roh008 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Hi All, what do people do to combat loss of low frequency sounds when listening at lower levels. Some integrated amps used to have a 'variable loudness' function. Any ideas what can be done these days? For now I'm playing with JRiver EQ to try and get a fuller sound at lower listening levels. I'm currently not running my sub for music. Roh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Do current Yamaha stereo amps have the yammie loudness function? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Accuphase still have the loudness feature plus tone controls which can achieve the same Just ignore the loudness and tone control haters that will tell you it's the end of the world. If YOU like it then great. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 Accuphase still have the loudness feature plus tone controls which can achieve the same Just ignore the loudness and tone control haters that will tell you it's the end of the world. If YOU like it then great. hehe i do ignore them..I rely on the fact that if I am not listening at the level the music was referenced at then i'll effectively will not be hearing the lower frequency parts, so I do need to tweak something to compensate for this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 For now I'm playing with JRiver EQ to try and get a fuller sound at lower listening levels. Why not go one better and use JRiver's loudness function? Albeit you need to engage it's internal digital volume control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Why not go one better and use JRiver's loudness function? Albeit you need to engage it's internal digital volume control. ahah - i thought JRiver should have something like this. Is it Zone dependent. I want my zone (USB output) to have it as it is for music. Where are my other zone is for Movies. Where is that function hidden? I see adaptive volume, but that seems to reduce dynamic range too? Does the variable loudness function on integrated amps also reduce dynamic range? Edited April 16, 2016 by roh008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 Found it by clicking on the volume button and setting internal volume then loudness. Will need to re-program my Logitech Remote to change the volume of JRiver not my amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Why not go one better and use JRiver's loudness function? Albeit you need to engage it's internal digital volume control. Beat me to it. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76608.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 @@Satanica have you tried using JRiver pink noise for adjusting the amp volume so at the listening position pink noise measures 83dB? It gets bloody loud! However, if you then trim the volume back to an enjoyable level using JRiver with 'loudness' enabled on it actually sounds great?! I'll play with it some more as the volume levels at reference is no way near the correct volume! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) @@Satanica have you tried using JRiver pink noise for adjusting the amp volume so at the listening position pink noise measures 83dB? It gets bloody loud! However, if you then trim the volume back to an enjoyable level using JRiver with 'loudness' enabled on it actually sounds great?! No I have not, but I should stop being lazy and just do it. With the pink noise measurement you can then set the Internal Volume Reference Level setting appropriately. Edited April 16, 2016 by Satanica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 No I have not, but I should stop being lazy and just do it. With the pink noise measurement you can then set the Internal Volume Reference Level setting appropriately. for now I set the internal reference volume at 100% so as soon as I go below 100% it applies the 'loudness' algorithm. It makes changes on the fly so I have been playing around at lower percentages to see what the overall impact is. For now - loudness is staying for low leveling listening pleasure! Thanks for the pointer! Now I need to decide if I want to use volume leveling and adaptive volume...hmm decisions decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator2310 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I listen at (comparitively) low levels - the loudness switches on my old sansuis are magic. Especially running a pair of old and relatively inefficient speakers. They are all 50 wpc (theoretically) AU 217mkii , 317 and 5900 but they all perform very differently - and of course there's a sudden threshold where if I want them to throw a bit more sound where it can scare the living daylights out of me especially the AU5900 - but they did a great job with the loudness function on those old amps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 for now I set the internal reference volume at 100% so as soon as I go below 100% it applies the 'loudness' algorithm. It makes changes on the fly so I have been playing around at lower percentages to see what the overall impact is. For now - loudness is staying for low leveling listening pleasure! Thanks for the pointer! Now I need to decide if I want to use volume leveling and adaptive volume...hmm decisions decisions I have Adaptive volume and Volume Levelling off because I don't really find them useful. Do you use any of the remote apps for hand held devices? There is Gizmo and eos (my favourite) which can adjust volume. There is also JRemote but from memory it can't adjust volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Hi All, what do people do to combat loss of low frequency sounds when listening at lower levels. Some integrated amps used to have a 'variable loudness' function. Any ideas what can be done these days? Roh Buy some vintage gear Roh.... Tase 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 I have Adaptive volume and Volume Levelling off because I don't really find them useful. Do you use any of the remote apps for hand held devices? There is Gizmo and eos (my favourite) which can adjust volume. There is also JRemote but from memory it can't adjust volume. I use JRemote. It's (one of) the best apps I've seen for library management regardless of what the computer software is. It can manage volume too and it changes the internal volume so it does also make use of the "loudness" implementation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) Just ignore the loudness and tone control haters that will tell you it's the end of the world. If YOU like it then great. Yeah +1.....and graphic equalizer haters too..... Tase. Edited April 17, 2016 by Tasebass 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 Buy some vintage gear Roh.... Tase I have to admit now that I've managed to implement a similar/better version of what they had I'll stick with what I currently have . The low level listening is great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 @@Satanica Do you adjust your master volume in order to change the amount of EQ that is applied by JRiver? I've found that if I use the pink noise calibration it sets the master volume to high and therefore I run JRiver around 50-70% for loud listening. If I reduce the volume of the amp I can run JRiver at around 80% (it opens up my mids a bit more) which makes sense I guess as they are roughly appling a "v" on the equalizer to compensate for loss of low and high frequency when listening below 'referece' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) JRiver EQ I either use this. Or I can run plugins either on my computer or audio-interface/DAC that can do this. Jriver is neat.... I usually just go a dial in the EQ msyelf though (just a low shelf filter) - as I don't touch the volume knob much. EDIT: ah ... deja vu Edited June 21, 2016 by davewantsmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) @@Satanica Do you adjust your master volume in order to change the amount of EQ that is applied by JRiver? I've found that if I use the pink noise calibration it sets the master volume to high and therefore I run JRiver around 50-70% for loud listening. If I reduce the volume of the amp I can run JRiver at around 80% (it opens up my mids a bit more) which makes sense I guess as they are roughly appling a "v" on the equalizer to compensate for loss of low and high frequency when listening below 'referece'Hi, I'm not quite sure what you're asking but if I describe what I'm doing it might answer your question.I have my digital processor (DEQX) with the analog volume disabled and the digital volume at 100% where it stays. In JRiver the Internal Volume and Loudness are selected. Internal Volume Reference Level is set to 100 and that's a setting in the options not the volume level of JRiver. So the way it works is that adjustedments made to JRiver's volume also changes the loudness EQ . JRiver's Internal Volume is the master volume in my setup. This means Loudness equalisation is always working and I can adjust the volume with either my media center IR remote control or smartphone. Edited June 22, 2016 by Satanica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roh008 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 No I have not, but I should stop being lazy and just do it. With the pink noise measurement you can then set the Internal Volume Reference Level setting appropriately. @@Satanica taking you in circles I had asked you before! Sorry. EDIT: ah ... deja vu Haha - clearly going senile! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 @@Satanica taking you in circles I had asked you before! Sorry. Haha - clearly going senile! No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 My sub has an on/off switch . On at low levels, off at higher levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) My sub has an on/off switch . On at low levels, off at higher levels. Perfectly acceptable 1960's technology. Oh wait we're not in the 60's anymore... Edited June 24, 2016 by Satanica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If you like what the various "loudness" technologies do, they by all means use them. I found they all distorted the music in different ways and I prefer not to use any. Greg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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