Taz85 Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 Hi all, I'm new here and out for my first turntable setup and looking for some advice. I'm looking for a good quality turntable setup in the $500-$600 range (possibly more for the right setup). I don't need an amp or speakers just yet (I'll be using my Paradigm MilleniaOne CT TV setup for now) but will upgrade in the next couple of years. I've done some research, and the Pro-ject Debut Carbon Phono USB or Pro-ject Essential II Digital "look" pretty good to me. My only concern with these is I've read they can be a bit fiddly to setup and change speeds etc. What's the consensus on turntables with built-in phono stage? Am I limiting my future upgrade options by choosing one of these Pro-ject turntables?? Is $600 better spent on a standard turntable and separate phono stage? Please help!
ochremoon Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 If it were me I'd look for a secondhand turntable in your price range (keep an eye on the for sale section here as they come up frequently) with a MM cart and get a cheap vintage integrated (they all had phono stages in them). You will get much better sound taking this path.
eltech Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Taz85 said: My only concern with these is I've read they can be a bit fiddly to setup and change speeds etc. Firstly, unless you have 45RPM singles, changing speed isnt much of an issue. Most LPs are 33.3RPM Once you fit a belt, it shouldnt be too fidly after that. 1 hour ago, Taz85 said: What's the consensus on turntables with built-in phono stage? Am I limiting my future upgrade options by choosing one of these Pro-ject turntables?? Is $600 better spent on a standard turntable and separate phono stage? I agree with @ochremoon above. A 1970's 80's or early 90's integrated amp should have a decent phono stage.A good quality used turntable will generally be better than a new entry level turntable. BUT, there are plenty of people happy with turntables like the AT LP120 which has a built in phono stage. Not everyone is a super golden eared audiophile. Perhaps you just want to play some records, and not have to wory about external preamps and such. Changing speed is really easy with a direct drive turntable and the LP120 is super easy to use.
Taz85 Posted May 19, 2017 Author Posted May 19, 2017 3 hours ago, ochremoon said: If it were me I'd look for a secondhand turntable in your price range (keep an eye on the for sale section here as they come up frequently) with a MM cart and get a cheap vintage integrated (they all had phono stages in them). You will get much better sound taking this path. Maybe later down the track I'll take this path. Once my record collection and budget gets bigger I'll look at going full-audiophile. 1 hour ago, eltech said: BUT, there are plenty of people happy with turntables like the AT LP120 which has a built in phono stage. Not everyone is a super golden eared audiophile. Perhaps you just want to play some records, and not have to wory about external preamps and such. Changing speed is really easy with a direct drive turntable and the LP120 is super easy to use I don't think I need full audiophile quality, as I'm mostly listening to Hip-Hop records. I did look at this option, but TBH, the design of it doesn't do it for me I've done a bit more research and might go for https://www.sydneyhificastlehill.com.au/shop/turntables/music-hall-mmf-2-2-turntable/ and invest in an external preamp. Thoughts?
eltech Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 47 minutes ago, Taz85 said: Maybe later down the track I'll take this path. Once my record collection and budget gets bigger I'll look at going full-audiophile. I don't think I need full audiophile quality, as I'm mostly listening to Hip-Hop records. I did look at this option, but TBH, the design of it doesn't do it for me I've done a bit more research and might go for https://www.sydneyhificastlehill.com.au/shop/turntables/music-hall-mmf-2-2-turntable/ and invest in an external preamp. Thoughts? The cartridge that comes with the mmf is a really nice one. It's really easy to listen to with good balance. It's been sold under various names. Google Goldring Elan and "red Ed cartridge" Otherwise it's a Project made deck with a Project tonearm. If looks do it for you, go for it. It's a competent turntable.
eltech Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Taz85 said: Maybe later down the track I'll take this path. Once my record collection and budget gets bigger I'll look at going full-audiophile. I don't think I need full audiophile quality, as I'm mostly listening to Hip-Hop records. I did look at this option, but TBH, the design of it doesn't do it for me I've done a bit more research and might go for https://www.sydneyhificastlehill.com.au/shop/turntables/music-hall-mmf-2-2-turntable/ and invest in an external preamp. Thoughts? The cartridge that comes with the mmf is a really nice one. It's really easy to listen to with good balance. It's been sold under various names. Google Goldring Elan and "red Ed cartridge" I believe it's made by Nagaoka. Otherwise it's a Project made deck with a Project tonearm. If looks do it for you, go for it. I'm sure it's a competent turntable.
eltech Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 Please Excuse my double post. Let me quote Kraftwerk as I type on my phone......"I'm the operator of my pocket calculator"
ABG Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 "By pressing on a special key it plays a little melody" @Taz85 The MMF is a hassle free way to jump into the world of vinyl and should keep you happy for a good while. As has been said by others, you will get much better bang for your buck buying second hand, but that always comes with a little uncertainty. 1
Luvitloud Posted May 19, 2017 Posted May 19, 2017 @Taz85If your in W.A I have a Project Debut Carbon in black just sitting in its box only played with it for a couple of months before I upgraded Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
rockpig Posted May 20, 2017 Posted May 20, 2017 I see this all too often. "Oh I only want to spend $500 on a turntable blah blah" and then later the buyer realises the TT/cart does not cut it and then buy another TT/cart and flog off the 1st TT. This is a waste of time and money. Just go for something that is much better and it will satisfy you for several years instead of a few months, or worse, turn you off records because they don't sound that good. @Taz85 Says: "I don't think I need full audiophile quality, as I'm mostly listening to Hip-Hop records". Hip hop has some pretty serious bass in the grooves and if you want to hear that bass you need to spend more. I suggest if buying new, go for around $1,500 ($1k for turntable, $500 for cartridge) which will get you a nice TT with a very good cartridge that you will enjoy for many years and will sound better than CDs. Obviously 2nd hand would be less, but you really need to know what you are looking for. 1
eltech Posted May 20, 2017 Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, rockpig said: I see this all too often. "Oh I only want to spend $500 on a turntable blah blah" and then later the buyer realises the TT/cart does not cut it and then buy another TT/cart and flog off the 1st TT. This is a waste of time and money. Just go for something that is much better and it will satisfy you for several years instead of a few months, or worse, turn you off records because they don't sound that good. @Taz85 Says: "I don't think I need full audiophile quality, as I'm mostly listening to Hip-Hop records". Hip hop has some pretty serious bass in the grooves and if you want to hear that bass you need to spend more. I suggest if buying new, go for around $1,500 ($1k for turntable, $500 for cartridge) which will get you a nice TT with a very good cartridge that you will enjoy for many years and will sound better than CDs. Obviously 2nd hand would be less, but you really need to know what you are looking for. I consider myself fairly fussy when it comes to sound. I've had great results with all manner of inexpensive secondhand and new turntables. Part of that success is having an array of cartridges to try on different turntables, and having the experience to know what tweaks will improve the sound. I'm lucky that I've had the opportunity to muck around with turntables, tonearms and cartridges since I was a young teenager. I agree that most people won't have that experience, and if buying new, generally, a more expensive turntable / cartridge/ tonearm will sound better, but, like everything in hifi, it's a case of diminishing returns on outlay. Many sympathetically matched tonearms and cartridges can sound brilliant and play music really well. It's about the music isn't it? A modest system set up well in a room with good accoustics will trounce expensive equipment in a room with terrible accoustics. Everything depends on everything else. As for sounding better than CDs. It's not the format, it's the mastering. I've heard CDs with virtually the same mastering as the record, and in those cases the CD is most definitely clearer and has lower noise obviously. There are many instances where the CD has more top end, and dynamics, which can give a perception of "hard" to listen to. The record being more ear friendly due to dynamic limiting of the high frequencies (the use of de-essers) and summing of low frequency sounds( elliptic filter used before the cutting head) But the CD is probably more truthful to the master stereo mix. What sounds better is up to the individual. I like both records and CDs. 2
rockpig Posted May 20, 2017 Posted May 20, 2017 @eltech Has raised some very important points that I agree with and hopefully all this info will help @Taz85 make a better informed purchasing decision. To make one of my points a bit clearer. If you get a TT/cart that is "so so" it will sound crappy compared to a digital or CD source. Therefore IMHO a novice should seriously consider spending $1.5K on new gear to ensure you get something that is on par or better than digital (depending on your preferred style of sound). OR hopefully act on some trusted recommendations of SNA members on a good 2nd hand rig for less money. If the gear that is extracting the sound from the groove is poor then the rest of the gear in the chain is limited to that level of performance. 36 minutes ago, eltech said: It's about the music isn't it? A modest system set up well in a room with good accoustics will trounce expensive equipment in a room with terrible accoustics. Everything depends on everything else. Agree totally, it is all about the music etc 38 minutes ago, eltech said: As for sounding better than CDs Yeah, did not word that very well and was not advocating vinyl is better that CD or vise versa. That sort of thing is a personal preference and debating which is better is not a valid discussion, just a waste of words. Should not have said "better" than CD, should have been something like "gives you a similar level of sound enjoyment as CD". I have my original old entry level turntable and a really good one. If I pitch the old TT up against my SACD player the TT sounds dreadful. (that experience is what I hope @Taz85 can avoid.) If I pitch the good TT up against my SACD player I will prefer the good TT in majority of direct album comparisons.
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