instructions for your meter, otherwise a defunct meter could be the result. DC on the mains is fortunately not a common occurrence and the situations that might cause it tend to be of a temporary nature. Toroidal transformers are sensitive to higher than normal mains voltages which leads to saturation of the laminated core and the buzzing problem. The selection of a power transformer is a design exercise that should cover many factors. One common application error is the use of higher than necessary values of filter capacitors which will cause very spikey peak currents to be drawn through the transformer. Edited June 27, 2017 by VanArn
Guest Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 28 minutes ago, VanArn said: It would be wise to consult the user instructions for your meter, otherwise a defunct meter could be the result. DC on the mains is fortunately not a common occurrence and the situations that might cause it tend to be of a temporary nature. Toroidal transformers are sensitive to higher than normal mains voltages which leads to saturation of the laminated core and the buzzing problem. The selection of a power transformer is a design exercise that should cover many factors. One common application error is the use of higher than necessary values of filter capacitors which will cause very spikey peak currents to be drawn through the transformer. Absolutely agree with the transient nature of DC on the Mains and higher than nominal volts on the toroid. If a meter can't be put across the mains on DC it doesn't belong in a Trades Tool box, it goes in the bin
andyr Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Happy said: i thought DC thing does not affect tube amps You Syderney guys never cease to amaze me, H! As a tube amp has a power transformer - juzz like an ss amp does - then 'stuff' on the mains: high voltage noise, and DC offset ... will affect a tube amp just as much as an ss amp. Andy
Happy Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 You Syderney guys never cease to amaze me, H! [emoji14] As a tube amp has a power transformer - juzz like an ss amp does - then 'stuff' on the mains: high voltage noise, and DC offset ... will affect a tube amp just as much as an ss amp. Andy Hey I once made some enquiries with those who actually make tube amps and the DC blockers. And that's what I was told. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Guest Sime Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 @Happy I was told once I'd go blind, still working on it.
andyr Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Happy said: Hey I once made some enquiries with those who actually make tube amps and the DC blockers. And that's what I was told. People who make tube amps like to tell us they are perfect! (And so don't need any help!) 9 minutes ago, Sime said: @Happy I was told once I'd go blind, still working on it. Mmmm, not sure whether I shouldn't report this post. If you went to a Catholic school, you would've been told about a certain practice which - if you persisted in doing it - would send you blind. The fact that: a. you are not blind, and b. you are still "working on it" ... is wonderful news to those poor (guilty) students! Andy
Happy Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Andy that wasn't their intention at all. You're a little too harsh on those who specialise in stuff you don't really care for. I'm assuming you weren't joking since er you told me you don't joke on SNA The truth was that I was having noise/hum issues and their advice was that eliminating DC wouldn't help reducing it when tubes are involved. Far different from what you were suggesting.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Wimbo Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 10 hours ago, nzlowie said: I've always been sceptical about power cords and filters but lately I've been thinking I might need to investigate this further.... On not sure if it's my ears, my mood or the house power but sometimes my system sounds absolutely beautiful and other times I think it's too harsh and bright. I have a Weston Topaz driving my horn's. My thinking has always been that as tube amps have massive power supplies that a filter wouldn't make a lot of difference. Do I need to rethink this??? Thanks Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk Might be environmental mate. More moisture in the air can tend to make the sound better. Static might be causing a problem or dry air. Get a cheap humidifier. That could help.
Wimbo Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, andyr said: People who make tube amps like to tell us they are perfect! (And so don't need any help!) Mmmm, not sure whether I shouldn't report this post. If you went to a Catholic school, you would've been told about a certain practice which - if you persisted in doing it - would send you blind. The fact that: a. you are not blind, and b. you are still "working on it" ... is wonderful news to those poor (guilty) students! Andy So, Catholic schools only said that. And why were the students guilty?
andyr Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Happy said: their advice was that eliminating DC wouldn't help reducing it when tubes are involved. Far different from what you were suggesting. As you can see from the post that I made ... indeed, very different. 2 hours ago, andyr said: People who make tube amps like to tell us they are perfect! (And so don't need any help!) Andy Any component that has a power transformer (ie. any piece of electronic audio equipment except those that are battery powered) will benefit from a device which blocks DC - ie. an isolating transformer or a cap/diode DC blocker - if you have DC on your mains. Which you can get from several sources: your own - or even your friendly neighbour's - solar inverter or the SMPSes powering your router/computer/etc. Andy
Guest Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 In all seriousness appropriately measuring waveform distortion and logging/monitoring it over over a week is the only real way of knowing this is fairly easily achieved with a standard Fluke Multi-meter with peak hold function, or get more adventurous and get out the CRO There is little point in guessing, no point in expensive trials, get down to the root of the problem at the source.
TerryO Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) While I have read on here many threads with many different opinions about power filtering, conditioning or regeneration I decided to keep an open mind and finally decided to stick my toe in the water when I saw some decent leads advertised at a fair price. So I purchased two Eichman Exel power leads from a fellow SNAer recently. They arrived yesterday , I replaced the basic original power leads to the PrimaLuna (valve) amp and the Oppo 205 player. To to be frank even though a had shelled out the money I was not expecting much if anything, but decided to see how some thing as basic as leads might work in our situation. I was surprised, the hissing through the speakers that I have always easily heard when the music had stopped and I was changing a CD / Record had reduced by well over 50%, to a point that I could only hear it if I put my ear next to the tweeter. There was also pleasant difference to sq, especially with vocals, at higher volumes where there was a obvious roughness / harshness when the singer was hitting higher octaves there now has been a softening and almost, but not all, removal of that harshness. I listened to this on my own, then later on asked the wife to come and listen to the same reference music we always use and even she observed that it sounded 'much nicer' and she is a sceptic on anything that I spend money on with HiFi. I will say, strange as it is, that some of the base like lower tones, especially in some Leonard Cohan vocals now seam to have been lessened as well. I did play the reference music just before swapping the cables, but will do more back to back tests in coming days to see if this is repeatable or imaginary. Worst case scenario I now have two very heavy leads with decent football shaped weights on them that could double as weapons if need be. Am I glad I purchased these leads? So far the answer is yes. cheers Terry Edited June 28, 2017 by TerryO 2
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