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New to turntable. Help me choose one


Bruno28
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So I'm looking to get a turn table to try it out.

I've been offered a Rega P3 with no cartridge and a Project Debut carbon with ortophon red cartridge for the same price of $400.

I got offered a denon dl103r cartridge for $150 to join the Rega. Which is an extra cost I have to consider.

Things to consider:

The Rega is over 8 years old while the project is almost new with only 25 hours.

I woukd like some assistance on which is a better option for the money?

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Edited by Bruno28
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The p3 is the far better TT

While the 103r is a good price depending on hours and condition

It's a low out put moving coil so you need the right phono stage

The entry level decks from project and Rega are a bit basic ppl seem to move them on quite quickly

8 yr old Rega should be fine assuming no maltreatment incurred

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Another vote for the P3, better table and better arm than the entry level Project.

 

The Denon cartridge is a moving coil so you will have to make sure your pre-amp or integrated amp has an input for an mc. A really good and affordable alternative that works really well with Rega tonearms and tables is a Nagaoka MP 11 or its new name the 110.

Edited by Hergest
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I'll add my 2c and play devils advocate  :P

 

While the Debut Carbon is a basic turntable in the scheme of things, it is a couple of rungs up the ladder somewhat in the Project stable. Elemental, Debut 3, Debut Classic all fall underneath the Carbon. I've had my Debut Carbon for about three years now, and it's been faultless, and sounds great with a better cart, cork mat etc. Of course, this is all relative to what you may already have heard in turntables and where your expectations lie.

 

However, as the other gentlemen have stated, the RP3 is a better table and is the one I'd be looking at with the proviso it is in very good condition. It's a table I'm aspiring to myself, and talking to my hifi guy on Friday, he mentioned that the RP3 is being updated soon and also said he would be doing some 30% off deals on old stock soon (no cart), so saving up for a new old stock model RP3 may be an option for you as well. I'm seriously considering it!

Edited by Jebediah
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I'll add my 2c and play devils advocate  :P

 

While the Debut Carbon is a basic turntable in the scheme of things, it is a couple of rungs up the ladder somewhat in the Project stable. Elemental, Debut 3, Debut Classic all fall underneath the Carbon. I've had my Debut Carbon for about three years now, and it's been faultless, and sounds great with a better cart, cork mat etc. Of course, this is all relative to what you may already have heard in turntables and where your expectations lie.

 

However, as the other gentlemen have stated, the RP3 is a better table and is the one I'd be looking at with the proviso it is in very good condition. It's a table I'm aspiring to myself, and talking to my hifi guy on Friday, he mentioned that the RP3 is being updated soon and also said he would be doing some 30% off deals on old stock soon (no cart), so saving up for a new old stock model RP3 may be an option for you as well. I'm seriously considering it!

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would a NAD C165BEE pre amp also work as a phono? So i don't need to get a phono and a pre amp?

 

 

 

I just quickly googled the unit. Seems to come with a reasonable quality mm/mc inbuilt phono stage.

 

Short answer...... No, you don't need to buy a separate phono stage if you buy the NAD.

 

But in the long run, if vinyl works out for you ,a dedicated phono stage would be my suggestion.

 

But.....do you have a Power Amp to use in conjunction with the NAD if you go that route?

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Having made side-by-side comparisons - I would advise you to seriously consider the Debut Carbon.

 

A few issues I consider important - which not many people are aware of:

 

1.  phono cable capacitance

This will have very audible effect on the general tonality and high frequency extension.

The rega's phono cables are hardwired.

It has relatively high capacitance.

The result is truncated high frequency extension at the top end.

The bum at the mid bass area is quite distinctive.

 

2.  Rega's relatively low VTA

Affects high frequency extension.

But you can buy a ring thingy to increase the height of the arm stem

 

3.  Rega's thicker felt mat

This further aggravate the lowish VTA even more

Becomes more acute when playing 180/200g records.

But changing to a thinner mat somehow makes the 'table lose some of its distinctive "magic"

 

4.  The Rega's tonearm can exert a very audible magnetic field interference on the cartridge and tonearm cable that runs through it.

This tend to make soundstaging smaller.

Bass tend to have a heavily "thump" emphasis. 

 

In comparison, the Project might sound lean at first if you immediately switch over from the Rega

But after a short period of settling (your hearing) you might find the Project sounds more tonally balanced throughout its entire spectrum making it more versatile across different genre and recording styles.

High Frequency is definitely more extended.

Its phono cables are detachable and you can swap them out for better shielded, lower capacitance cables.

 

The thing about the project that I don't like is its steel platter.

The magnetic interference on the cartridge will affect soundstaging and timbral character just like the Rega's tonearm.

But you can swap the steel platter out for an acrylic platter later.

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But.....do you have a Power Amp to use in conjunction with the NAD if you go that route?

Yes I do have a power amp. I am using a nad c272 amp.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Edited by Bruno28
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Having made side-by-side comparisons - I would advise you to seriously consider the Debut Carbon.

A few issues I consider important - which not many people are aware of:

1. phono cable capacitance

This will have very audible effect on the general tonality and high frequency extension.

The rega's phono cables are hardwired.

It has relatively high capacitance.

The result is truncated high frequency extension at the top end.

The bum at the mid bass area is quite distinctive.

2. Rega's relatively low VTA

Affects high frequency extension.

But you can buy a ring thingy to increase the height of the arm stem

3. Rega's thicker felt mat

This further aggravate the lowish VTA even more

Becomes more acute when playing 180/200g records.

But changing to a thinner mat somehow makes the 'table lose some of its distinctive "magic"

4. The Rega's tonearm can exert a very audible magnetic field interference on the cartridge and tonearm cable that runs through it.

This tend to make soundstaging smaller.

Bass tend to have a heavily "thump" emphasis.

In comparison, the Project might sound lean at first if you immediately switch over from the Rega

But after a short period of settling (your hearing) you might find the Project sounds more tonally balanced throughout its entire spectrum making it more versatile across different genre and recording styles.

High Frequency is definitely more extended.

Its phono cables are detachable and you can swap them out for better shielded, lower capacitance cables.

The thing about the project that I don't like is its steel platter.

The magnetic interference on the cartridge will affect soundstaging and timbral character just like the Rega's tonearm.

But you can swap the steel platter out for an acrylic platter later.

Wow that's a lot of information. Thanks for sharing. Now you've steered me to the other side hahaha.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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I would advise you to dump everything you heard above this post and just go direct where most people end up>>>LP12

 

Ask here and then Google, as a wanted to buy.

 

Your usually born with two extraneous organs at least, like that second kidney,or those two balls or little toes, bones full of marrow, the annoying bit's of hair on the nape of your neck and litres and litres of blood(you grow heaps of the stuff each month..the gift that keeps on giving!)

Not keen on dumping those extra bits? Well look at a payment plan.

You'll never regret a LP12 but you'll as sure as hell want to get rid of your TT after you hear your first one.

 

Dig deep...go the hard miles.  Enjoy :thumb:

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Can't go to a LP12. The cheapest is $3500.

Keep an eye out for them. I sold one late last year for $1500 and they pop up here every now an again for $2000 or there abouts. It just depends of course on condition and upgrades or lack thereof

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This is not intended to offend or wind up any of the Linn guy's 

 

Linn's are spoken of with reverence ,even by people not in to TT. A base for one was recently on ebay, that it look's like a member has purchased . 

It is the first time I have seen any detailed pictures and for the normal price, it is hard for me to see what all the fuss is about.

Is it the sum of the parts, quality of parts. What am I missing?

 

post-138993-0-26729700-1459735106_thumb.

 

post-138993-0-71989000-1459735141_thumb.

Edited by EVcali
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The name tag means a world to them obviously :P

 

Jokes aside, I wouldn't recommend an LP12 to a newb unless the person recommending is prepared to come around to set it up for the newb.

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This is not intended to offend or wind up any of the Linn guy's 

 

Linn's are spoken of with reverence ,even by people not in to TT. A base for one was recently on ebay, that it look's like a member has purchased . 

It is the first time I have seen any detailed pictures and for the normal price, it is hard for me to see what all the fuss is about.

Is it the sum of the parts, quality of parts. What am I missing?

 

 

I agree that looking at the individual components of an LP12 it would be hard to see what the fuss is about it really shouldn't sound as good as it does. Listen to a properly setup LP12 you will soon hear what the fuss is all about.

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Just get a vintage Japanese direct drive TT , technics, sansui, aiwa, Sony, pioneer, kenwood, etc, etc.  Just change the cartridge to something newer with P-mount -which most of them had and you won't regret.  These beasts last decades and do not cost all that much.  A couple of hundred dollars should do it.  Plenty on eBay and gumtree.  If you buy a belt drive, ensure it has a new belt - you can usually source these on eBay.  I would find it difficult to justify spending thousands on a TT.

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Hi mate,

I have an LP-12, 4x technics SL1200/1210's, thorens TD150, Sony PS2500 and a few others. I love the sound from all of them. You can make most tt's sound great with some tweaking. If you are just getting into vinyl I would suggest going for second hand Japanese as mentioned above or go with your original plan of the Rega/pro-Ject. For me half the fun of vinyl is the journey and discovery. And who says you will sell your first TT just because you buy another. I have 10 and plenty of ppl on here have crap loads more :)

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