ex brickie Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I'm intrigued as to why any subwoofer would only be good for movies rather than music - as a dealer has indicated to me. why would this be the case - and if it is true, what subs do music well for $500 or less (secondhand)?
Bunno77 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 That's simply not true. There is a little of an old way of thinking about this still present. There are issues and difficulties to integrating s sub correctly though and some space may be required or bass management via minDSP, and AVR, software or the subs controls. If you can find a Paradigm, SVS, Rel, HSU, Sunfire for 500 and it is relatively of equal quality to the rest of your gear it should be ok This system really opened my eyes. They are $50k speakers and sound incredible on their own. What the subs added in soundstage, tonal balance, extra information was a revelation. It wasn't wall shaking bass. Even with vocals and simple acoustic tracks that don't have much low end information they added a realism that wasn't there when the subs were powered down. 3
nicholas9976 Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 13 hours ago, ex brickie said: I'm intrigued as to why any subwoofer would only be good for movies rather than music - as a dealer has indicated to me. why would this be the case - and if it is true, what subs do music well for $500 or less (secondhand)? For music a bass drum has a definite tonal sound that requires accuracy to reproduce realistically. Otherwise you just get a general "doof" sound, which sounds wrong to our ears/brains. For movies the low-frequency sounds are made artificially by SFX people and modified heavily. Our ears/brains don't really know what those noises should be sounding like, so accuracy and speed is not as critical. So you can get away with a lesser quality sub for movies in many cases without it affecting your enjoyment much. For $500 it will be a bit of a struggle to get a great one. My Whatmough sub would go for that secondhand and was OK for music, but if you look around you should find some better options that are a bit older. Also consider that the low frequency sound will almost certainly activate room modes (especially in small to medium enclosed rooms), so on certain tracks with bass beats at certain frequencies the beats may sound unpleasantly long and loud and inaccurate. These issues can sometimes be addressed to some extent through moving listener position, and/or room treatment (bass traps etc), and/or EQ / DRC. 2
rocky500 Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I find the cheaper subs could be like this a bit. They may make a great rumble which is what is awesome in the movie experience. As I have bought more higher up subs (sealed mainly) they have been better for music but may not be as good as a big rumbly sub for movies. Except the Seaton Submersive I had for a time, that was sealed and was amazing for movies except my old room could not handle it and everything rattled. Edited June 7, 2017 by rocky500 1
bvuka2013 Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 17 hours ago, ex brickie said: I'm intrigued as to why any subwoofer would only be good for movies rather than music - as a dealer has indicated to me. why would this be the case - and if it is true, what subs do music well for $500 or less (secondhand)? How about Wharfedale SW100 or SW150 You can find these cheap on Ebay or Gumtree
ex brickie Posted June 7, 2017 Author Posted June 7, 2017 I think I understand the differences now - but how would anyone know which are better designed for movies and which for music?
nicholas9976 Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 I think I understand the differences now - but how would anyone know which are better designed for movies and which for music? Listening to them play bass drum tracks. REL subwoofers recommend tuning the very subtle background bass drum in this track to match the sub with your speakers: For evaluating subs I would recommend this awesome track: Should sound like real drums, not bass rumble or "doof" sound. Also read reviews of subs in audio (not home theatre) websites and publications. Many of the best music subs will be more expensive, so you may get better sound within budget by buying an older used one, just check it out carefully before buying. 2
nicholas9976 Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 The first track above is: Cosmo, Old Friend, from the Sneakers movie soundtrack. The second track above is: hok man-yim, poem of chinese drums. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
ex brickie Posted June 7, 2017 Author Posted June 7, 2017 Thanks Nick. Recommendations are useful for me to narrow down the reviews. I would definitely buy secondhand. So any tips are welcome.... even at a higher price point as I'm in no rush .....
Happy Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 Thanks Nick. Recommendations are useful for me to narrow down the reviews. I would definitely buy secondhand. So any tips are welcome.... even at a higher price point as I'm in no rush ..... Aim at some not so old REL sub with a 10+" driver. If you're vigilant can be had for about 5 centuries.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
nicholas9976 Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, ex brickie said: Thanks Nick. Recommendations are useful for me to narrow down the reviews. I would definitely buy secondhand. So any tips are welcome.... even at a higher price point as I'm in no rush ..... I have heard good things about the REL subwoofers for music. Some people like the JL Audio subs and the Paradigm subs. Sunfire are well regarded but expensive. The Aussie speaker manufacturers such as Krix and Whatmough and VAF etc may or may not be quite as good but will probably represent the best value and more likely to meet your budget. You can also check past versions of the "Recommended Components" list from Stereophile and Absolute Sound magazines that you will find on the web, under the subwoofer category. They may tend to favour their advertisers so take these lists with a grain of salt, but you probably won't find bad products on these lists.
Happy Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 JL Audio at 5c. Please buzz me when you find one Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Al.M Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) If you want a very cost effective 2nd hand, compact and reliable HT sub for as low as $60 the Sony SAW40 12 inch woofer ported works very well and not too bad for music http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/subwoofers/sony/sa-wm40/prd_124407_2741crx.aspx I've tried a lot of cheaper 2nd hand generic subs and many of them can have plate amp maintenance issues like buzzing, humming etc due to age. The other alternative is to DIY your own sub by getting a higher quality woofer than you get in a commercial design either a dedicated audiophile grade subwoofer driver or a three way speaker high quality woofer like 10-12 inch Focals, Eton, Scanspeak or similar high end units, match them to a correct volume ported or sealed design box with a plate amp unit and you can get a very high quality detailed and bass textured result for music reproduction. Look for such woofers second hand for around $100-300, DIY and chipboard box $60 and add $150plate amp and the result can be excellent although not so pretty cabinet. Go further and make a transmission line box subwoofer and you will be even more surprised how good. I've built several such DIY subs and they have been way better than $500 2nd hand REL and Velodyne subs that were up to $3000 rrp in their days. Refer to DIY sub designs in this forum and others online for recommended designs. Edited June 7, 2017 by Al.M 1
Bunno77 Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 Some of the newer videos here explain a little about what a subwoofer actually does when integrated into a stereo system https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8UucutU8eFGBJBYTbFXJw This one has a little Rel sub that isnt too far outside your budget. You can hear even through youtube how well rounded it sounds
Bunno77 Posted June 11, 2017 Posted June 11, 2017 At the other end of the country but these are quite good
Guest Posted June 11, 2017 Posted June 11, 2017 Thanks Nick. Recommendations are useful for me to narrow down the reviews. I would definitely buy secondhand. So any tips are welcome.... even at a higher price point as I'm in no rush ..... Keep an eye out for a M&K V75 or V125. A very clean used one will fit well within the budget and do a great job. I used to use 2 of them.Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
ex brickie Posted June 11, 2017 Author Posted June 11, 2017 M&K have a good reputation. Whether I can get one cheap enough - I'll need to look out....
betty boop Posted June 11, 2017 Posted June 11, 2017 On 06/06/2017 at 9:18 PM, ex brickie said: I'm intrigued as to why any subwoofer would only be good for movies rather than music - as a dealer has indicated to me. why would this be the case - and if it is true, what subs do music well for $500 or less (secondhand)? really depends what chasing. there are some quite basic subs which can add a lot of fun factor for ht. a great example is the richter thor... great output to shake a couch and have things in the house shake. however music wise its really not that well controlled. and will actually take things backwards depending on the quality of speakers mating upto. you want something that will actually take things further rather than backwards and detract. you generally get what you pay for. and if buying subs typically spending up buys subs that go deeper, are cleaner and more controlled. hence why spending a tad more can bring some gains.
robmid Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 I picked up an 8 year old REL Quake cube on Gumtree for $175 that had only been used a couple of times. It is a predecessor to the REL T5 and integrates perfectly with my VAF LS50's at speaker level. Amp is 100watts D coupled Mosfet not digital. In room response is rated at 23hZ according to the manual. 1
Guest Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 On 2017-6-11 at 7:26 PM, ex brickie said: M&K have a good reputation. Whether I can get one cheap enough - I'll need to look out.... There's a M&K V75 on ebay right now in QLD....
Texas_Legit Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 A REL T5 would be a great option if you can find one secondhand. They are great for music, very responsive as in the driver returns to rest quicker than a cheaper sub with a bigger driver. This will be easily missed with movie effects, but easily heard with good music recordings. WIll still give great performance for LFE as well.
Texas_Legit Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 A REL T5 would be a great option if you can find one secondhand. They are great for music, very responsive as in the driver returns to rest quicker than a cheaper sub with a bigger driver. This will be easily missed with movie effects, but easily heard with good music recordings. WIll still give great performance for LFE as well.
ex brickie Posted June 20, 2017 Author Posted June 20, 2017 Thanks guys - I'm keeping an eye out for your recommendations
betty boop Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 2 hours ago, ex brickie said: Thanks guys - I'm keeping an eye out for your recommendations look out for a little velodyne DD10 servo controlled sub at the minimum. will be around $1k I would suspect second hand and that would be about as the cheapest sub for music i can think off. that brings some clean controlled sub bass to the proceedings....
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