drdarkfish Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) Hi All, Contemplating the move to a new turntable. Would love some opinions on the following TTs: Dr. Feickert Blackbird 2 SME 20/3 Kuzma Stabi Ref 2 I'm not necessarily interested in a comparison between the three (although that would be more than welcome), any experience or feedback would be appreciated. Reluctant to give any further parameters (re: tonearm etc.) as I want some pure opinions on the turntables themselves. Cheers, Fish Edited May 24, 2017 by drdarkfish
eltech Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 What information / opinions are you looking for? They are all good turntables. All are reputable.
Guest Hensa Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 @Hergest should be able to help with comment on the SME. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CraigC Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 I have a stabi ref 2 with the 4 point arm and love it 2
drdarkfish Posted May 24, 2017 Author Posted May 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, CraigC said: I have a stabi ref 2 with the 4 point arm and love it What do you like about it Craig? As in which performance aspects make it appealing? Low rumble, accurate speed? Cheers Fish
Hergest Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Hensa said: @Hergest should be able to help with comment on the SME. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I have a 20/2 but I don't know if my opinion means a great deal as all I can really say is that I love it which is what Craig says of his Kuzma... Seriously though, I can't fault it. Build quality, sonics, ease of use, the best after sales service from SME I've come across in the industry. I would reckon the 20/3 would sonically be even better as it's moved a bit closer to the 30 than my 20/2. The 20/2 will do me until the end of my days. Puremusic carry the SME line but I have no idea what they have for audition. Warwick is a sponsor so maybe shoot him a PM and see if anything can be worked out to at least give one a try. 1
drdarkfish Posted May 24, 2017 Author Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, eltech said: What information / opinions are you looking for? They are all good turntables. All are reputable. Anything really Eltech. Personal experience, things to be weary of, particular strengths, weaknesses. I know they are all "good" hence this will be a big upgrade for me.
drdarkfish Posted May 24, 2017 Author Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hergest said: I have a 20/2 but I don't know if my opinion means a great deal as all I can really say is that I love it which is what Craig says of his Kuzma... Seriously though, I can't fault it. Build quality, sonics, ease of use, the best after sales service from SME I've come across in the industry. I would reckon the 20/3 would sonically be even better as it's moved a bit closer to the 30 than my 20/2. The 20/2 will do me until the end of my days. Puremusic carry the SME line but I have no idea what they have for audition. Warwick is a sponsor so maybe shoot him a PM and see if anything can be worked out to at least give one a try. Thanks Herg, Seems to be a common theme with SME owners- they seem to keep them forever. Im pretty impressed with the build quality, second to none. Been speaking to Warwick already, very helpful. Just thought Id throw the line out to the SNA'ers to see consumer opinion. Any particular reason you dont 'love it' or is it more of a case that it just does things right? CHeers Edited May 24, 2017 by drdarkfish
Hergest Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 25 minutes ago, drdarkfish said: Thanks Herg, Seems to be a common theme with SME owners- they seem to keep them forever. Im pretty impressed with the build quality, second to none. Been speaking to Warwick already, very helpful. Just thought Id throw the line out to the SNA'ers to see consumer opinion. Any particular reason you dont 'love it' or is it more of a case that it just does things right? CHeers Oh, I do love it, well, as much as you can love a bit of hifi gear. One thing worth mentioning, I used an SME IV arm on it from new which I'd used on my Model 10 for the 14 years previously. I always thought it was maybe 90% of the V arm but when I finally got around to buying a V arm last Christmas and put that on the Model 20 the difference wasn't subtle and I wished I'd saved up for a V years before. Far deeper and wider soundstage, wonderfully clean tracking bringing out more detail and another apparent drop in the noise floor. More expense alas but if you do go down the SME route it's something worthy of consideration as the quality of the turntable deserves the best arm you can plump for. 1
CraigC Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) What do I like about the Kuzma? The arm is no fuss and works well, I use it undampened The head shell is removable and you get two with the arm. I like the stability and isolation of the dual plinth arrangement. The speed control works well and is outboard. I think it looks bad ass The record clamp is very effective as is the built in mat. The combination works well and produces great music . If you enjoy a tweak, probably not for you, its set and forget The SME was also on my radar, originally that was my destination of choice. I felt the arm had an edge on the SMEV while the decks are close. I did see a Fieckert and at the time remember it was a solid performer, but preferred the Kuzma. As mentioned previously Warwick has experience with all those brands. I found him to be very helpful. https://www.stereophile.com/content/kuzma-4point-tonearm Edited May 26, 2017 by LockedoutofCraigC 1
drdarkfish Posted May 28, 2017 Author Posted May 28, 2017 On 26/05/2017 at 8:59 PM, CraigC said: What do I like about the Kuzma? The arm is no fuss and works well, I use it undampened The head shell is removable and you get two with the arm. I like the stability and isolation of the dual plinth arrangement. The speed control works well and is outboard. I think it looks bad ass The record clamp is very effective as is the built in mat. The combination works well and produces great music . If you enjoy a tweak, probably not for you, its set and forget The SME was also on my radar, originally that was my destination of choice. I felt the arm had an edge on the SMEV while the decks are close. I did see a Fieckert and at the time remember it was a solid performer, but preferred the Kuzma. As mentioned previously Warwick has experience with all those brands. I found him to be very helpful. https://www.stereophile.com/content/kuzma-4point-tonearm Thanks Craig. Few follow up questions/comments: Regarding the dampening, how do you feel the the separate horizontal and vertical dampening has an effect on the sound? I would have thought some dampening in both planes would be beneficial. What cartridge do you use with the 4Point? I agree on the badass look - very Bond villain. How do you find the rumble performance of the deck? I am sensitive to motor/bearing noise. Do you think their is any noticeable rumble? It's funny you should say that if you like tweaking, it might not be for me, because I am leaning to the 4Point (over the SME combo) for specifically that reason. It appears that everything can be adjusted on the 4Point (and with ease and accuracy). Whereas a SME V is far less adjustable. Did you get the opportunity to A/B the Kuzma against the SME or Feickert?
drdarkfish Posted May 28, 2017 Author Posted May 28, 2017 On 24/05/2017 at 8:57 PM, Hergest said: Oh, I do love it, well, as much as you can love a bit of hifi gear. One thing worth mentioning, I used an SME IV arm on it from new which I'd used on my Model 10 for the 14 years previously. I always thought it was maybe 90% of the V arm but when I finally got around to buying a V arm last Christmas and put that on the Model 20 the difference wasn't subtle and I wished I'd saved up for a V years before. Far deeper and wider soundstage, wonderfully clean tracking bringing out more detail and another apparent drop in the noise floor. More expense alas but if you do go down the SME route it's something worthy of consideration as the quality of the turntable deserves the best arm you can plump for. Thanks Hergest. If I were to go for the SME 20/3, I would probably go for the V over the IV. How do you find the rumble performance of the SME? As I said to Craig, I'm fairly sensitive to bearing and motor noise.. Cheers.
metal beat Posted May 28, 2017 Posted May 28, 2017 You will not find any noise with a SME table - any model, nor would I expect any Kuzma model If it were my $$, I would try and listen to the SME 20 with Thales Simplicity II tonearm. cheers 2
Hergest Posted May 28, 2017 Posted May 28, 2017 As Shane says, there's no discernible noise from the Model 20, the noise floor seems to be well below what can be heard. The motor isn't 100% silent but you have to put your ear up to it with no music playing to hear it. Away from the turntable and with a record playing there is only the music.
CraigC Posted May 28, 2017 Posted May 28, 2017 I haven't used the damping fluid yet as the table hasn't been yet installed in its final location and is currently packed away. It will be interesting to see what sonic changes the damping fluid will impact. I use a Lyra Kleos and also had a Shelter 501. Between the grooves its dead quiet. Any of the turntables you are currently considering will have a very low noise floor. I too like the how adjustable the tone arm is, tweaking to me is changing upgrading components eg tonearm weights , bearings etc. I did hear a Fieckert at PMG, I don't recall which one or what arm and cartridge combo. It was ok, but obviously I liked this more.
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