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GIESELER KONVERTER (DAC/Preamp) Official release.


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Finally it is finished! Sorry for the huge delay but I have had a ton of other things happening over the last six months which caused the delay. OK down to some details. Inputs Digital

Hello everyone, well after waiting for over a year now for Clay's Konverter DAC preamp I finally  came home and their was the box I had been waiting for sitting in the hallway. As you do when som

Hi Guys, I'm rather excited at the moment as I have just finished populating the brand new digital front end PCB for the Konverter. If you look closely you can see some of the ultra low nois


11 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

So Edel DAC 

 

You could sing....

 

EdelDac....EdelDac....every morning you greet me...

Nos & clear...pleasing to the ear...you look happy to see me...

 

Though copy write may be a problem,,, 

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On 3/24/2017 at 5:29 PM, JohnL said:

German Rivers??.............

 

Rhine

Danube

Moselle

Elbe

Wesser

Oder

 

You could have a Klein........... and a Rhine!!!!!

 

Call it "Moselle", and you'd need a cardboard chassis...

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TON-DAC

 

Ton from Clayton, but it also means 'clay' in german! (As well as tone, note, sound, etc.)

 

KON-DAC might not work so well in the market.

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On 2017-3-24 at 2:15 AM, matth said:

Sorry Bill, but this is exactly how I see MQA.

 

Many very knowledgeable people do, including Ted Smith who invented the Direct stream DAC.  Its a perfectly valid responce.

 

But please don't make up your mind until I get my little Explorer 2 to people like Clay, and see what they think.

 

Just waiting for:

1,  Until I get my Macbook and install Audirvna 3.

2.   Mike finishes the high quality audio cable that really lifts the performance of that DAC.

 

The truth will out - in time.

 

I had a bit of a discussion with Ted Smith about this and got me onto an interesting piece of software I have been fooling around with:

https://www.xivero.com/shop/xifeo/

 

Interesting results - for example take 2xDSD which is considered pretty good high res - you can get some from here:

http://www.2l.no/hires/

 

Convert it to DXD, run it through the software, first at DXD to get the maximum frequency.and use it to find the maximum frequency of actual music.  I ran Jan Gunnar Hoff - LIVING through it and its maximum frequency was a bit below 30k.  Then convert it to the the sampling rate that contains the maximum frequency - I chose 176khz to be really safe and counted on the compression algorithm to take care of redundancy.  Then run it through Optimfrog lossless compression which is a lot more efficient than FLAC - its amazing how small a file you get - it went from 375mb to 55mb (flac was 75mb).   That's about the same as MQA.  Interestingly at 88khz sampling it was  53.3  (Flac was 71mb) so the sampling frequency when you remove frequencies above actual content doesn't seem to make much difference.  You could probably do it at DXD - it wouldn't really matter.

 

So whats the bottom line other than being something interesting to do - yes - MQA is quite likely some marketing cynicism rather than an actual advance - drats - still  it does sound better.

 

Thanks

Bill  

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1 minute ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Struggling to understand this bit ...

 

Simpy that they confirm MQA does sound better.  I think it does, Mike thinks it does, but the more the merrier I say.

 

What  the whole post above was saying is there are many ways to skin a cat, MQA is not the only way to drastically reduce the size of Hi-Rez files.  But it is being pushed hard by companies like meridian with a lot of commercial clout.

 

But can we take discussion of this to elsewhere than this thread which isn't really about MQA.

 

Don't worry Clay is well aware of it and will ensure he Konverter keeps up with the latest trends once it has greater market penetration - its very early MQA days yet and you can already feed it from Tidal anyway - Clays DAC sounds great that way,

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

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Just now, bhobba said:

 

Simpy that they confirm MQA does sound better.  I think it does, Mike thinks it does, but the more the merrier I say.

 

What  the whole post above was saying is there are many ways to skin a cat, MQA is not the only way to drastically reduce the size of Hi-Rez files.  But it is being pushed hard by companies like meridian with a lot of commercial clout.

 

But can we take discussion of this to elsewhere than this thread which isn't really about MQA.

 

Don't worry Clay is well aware of it and will ensure he Konverter keeps up with the latest trends once it has greater market penetration - its very early MQA days yet and you can already feed it from Tidal anyway - Clays DAC sounds great that way,

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

 

so you are suggesting that before @matth makes up his own mind he should wait until you get your Explorer thingie to Clay so that you and Clay and Mike can decide for him?

 

I'm sure that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounded.

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Just now, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

I'm sure that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounded.

 

Of course not.

 

He should make up his own mind - but the more people that confirm by direct litening it does sound better obviously it will help in deciding - is this just commercial BS or not.

 

I now think its commercial BS in the sense its a breakthrough -  it can be achieved in other ways -  but it does sound better.

 

Thanks

Bill

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@bhobba

Bill,

it does not matter for me if MQA sounds better than Redbook.

I made up my mind: MQA is per se UNRIGHTEOUS, so I do not want to support it in any way.

BTW, I do not want to buy a Gieseler DAC with a MQA hardware solution implemented.

Period.

 

Matt

Edited by matth
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  • 4 weeks later...

Word on the street is that the first units are very, VERY close to being released into the wild...

 

Who's going to get theirs first? Time will tell :):)

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Just now, ~Spyne~ said:

Word on the street is that the first units are very, VERY close to being released into the wild...

 

Who's going to get theirs first? Time will tell :):)

If I were a betting man............................

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7 minutes ago, ~Spyne~ said:

58fd876dbbd7b_20170424_150159(Custom).jpg.b837540a6a113f140b847c3eabe846a7.jpg

Show off.

Though I did have SN0001 of Clay's PSU so I know what it feels to be a member of an exclusive and very cool club. :P

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Show off.
Though I did have SN0001 of Clay's PSU so I know what it feels to be a member of an exclusive and very cool club. [emoji14]

I definitely don't have any 0001s, but my klein DAC is no 69... [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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11 minutes ago, Wiffle said:


I definitely don't have any 0001s, but my klein DAC is no 69... emoji3.png

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
 

Wink wink. Say no more.

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Just in case anyone missed it.

An interesting article as to why Linn Audio picked the AK4497EQ chip for their new Klimax DS network music players.

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/featured/audiomarketvoices/linn/interview/?link_id=link972

The Klimax sells for 15,800 pounds in the UK.

The Konverter uses the same DAC chip.

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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6 minutes ago, Cardiiiii said:

Will this be available in a DAC only version?

I think that's the Klein II dac init?

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Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

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13 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

Sorry, spoke out of turn!

Emma chezit?

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7 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

....and if we could just add an option for streaming (Roon endpoint, etc), like a built-in micro rendu  style unit, then we're in business!!  I recall some discussion re this?  Well done Clay!

Edited by Mat-with-one-t
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2 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Joe,

yes it will look like a smaller version of the Konverter.

 

Hi Mat,

sounds like a good plan - will look into it.

Perhaps you could save a bit of effort and use the same case as the pre? You could perhaps use the extra real estate for the streaming section?  Or would the lot all fit?  That way you could offer:

1. One with the lot (pre, dac, streamer)

2. Dac and streamer

3. Dac only

and use the same case for all of them....?

Woukd make for easy upgrade/sidegrades down the track too...

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8 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

O Dear ......... I had better start saving ............. again ........... siggghhh ........ :)

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Perhaps you could save a bit of effort and use the same case as the pre? You could perhaps use the extra real estate for the streaming section?  Or would the lot all fit?  That way you could offer:
1. One with the lot (pre, dac, streamer)
2. Dac and streamer
3. Dac only
and use the same case for all of them....?
Woukd make for easy upgrade/sidegrades down the track too...

I think sharing casings is a great idea if possible, but imho the Konverter casing looks lightyears ahead of the klein/etc casing. I'm not complaining at all re the current casing, just saying how much nicer the new one is. :-)

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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On 2/22/2017 at 1:08 PM, bhobba said:

 

Yes - good point.

 

I will qualify this - the future of streaming audio.

 

I listen to Tidal pretty much exclusively these days due to it has everything I ever listen to including new releases.  All for just $20pm.

 

The issue is quality.  I give the order as follows from a number of experiments I have done:

 

1.  Lowest quality - normal Tidal.  Despite that its what I use since its still very listenable.

2.  On disk, usb drive etc.   Better - but not as convenient and you have to buy it or put your little pirate hat on.

3.  Streamed MQA - best of all.   Gradually Tidal is converting everything to MQA - it has over 1000 albums now and growing. Warner Brothers are converting everything over, Universal just agreed and now the only holdout is Sony - but how long before it agrees - doubtful it will be long, it will likely eventually come on board, but we will see.

 

Now as to quality compared to other formats - even DXD and 4XDSD - see the following and judge for yourself:

http://www.2l.no/hires/

 

Here is what one person thought:

http://www.2l.no/hires/documentation/2L-MQA_Comparisons.pdf

 

That's correct - better than DXD.

 

I can feel a GTG comming on.

 

BTW Clay is fully aware of all of this and will 100% for sure be looking at incorporating it in future products.   But as I said - its early days yet in the MQA 'revolution' if it happens - many a slip between lip and cup - so exactly what eventuates is anyone's guess.

 

What I can say 100% for sure is 96k MQA from the Tidal application sounds glorious through Clays new DAC - I have heard it.

 

Thanks

Bill


How did you get 96k MQA into the non-MQA DAC? 
When I try it this using Tidal Masters tracks via Tidal app on Windows to a non-MQA DAC via USB, the DACs just show the normal rate. Is a Bluesound Node 2 streamer (i.e. an MQA compliant streamer) the solution to this? 

 

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16 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

 

I like the idea to make the DAC only version in Konverter style but smaller. 

This is the way to go!

 

For all those looking for a streaming option:

 

AFAIK designing-from-scratch an interface like Microrendu or SMS-200 for the Gieseler DAC is VERY time consuming for hardware AND software. So in my view the best would be to buy the upcoming Gieseler DAC only plus a Microrendu or SMS-200.

 

Matt

Edited by matth
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2 hours ago, matth said:

 

I like the idea to make the DAC only version in Konverter style but smaller. 

This is the way to go!

 

For all those looking for a streaming option:

 

AFAIK designing-from-scratch an interface like Microrendu or SMS-200 for the Gieseler DAC is VERY time consuming for hardware AND software. So in my view the best would be to buy the upcoming Gieseler DAC only plus a Microrendu or SMS-200.

 

Matt

That seems fair enough.  That was actually what I was getting at - using a pre-existent solution.  I wonder if Clay could approach these guys about a bulk/open ended order for their product for inclusion in the dac?  Would be a nice neat option to stick it in the case with a plug at the back, and maybe power it off a Clay psu?

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