Burn-in seems to happen even with 2nd hand equipment?

[Guest m_james]

Anyone else experienced this? I've been trying out a new source over the past week and it's cleaned up and taken on body and dimensionality an awful lot from day 1 to now. I mean, way past what I would consider 'subtle'.

 

This seems to go against the idea that burn-in is the physical 'settling' of parts in a newly manufactured parts. I wonder if it's a case (in layman's terms) of the whole of your system getting accustomed to the signal getting through. Either that or my brain doing very weird things.

Edited May 22, 2017 by m_james

[Gruffnutz]

'cause it's bullscheitzen.  Look, physical transducers like loudspeakers will always have a degree of 'break in' and some other devices such as transformers and capacitors 'may' change subtly over time but most of this, particularly with regard to cables, is such utter rubbish as to be laughable.

 

But if it floats your boat; enjoy the delayed psycho-acoustic gratification.

 

It's a journey...

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

It's not impossible for some capacitors to go through changes if the equipment has been powered down for a long time and then powered up again, or so I'm told.

 

Then again, it could actually be your brain doing very normal things. A lot of "burn-in" is the listener adjusting to a slightly different sound.

 

And have you been gradually changing the volume to get it "right"?

[Kaynin]

How much use did the source have before you bought it?

[eltech]

Capacitors in old equipment, which has been unused in storage for many years need to reform when first powered up. Usually this shouldn't take more than 30 minutes, unless they are really old and worn out, in which case it might take a few hours. 

 

The OP didn't say how old or how regularly this equipment was used before purchased. 

 

 

 

[Briz Vegas]

30 minutes. Takes my gear longer than that to warm up properly.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 5/22/2017 at 8:30 PM, m_james said:

Anyone else experienced this? I've been trying out a new source over the past week and it's cleaned up and taken on body and dimensionality an awful lot from day 1 to now. I mean, way past what I would consider 'subtle'.

 

This seems to go against the idea that burn-in is the physical 'settling' of parts in a newly manufactured parts. I wonder if it's a case (in layman's terms) of the whole of your system getting accustomed to the signal getting through. Either that or my brain doing very weird things.

 

There are generally thought to be two things going on, to explain this effect:

 

1) Psycho-acoustics. Your ear/brain system is becoming accustomed to the difference in your system.

2) Capacitors and semiconductors are subject to warm-up periods. This is particularly important to low or zero global NFB products. 

[amdan]

I have had the same experience as the OP but with cables. They seem to need some time to settle in again even if they have been previously been used for years. The length of time varies. Some have done it overnight some take longer. Some don't take anytime at all (Chord Chorus interconnects). My Lenehan ribbon tek speaker cables are taking much longer which is a little annoying.
As for whether this is all in our minds or some objective reality is always going to difficult to establish. Those who argue that these cable changes can't be true and quote physics are simply tiresome, foolish and don't understand science. The fact that something can't be explained by science doesn't mean it isn't true. Apples fell to the ground even before Newton documented the 3 laws of motion.
I am of the view that all of us judge these things by our beliefs. It is the extent which differs.
For those of you who don't hear differences there are 4 explanations that I can think of:
1. You are right - there are no differences
2. Your systems aren't revealing enough for the differences to be heard
3. You lack the skills to hear the differences - hearing, mind and knowledge
4. 2 & 3 above


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Edited May 30, 2017 by amdan

[sir sanders zingmore]

2 minutes ago, amdan said:

Apples fell to the ground even before Newton established the law of physics.

 

Did he?

[amdan]

2 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

Did he?

You beat me by seconds!

[mwhouston]

I think sometimes we burn-in to the sound of the gear other than the gear burns in. Our brains are plastic and will be moulded by the environment around us. 

 

When new gear comes into our environment our brain tries to level or different from the norm. Over time one bleeds into the other and then we feel comfortable with the change.

 

The only time I don't think this happens is when there is something realy wrong with the new gear. Not just a little bit wrong but quite wrong. For example we may get quite noticable distortion at high frequencies. This is wrong and not a little bit wrong, very wrong. No burn-in to be had here, fix it or dump it. Generally over a very extended period we either enjoy are are being annoyed but the statis quo. First listenings generally prove nothing.

Edited May 29, 2017 by mwhouston

[Guest m_james]

3 hours ago, mwhouston said:

I think sometimes we burn-in to the sound of the gear other than the gear burns in. Our brains are plastic and will be moulded by the environment around us. 

 

When new gear comes into our environment our brain tries to level or different from the norm. Over time one bleeds into the other and then we feel comfortable with the change.

 

The only time I don't think this happens is when there is something realy wrong with the new gear. Not just a little bit wrong but quite wrong. For example we may get quite noticable distortion at high frequencies. This is wrong and not a little bit wrong, very wrong. No burn-in to be had here, fix it or dump it. Generally over a very extended period we either enjoy are are being annoyed but the statis quo. First listenings generally prove nothing.

 

That would mean that any gear we hear in the shop would sound bad, wouldn't it? No one would ever buy anything.

[amdan]

This doesn't mean the equipment necessarily sounds bad in the first instance. It just doesn't sound its best.


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[mwhouston]

Usually on a short listen we are impressed. Then we get use to the sound then we start to find the cracks. This process could take many months.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by mwhouston

[DoggieHowser]

Some of my gear is designed to be left on all the time.

I think John Stronczer even said he needed 2 days for his ICE powered amps to sound their best.

Karan amps also had similar recommendations.

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, m_james said:

 

That would mean that any gear we hear in the shop would sound bad, wouldn't it? No one would ever buy anything.

 

It also means that any gear you do buy should just keep in improving. 

No one would ever need to upgrade 

[joz]

Well I've been burning this in for the last 20 years, best it's ever sounded.

So 20 years of my time and electricity will only cost you about 15 x RRP 

[Addicted to music]

On 29/05/2017 at 9:51 AM, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

Did he?

 

Well, when an Apple hit Newton on the head,  he realised that everything that goes up, must come down....  Hence "gravity" and then a whole set of mathematical formulas came to fuitation in his mind....   the only thing that didn't come down like everything else are a certain brand of socks.... 

[AudioGeek]

Human senses and the interaction with the mind are the biggest variable in all this. Some people wont accept this and attribute changes to undiscovered physical science!

Mind over matter as they say...

 

The other attribute is our hearing reception. I measured and plotted mine a while ago and it was not flat - why should I create a flat response from my sound system?

[sir sanders zingmore]

2 hours ago, AudioGeek said:

The other attribute is our hearing reception. I measured and plotted mine a while ago and it was not flat - why should I create a flat response from my sound system?

 

Scratching my head at this one. A live piano does not correct for your hearing. It still sounds real. 

Why would you want the sound of a piano played through your system to sound different from how it sounds live?

[AudioGeek]

Unfortunately my hearing is flawed. I want to hear it as it should sound. I actually listen to a lot of classical music and enjoy live performances. I will be attending the festival of instrumental music next week to hear the kids perform The reality is I rarely get to live performances these days as life gets in the way.

But I do get to listen at home almost every night - and can correct for many things including my own hearing peculiarities.

Nothing beats the overall enjoyment of a live performance, however, your own system can "sound" better.

Most systems are voiced for individual preferences.

 

Anyway, we are getting way off topic - so burn in huh?